Advice please: son doesn't want to wear HAs

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

i said that they "absolutely CAN hear", not that they can hear absolutely everything. Of course they can't hear everything. But they can and do understand teachers and peers, to say otherwise is disingenious. Of course i am not saying that they hear perfectly, that is not what i wrote.

 

[Daredevel7]

The word "hear" implies hear perfectly.

Kinda like asking "Can you see now?" for someone trying to adjust the antenna for the TV. (Okay, Im old) You don't say "Yes, I can see!" when you BARELY can see the show through the fuzz. You wait till it's perfect or near perfect....

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Absolutely. I don't think that FJ thinks that most deaf kids (especially those with CIs) can absolutely hear and understand their teachers and peers. Hasn't she been fighting first for interpreters and then accommodations and placing her child in a deaf school for years? Hasn't she had endless battles with school admins who assumed exactly that, that with an HA or CI there should be no need for other accommodations for deaf kids? Hasn't she been an advocate for ASL, making it her daughter's primary language (and only language for the first 5 years)?

Just the use of "absolutely" alone should be a tip off to the irony, even if you aren't familiar with her position. Her statement was tongue in cheek. But then, that's just the way I read it. Take a look at it in context.

Wirelessly posted



the reason i said what i did is because people keep saying it is impossible. I was responding to a post that said that a deaf child sitting in a room where spoken language is used can not hear what is being said. That is untrue. Many deaf kids, especially those with implants can hear and understand spoken language.

they are not hearing. They do not hear everything. But speech processors and the implant are designed to process spoken language. So that is what they hear best.

See... told you it wasn't looking good, Grendel....

I DO agree with you, FJ, in the sense that there are definitely deaf kids who do hear and understand spoken language. But, of course, it is rarely on par with hearing people.

However, you said MOST deaf kids in the other post. Which is definitely not true. That wasn't a good thing. Just wanted to point that out, but not going to focus on it because I hate debating over words/semantics.

i can respectfully disagree with you on what percentage of deaf kids can understand spoken language. i tend to see the successful ones because of the programs i have chosen for my child, i admit that.

the only reason i said what i said was because the person i was responding to had JUST claimed it wasn't possible. I was reacting.
i never ever claimed that they hears like hearing kids, and i never claimed it was all. I know that kids with CIs need accomidations. They will never have typical hearing no matter how well they do with it. That is why i am not an advocate for mainstreaming ESPECIALLY without real accomidations.

 

[GrendelQ]

Not as much as offensive as much as annoying to me.

What is the purpose of a parent repeatedly simply saying "She can see" for her daughter who has tunnel vision? How does it help anyone? It doesn't.

Now if you are talking about their capabilities SPECIFICALLY in order to describe their condition. i.e. "She can see the center of her vision, so she has to move her head towards the center of the object of what she wants to see." That is a different matter.

But... I really don't understand the point of trying to be factually correct, especially when it doesn't help anything.

"Deaf people can't hear"
"OH OH No no, technically, they CAN hear, especially with CIs."

It simply gives people an illusion.

Well, we had a new van driver this week when Li started kindergarten -- she's had the same one for the past two years at this school, so that was a big deal . While buckling Li in, I asked about the language the other kids would be using (they were 2nd graders, both transfers from a TC school) and if the driver knew sign -- she did, a bit. And I mentioned that Li is ASL-fluent and that she also 'hears' with her CIs, and the driver could feel comfortable talking at a normal volume with her even when faced forward and out of sight.

Similarly, I'll tell people she can 'hear' with her CIs if the fact that she's deaf comes up, and they seem confused about how to or if they'll be able to communicate.

I don't think I'm building an illusion. I'm not saying 'hallelujah, she's no longer deaf! (as long as her batteries hold up)' I'm just saying that she's deaf, no sound without these tools, her CIs. She's fluent in ASL (but too rarely encounter those who are comfortable using ASL), and she can 'hear' you speaking just fine, as long as her CIs are on. I'd tend to use "she has access to sounds" with those who have a stronger grasp of deafness or hearing technology, but I'll shortcut it with most people who have no idea that a cochlear implant exists.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

most CI kids don't even lipread.

really?

alright let me qualify what i mean by "a ci kid". To me that means a child with only a hearing loss, id'ed and implanted in very early childhood with appropriate follow up.

of course there are kids that fall outside that range, and those outcomes are much more varied.

but i do think the average kid receiving an implant in the last 5-!0 years and on into the future will be exactly that.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

The word "hear" implies hear perfectly.

Kinda like asking "Can you see now?" for someone trying to adjust the antenna. (Okay, Im old) You don't say "Yes, I can see!" when you BARELY can see the show through the fuzz. You wait till it's perfect or near perfect....

see, i wouldn't say that in that situation either! I would say "yeah, oh wait that's better" and then finally "perfect!"

maybe i'm weird

 

[Jiro]

alright let me qualify what i mean by "a ci kid". To me that means a child with only a hearing loss, id'ed and implanted in very early childhood with appropriate follow up.

of course there are kids that fall outside that range, and those outcomes are much more varied.

but i do think the average kid receiving an implant in the last 5-!0 years and on into the future will be exactly that.

ah.... you THINK... so your previous post is not a fact.

btw - let's get this right. you are not clarifying. you are correcting your previous post.

