Advice please: son doesn't want to wear HAs

[deafdyke]

OK, I think I took your post a bit differently Please disregard my earlier take on it.

No offense FJ, but, now I'm a little bit confused about what you mean. I guess I think that SOME deaf kids can hear and understand teacher and classmates in a mainstream classroom, though definitely not perfectly, but not most, not even with a super HA or CI. I think my kid is doing brilliantly with her CIs, but still, I don't think she hears (or learns) in the same exact way as a hearing child and so I really prefer that my child is learning in the very tailored environment of 4-5 kids and 2 teachers that she's in rather than among 28 kids in a noisy classroom.

Yes FJ. There are superstars, but you have to understand that there have ALWAYS been a significent number of superstars who thrive with very minimal accomodnations. Even back in the old days, in the 40's and 50's.The CI is amazing.........but as jillo says they only represent a small minority of dhh kids...AND you'll see implanted kids in ALL sorts of Deaf Ed placements, from Clarke style to Deaf School (even at TLC they have implanted kids!) to regional dhh programs.

 

[DeafCaroline]

The second sentence is what some people THINK that parents of children with CI say.. In reality, parents of children with CI will not say that..
For myself. The sentence "My daughter was born deaf, now she can hear." says it all..
Because.. You can hear when you are "hard of hearing".

And now she can hear...partially. More truthful to say that she can hear partially than just "she can hear". If you tell hearing people that, they will assume you mean she can hear fluently and that's how misunderstandings about CIs spread.

Maybe it's hard for you to understand but from the deaf person's point of view, hearing is never perfect, it's always partial if they are able to get any hearing from auditory devices. I wear HAs and with them, I can pick up vowels in one's speech, not consonants and I require lipreading to understand the gist of what they're saying. If people ask me if I can hear with my HAs, I dont say "yes, I can hear."

Never. It's the worst thing to tell them for they leap to conclusions that I can hear well with HAs. Instead, I explain that I can hear vowels, not consonants. I never ever ever just say "I can hear" for it's not truthful and it would lead to more misunderstandings and false assumptions.

To give you a better understanding of why when you say "with HAs or CIs, she can hear" we don't accept that as is - try wearing ear plugs then sitting down with your family and have a conversation with them. Guaranteed when someone asks you if you can hear them, you're not going to say "yes, I can hear you." No no no, you are going to say "I can hear you but not that well."



Like Jazzberry said - is it really so hard to say "with CIs, she can hear most sounds" - ?

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

The second sentence is what some people THINK that parents of children with CI say.. In reality, parents of children with CI will not say that..
For myself. The sentence "My daughter was born deaf, now she can hear." says it all..
Because.. You can hear when you are "hard of hearing".

And now she can hear...partially. More truthful to say that she can hear partially than just "she can hear". If you tell hearing people that, they will assume you mean she can hear fluently and that's how misunderstandings about CIs spread.

Maybe it's hard for you to understand but from the deaf person's point of view, hearing is never perfect, it's always partial if they are able to get any hearing from auditory devices. I wear HAs and with them, I can pick up vowels in one's speech, not consonants and I require lipreading to understand the gist of what they're saying. If people ask me if I can hear with my HAs, I dont say "yes, I can hear."

Never. It's the worst thing to tell them for they leap to conclusions that I can hear well with HAs. Instead, I explain that I can hear vowels, not consonants. I never ever ever just say "I can hear" for it's not truthful and it would lead to more misunderstandings and false assumptions.

To give you a better understanding of why when you say "with HAs or CIs, she can hear" we don't accept that as is - try wearing ear plugs then sitting down with your family and have a conversation with them. Guaranteed when someone asks you if you can hear them, you're not going to say "yes, I can hear you." No no no, you are going to say "I can hear you but not that well."



Like Jazzberry said - is it really so hard to say "with CIs, she can hear most sounds" - ?

they can not hear perfectly, true, but in my experience most hear well enough to understand running spoken language without lipreading. If that doesn't qualify as "hearing" i don't know what does.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Wirelessly posted



they can not hear perfectly, true, but in my experience most hear well enough to understand running spoken language without lipreading. If that doesn't qualify as "hearing" i don't know what does.