 

[GrendelQ]

Wirelessly posted

i said that they "absolutely CAN hear", not that they can hear absolutely everything. Of course they can't hear everything. But they can and do understand teachers and peers, to say otherwise is disingenious. Of course i am not saying that they hear perfectly, that is not what i wrote.

OK, I think I took your post a bit differently

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Not as much as offensive as much as annoying to me.

What is the purpose of a parent repeatedly simply saying "She can see" for her daughter who has tunnel vision? How does it help anyone? It doesn't.

Now if you are talking about their capabilities SPECIFICALLY in order to describe their condition. i.e. "She can see the center of her vision, so she has to move her head towards the center of the object of what she wants to see." That is a different matter.

But... I really don't understand the point of trying to be factually correct, especially when it doesn't help anything.

"Deaf people can't hear"
"OH OH No no, technically, they CAN hear, especially with CIs."

It simply gives people an illusion.

Well, we had a new van driver this week when Li started kindergarten -- she's had the same one for the past two years at this school, so that was a big deal . While buckling Li in, I asked about the language the other kids would be using (they were 2nd graders, both transfers from a TC school) and if the driver knew sign -- she did, a bit. And I mentioned that Li is ASL-fluent and that she also 'hears' with her CIs, and the driver could feel comfortable talking at a normal volume with her even when faced forward and out of sight.

Similarly, I'll tell people she can 'hear' with her CIs if the fact that she's deaf comes up, and they seem confused about how to or if they'll be able to communicate.

I don't think I'm building an illusion. I'm not saying 'hallelujah, she's no longer deaf! (as long as her batteries hold up)' I'm just saying that she's deaf, no sound without these tools, her CIs. She's fluent in ASL (but too rarely encounter those who are comfortable using ASL), and she can 'hear' you speaking just fine, as long as her CIs are on. I'd tend to use "she has access to sounds" with those who have a stronger grasp of deafness or hearing technology, but I'll shortcut it with most people who have no idea that a cochlear implant exists.

i agree.

when we meet someone and it comes up, i say "she's deaf" (and they look terrified usually) and then they ask "so does she sign?" and i say "yes, she does". Then they usually ask "so can she read lips at all?" and i answer "actually, she has a device implanted in her ear that helps her hear. If you speak to her normally, she should be able to understand you."

if it is more important than that, i share more.

 

[deafbajagal]

Why don't we agree that some deaf people CAN hear SOME things and maybe even understand SOME things?

But why even bother saying that deaf people can hear? What is the purpose of this? So that people can talk to us behind our backs? "I've been told that some kids, especially with a CI, CAN hear, so why don't we just treat them like a hearing person"?

Kinda like saying "She can add and subtract, so she can do math. Let's tell everyone that she can do math, so that everyone can treat her like a mathematician."

See my point?

Best post ever!

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

alright let me qualify what i mean by "a ci kid". To me that means a child with only a hearing loss, id'ed and implanted in very early childhood with appropriate follow up.

of course there are kids that fall outside that range, and those outcomes are much more varied.

but i do think the average kid receiving an implant in the last 5-!0 years and on into the future will be exactly that.

ah.... you THINK... so your previous post is not a fact.

btw - let's get this right. you are not clarifying. you are correcting your previous post.

not correcting or changing, just expanding and clarifying

speech perception testing and aural rehab/av therapy is done with out lipreading so yes, we know how much they are lipreading and how much they are hearing and discriminating.

 

[GrendelQ]

Wirelessly posted

i said that they "absolutely CAN hear", not that they can hear absolutely everything. Of course they can't hear everything. But they can and do understand teachers and peers, to say otherwise is disingenious. Of course i am not saying that they hear perfectly, that is not what i wrote.

OK, I think I took your post a bit differently Please disregard my earlier take on it.

No offense FJ, but, now I'm a little bit confused about what you mean. I guess I think that SOME deaf kids can hear and understand teacher and classmates in a mainstream classroom, though definitely not perfectly, but not most, not even with a super HA or CI. I think my kid is doing brilliantly with her CIs, but still, I don't think she hears (or learns) in the same exact way as a hearing child and so I really prefer that my child is learning in the very tailored environment of 4-5 kids and 2 teachers that she's in rather than among 28 kids in a noisy classroom.

 

[deafbajagal]

A lot of assessments done to measure speech discrimination, etc. are often done not in the typical educational environment (which is very noisy) but in a quiet room with only one other person...

 

[Daredevel7]

I don't think I'm building an illusion. I'm not saying 'hallelujah, she's no longer deaf! (as long as her batteries hold up)' I'm just saying that she's deaf, no sound without these tools, her CIs. She's fluent in ASL (but too rarely encounter those who are comfortable using ASL), and she can 'hear' you speaking just fine, as long as her CIs are on. I'd tend to use "she has access to sounds" with those who have a stronger grasp of deafness or hearing technology, but I'll shortcut it with most people who have no idea that a cochlear implant exists.