It does qualify as hearing but not perfect hearing. And it's important to point that out instead of omitting it because whatever they are not hearing affects them more than what they CAN hear.

If they are so successful at hearing and they are doing so well, then why are you and other CI parents bending over backwards to ensure your kids have accommodations and services and specialized education and AV therapy? because they can hear...partially.

you're saying most deaf kids with HAs and CIs can hear well enough to hear without lipreading? Or most CI kids?

It's very clear and obvious when reading posts from hearing parents of CI kids that they just think about how well their own kids are doing and assume it must be so for all deaf kids who have some hearing with auditory devices. And that when they read of not so successful cases, they dismiss it as rare and therefore irrelevant.

And here we are, telling you no, it's not so rare, and some of those people telling you have CIs too and you brush it off as irrelevant or false or "unlikely" or "doubtful" or "well, it's not the case for MY child."

 

[Daredevel7]

How about "My child can hear well enough"?

I personally don't think it's that hard.....

I don't think the issue is being able to refrain from saying "My child can hear.", but rather that it's already been said MANY times, so they can't take it back. Hence, that's why I think there is a lot of defending going on in this thread.

I think everything has been said (mostly in a civil way, yay!) about why the statement "My child can hear." is an issue, and really, there's nothing else we can do. Anyone can do what they want. We can only hope that they can take our reasoning to heart.

 

[Cloggy]

And now she can hear...partially. More truthful to say that she can hear partially than just "she can hear". If you tell hearing people that, they will assume you mean she can hear fluently and that's how misunderstandings about CIs spread.

no.. She hears.. More than partially.

Maybe it's hard for you to understand but from the deaf person's point of view, hearing is never perfect, it's always partial if they are able to get any hearing from auditory devices. I wear HAs and with them, I can pick up vowels in one's speech, not consonants and I require lipreading to understand the gist of what they're saying. If people ask me if I can hear with my HAs, I dont say "yes, I can hear."

If you put it like that, then children with CI that most parents are talking about here are hearing.. But I think most deaf posters hear will disagree with you..

Never. It's the worst thing to tell them for they leap to conclusions that I can hear well with HAs. Instead, I explain that I can hear vowels, not consonants. I never ever ever just say "I can hear" for it's not truthful and it would lead to more misunderstandings and false assumptions.

To give you a better understanding of why when you say "with HAs or CIs, she can hear" we don't accept that as is - try wearing ear plugs then sitting down with your family and have a conversation with them. Guaranteed when someone asks you if you can hear them, you're not going to say "yes, I can hear you." No no no, you are going to say "I can hear you but not that well."

To give you a better understanding of how much Lotte hears.. She hears and understands the conversation that the family has.. Even if it's not directed to her..

Like Jazzberry said - is it really so hard to say "with CIs, she can hear most sounds" - ?

that would be downplaying reality.. Just because people don't like to hear how well Lotte hears, is not a reason to cover it up.. We tell it as it is...

 

[Jazzberry]

<snip>

that would be downplaying reality.. Just because people don't like to hear how well Lotte hears, is not a reason to cover it up.. We tell it as it is...

As long as you are requesting your school system to accomodate your daughter's special needs, it is only logical to be clear about her hearing status.

If your daughter can hear, than why did her school system install a sound field system? (Mentioned upthread.)

It's because in some situations your daughter has the equivalency of a hearing loss. Luckily your school system understands that even though the way you communicate about her hearing status is not clear.

Perhaps the Norwegian language is different, but in American English when someone says that "John can hear" without any furthur remarks, the assumption is that John's hearing is statistically normal and that he needs no help or assistance in any area that uses the hearing sense.

If John in fact has a CI, it is really not in John's interest to have most people believe that.

 

[DeafCaroline]

no.. She hears.. More than partially.

Oh, so she can hear perfectly? Less than perfect, she has partial hearing. It's a fact.

Originally Posted by DeafCaroline View Post
Maybe it's hard for you to understand but from the deaf person's point of view, hearing is never perfect, it's always partial if they are able to get any hearing from auditory devices. I wear HAs and with them, I can pick up vowels in one's speech, not consonants and I require lipreading to understand the gist of what they're saying. If people ask me if I can hear with my HAs, I dont say "yes, I can hear."

If you put it like that, then children with CI that most parents are talking about here are hearing.. But I think most deaf posters hear will disagree with you..[/QUOTE]

Groan. You have one of the worst cases of denial I've ever seen in a hearing parent. If you want to think CIs give you perfect hearing, not partial and spread that nontruth, whatever.

To give you a better understanding of how much Lotte hears.. She hears and understands the conversation that the family has.. Even if it's not directed to her..

that would be downplaying reality.. Just because people don't like to hear how well Lotte hears, is not a reason to cover it up.. We tell it as it is...

And yet you do everything you can to make sure she has every accommodaton and service as if she does not hear that successfully. Hmm. Sounds to me like you're downplaying the reality that despite her CIs she's still not a hearing person.

 

[DeafCaroline]

As long as you are requesting your school system to accomodate your daughter's special needs, it is only logical to be clear about her hearing status.

If your daughter can hear, than why did her school system install a sound field system?

Exactly. Wake up and the smell the deafness.

 

[Jazzberry]

Exactly. Wake up and the smell the deafness.

That made me laugh! You owe me a new keyboard.

ETA: Seriously, well put.

 

[DeafCaroline]

That made me laugh! You owe me a new keyboard.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



they can not hear perfectly, true, but in my experience most hear well enough to understand running spoken language without lipreading. If that doesn't qualify as "hearing" i don't know what does.

It does qualify as hearing but not perfect hearing. And it's important to point that out instead of omitting it because whatever they are not hearing affects them more than what they CAN hear.

If they are so successful at hearing and they are doing so well, then why are you and other CI parents bending over backwards to ensure your kids have accommodations and services and specialized education and AV therapy? because they can hear...partially.

you're saying most deaf kids with HAs and CIs can hear well enough to hear without lipreading? Or most CI kids?

It's very clear and obvious when reading posts from hearing parents of CI kids that they just think about how well their own kids are doing and assume it must be so for all deaf kids who have some hearing with auditory devices. And that when they read of not so successful cases, they dismiss it as rare and therefore irrelevant.

And here we are, telling you no, it's not so rare, and some of those people telling you have CIs too and you brush it off as irrelevant or false or "unlikely" or "doubtful" or "well, it's not the case for MY child."

av therapy teaches them how to hear and then helps with language. Most CI kids have never heard before, so they have to learn how to use the sense they didn't have before. They also missed out on the language for whatever time they were without the implant. But the truth is, the access from the implant is good enough that many people who heard before don't do therapy, because speech becomes clear to them very quickly. I also know of kids that have never had that kind of therapy and hear and understand speech.

i choose not to mainstream my child for many reasons, but those who do, and follow a strict AV philosophy have WAY more studies and lit. To back them up than i do.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Wirelessly posted



av therapy teaches them how to hear and then helps with language. Most CI kids have never heard before, so they have to learn how to use the sense they didn't have before. They also missed out on the language for whatever time they were without the implant. But the truth is, the access from the implant is good enough that many people who heard before don't do therapy, because speech becomes clear to them very quickly. I also know of kids that have never had that kind of therapy and hear and understand speech.

i choose not to mainstream my child for many reasons, but those who do, and follow a strict AV philosophy have WAY more studies and lit. To back them up than i do.

ok. so your child has enough access from her implant not to require any additional help with her comprehension of speech nor does she require any additional help in oral classrooms?

If you said to me, "my child can hear so well with her CI that she never required any additional help, therapy, services and/or accommodations and as such, she functions like a hearing person" - I wouldn't argue with you.

But you can't say "my child with CIs functions like a hearing person just fine" then admit that she does need additional help that hearing people don't.

Just be more honest and we'll stop giving you such a hard time.

 

[Cloggy]

It does qualify as hearing but not perfect hearing. And it's important to point that out instead of omitting it because whatever they are not hearing affects them more than what they CAN hear.

If they are so successful at hearing and they are doing so well, then why are you and other CI parents bending over backwards to ensure your kids have accommodations and services and specialized education and AV therapy? because they can hear...partially.

because they need to catch up with hearing, and the sooner they catch up the better..That's why..

you're saying most deaf kids with HAs and CIs can hear well enough to hear without lipreading? Or most CI kids?

even hearing people read lips. (mcgurk effect sp.?). Lotte can get a long way (see blog) but we can have long conversations from room to room. She does not need to rely on lipreading. and Lotte is not special with that..