Well, it gets a little blurry there, because you are perfectly within your rights to say all that, because she uses her CI very well.

It's really too bad that the same van driver probably will also talk to me behind my back, and react "I don't get it. Why didn't you understand me? An adorable girl named Li had her CI and understands me perfectly". Someone always gets the short end of the stick.

I do it too. I always speak to people and I had HAs for most of my life. Im usually the first deaf person they have met. I am willing to bet some of them have reacted to other deaf people, thinking things like "I don't get it. I know this girl who can understand me and speak very well and she had only HAs. Why can't you do that? Ohhh, you must not be very intelligent."

Just one of those things that it's really no one's fault.......

I try to educate people the best way I can.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted

i said that they "absolutely CAN hear", not that they can hear absolutely everything. Of course they can't hear everything. But they can and do understand teachers and peers, to say otherwise is disingenious. Of course i am not saying that they hear perfectly, that is not what i wrote.

OK, I think I took your post a bit differently Please disregard my earlier take on it.

No offense FJ, but, now I'm a little bit confused about what you mean. I guess I think that SOME deaf kids can hear and understand teacher and classmates in a mainstream classroom, though definitely not perfectly, but not most, not even with a super HA or CI. I think my kid is doing brilliantly with her CIs, but still, I don't think she hears (or learns) in the same exact way as a hearing child and so I really prefer that my child is learning in the very tailored environment of 4-5 kids and 2 teachers that she's in rather than among 28 kids in a noisy classroom.

i agree with you. I strongly dislike mainstreaming, especially for my own child, bit there are kids who do great with it. I was simply responding to the assertion that a deaf child in a spoken language classroom would not hear or understand their teachers or peers. Like they would be sitting there, with no information or access. That just isn't true. While i doubt that i would mainstream my child without HUGE accomidations, that doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to hear her teachers and peers. It just means that another setting would better meet her needs.

 

[posts from hell]

Well, it gets a little blurry there, because you are perfectly within your rights to say all that, because she uses her CI very well.

It's really too bad that the same van driver probably will also talk to me behind my back, and react "I don't get it. Why didn't you understand me? An adorable girl named Li had her CI and understands me perfectly". Someone always gets the short end of the stick.

I do it too. I always speak to people and I had HAs for most of my life. Im usually the first deaf person they have met. I am willing to bet some of them have reacted to other deaf people, thinking things like "I don't get it. I know this girl who can understand me and speak very well and she had only HAs. Why can't you do that? Ohhh, you must not be very intelligent."

Just one of those things that it's really no one's fault.......

I try to educate people the best way I can.

tHATS WHY MISREPRESENTATION SHOULD BE AVERTED.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

I don't think I'm building an illusion. I'm not saying 'hallelujah, she's no longer deaf! (as long as her batteries hold up)' I'm just saying that she's deaf, no sound without these tools, her CIs. She's fluent in ASL (but too rarely encounter those who are comfortable using ASL), and she can 'hear' you speaking just fine, as long as her CIs are on. I'd tend to use "she has access to sounds" with those who have a stronger grasp of deafness or hearing technology, but I'll shortcut it with most people who have no idea that a cochlear implant exists.

Well, it gets a little blurry there, because you are perfectly within your rights to say all that, because she uses her CI very well.

It's really too bad that the same van driver probably will also talk to me behind my back, and react "I don't get it. Why didn't you understand me? An adorable girl named Li had her CI and understands me perfectly". Someone always gets the short end of the stick.

I do it too. I always speak to people and I had HAs for most of my life. Im usually the first deaf person they have met. I am willing to bet some of them have reacted to other deaf people, thinking things like "I don't get it. I know this girl who can understand me and speak very well and she had only HAs. Why can't you do that? Ohhh, you must not be very intelligent."

Just one of those things that it's really no one's fault.......

I try to educate people the best way I can.

what sucks even worse is the fact that that bus driver will probably talk to li-li and chat and joke with her, but all in spoken language and those on the bus who don't have access will be left in the dark

 

[posts from hell]

what sucks even worse is the fact that that bus driver will probably talk to li-li and chat and joke with her, but all in spoken language and those on the bus who don't have access will be left in the dark

wHOA WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE?

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

A lot of assessments done to measure speech discrimination, etc. are often done not in the typical educational environment (which is very noisy) but in a quiet room with only one other person...

yes, but the testing should also be done in noise and therapy will eventually move up the auditory skills hierarchy to include competing noise as well.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

what sucks even worse is the fact that that bus driver will probably talk to li-li and chat and joke with her, but all in spoken language and those on the bus who don't have access will be left in the dark

wHOA WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE?

what? I think it sucks when employees of a Deaf school don't sign. My daughter's old school had dozens of van drivers and not a single one could communicate with a child who didn't speak and hear. It pissed me off.