It's very clear and obvious when reading posts from hearing parents of CI kids that they just think about how well their own kids are doing and assume it must be so for all deaf kids who have some hearing with auditory devices. And that when they read of not so successful cases, they dismiss it as rare and therefore irrelevant.

not dismiss. But obviously the focus is on the positive results.. Have you noticed that the negative experience come from older deaf people. People that not or hardly heard before and then tried CI. Do you see a connection between parents that see how well CI works for their children, and late CI users that are disappointed.. Sure there are children where the results are not as expected. Bt there are also deaf people that love their CI.. What if you you would look at deaf people vs Deaf people.. There are many factors.. But the younger the children, the better the outcome..

And here we are, telling you no, it's not so rare, and some of those people telling you have CIs too and you brush it off as irrelevant or false or "unlikely" or "doubtful" or "well, it's not the case for MY child."

Exactly.. They say "it is not like this with me.." while we say "it is like this for our child..". Guess there is brushing aside on both fronts....

 

[DeafCaroline]

Honestly? I'm glad your daughter is doing well and I'm glad you love her so much that you would do whatever you could for her. I say this in all sincerity.

It's YOU and your inability to register what we are trying to tell you which is that no, your child is NOT hearing. She is functionally HOH. It's as if it means so much to you that your child can hear that any suggestion that she is actually not a hearing person makes you bury your head in the sand and argue over the smallest things just to make us wrong and you right so you can feel better and your beliefs remain justified.

anyhoo. i'm done.

 

[sallylou]

Wirelessly posted (droid)

Life is not a race. Life is not a monoply game in which the one with the most at the end wins.

 

[GrendelQ]

I don't think it would make sense to say that my child hears "partly" or that CIs have made her 'hard of hearing.'

My child is deaf, with or without CIs. If I'm explaining anything about her deafness or her CIs or communication methods to a hearing person, bringing up "hard of hearing" isn't going to clarify anything: no one knows what that means. There's not even agreement here on AD among people who know hearing loss intimately. To the man on the street, saying you are hard of hearing pretty much means 'speak up, I can't hear in noise.'

Hearing is not on/off, there or not there. Very few people have no residual hearing at all. It's a matter of degree that we measure by db level, not by the quality of the sound. By the measurement we use for accessing sound, my daughter does so within the 'normal' range. If I went around saying she has partial hearing or is HOH, people would speak VERY loudly to her, simplify their conversation to the basics, and over-enunciate, and it would be just as annoying to her as that is to you and me.

The whole point of bringing it up to someone like a bus driver is so they know that communicating with her requires no special effort and that they need to be interacting with her. I want the bus driver to let her know what's going on, if there's a problem, to establish a relationship.

If I'm talking with a teacher, on the other hand, then I am going to discuss this at a more granular level, because she IS going to have to interact differently -- deaf kids learn differently, the classroom environment poses challenges the bus doesn't.

 

[GrendelQ]

Honestly? I'm glad your daughter is doing well and I'm glad you love her so much that you would do whatever you could for her. I say this in all sincerity.

It's YOU and your inability to register what we are trying to tell you which is that no, your child is NOT hearing. She is functionally HOH. It's as if it means so much to you that your child can hear that any suggestion that she is actually not a hearing person makes you bury your head in the sand and argue over the smallest things just to make us wrong and you right so you can feel better and your beliefs remain justified.

anyhoo. i'm done.

What does "functionally HOH" mean to you? And how is that different from "functionally deaf" or "functionally hearing" or "functionally hearing impaired"? Or any of those without the word "functionally"?

 

[DeafCaroline]

Functionally HOH means when a deaf child wears an auditory device that gives them some degree of hearing, then they are hearing but as HOH.

Like for example, technically, i'm deaf. Without my hearing aids, i'm stone deaf but with them, I'm functioning as a hard of hearing person. Hence functionally HOH.

Just like your daughter is functionally HOH in a classroom.

 

[posts from hell]

What does "functionally HOH" mean to you? And how is that different from "functionally deaf" or "functionally hearing" or "functionally hearing impaired"? Or any of those without the word "functionally"?

Are you also going to argue prelingually deaf?

If not............ There's the door.