Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

rick48 said:
As these are generalized statements, no, I do not agree that they apply to all deaf individuals.

You go on to quote extensively from the Center for Hearing Loss Help Learning Center but as they are apparently a for-profit organization why did you choose not preface your comments with the same caveat you utilized when lifting materials from an implant center's website?

Guess you concern for noting the remote possibility of bias, without any proof that it exists, only extends to those for-profit entities who you do not agree with.
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She will come along, Rick; she's what? 17 yrs old? Come on, man!
 
shel90 said:
My issue is not about how Jackie raised her children...it is her posts and comments about the signing deaf children. Some of them just gave me a certain feeling that I am not comfortable with. I would rather not say but it all started before you joined on AD. It is more of her teaching philosophies and her view on the Deaf schools and ASL in the educational setting that I just strongly disagree with.
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Exactly. There is a bit of a history there, vallee, that took palce before you joined the board. Perhaps its best to just leave it at that. It really doesn'thave anything to do with Jackie's children.
 
rick48 said:
As these are generalized statements, no, I do not agree that they apply to all deaf individuals.

You go on to quote extensively from the Center for Hearing Loss Help Learning Center but as they are apparently a for-profit organization why did you choose not preface your comments with the same caveat you utilized when lifting materials from an implant center's website?

Guess you concern for noting the remote possibility of bias, without any proof that it exists, only extends to those for-profit entities who you do not agree with.
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The Center for Hearing Loss Help is not int he business of promoting one philosophy over another, nor do they make their profit from marketing any particular devise. The diseminate information.

CI clinics, on the other hand, do make their profit from marketing a devise, and therefore, will publish research findings that support their ability to make a profit.

Therefore, there is a big difference. Also, what Kaitlin reported is information made available through the Center. Quite different from research findings.
 
Tousi said:
She will come along, Rick; she's what? 17 yrs old? Come on, man!
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Agreed. And the fact of the matter ism that simply because an agency is for-profit does not immediately imply bias. It is how they make their profit that puts the motive in question. Obviously, Kaitlin has a good understanding of the difference.

Keep up the good work, Kaitlin!
 
jillio said:
Exactly. There is a bit of a history there, vallee, that took palce before you joined the board. Perhaps its best to just leave it at that. It really doesn'thave anything to do with Jackie's children.
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It does set a lasting impression to her two children. Is that the way we want them to see Deaf Culture and Deaf Community?

As with me, I accept the different opinions and ideas. I respect them. I do have my views and I believe them, but agree to listen to others and reflect. Somethings have changed some have not, but I do hold a higher respect then I did months ago.
 
Cheri said:
Who's 17? You mean Kaitin? last time I checked she is 21.
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I don't know how old she is exactly, but I do know that she is learning her way around the research field, and is also making an effort to inform herself and amke resonable and well thought out rebuttals to those things with which she disagrees. No need for rick to bully her.
 
vallee said:
It does set a lasting impression to her two children. Is that the way we want them to see Deaf Culture and Deaf Community?

As with me, I accept the different opinions and ideas. I respect them. I do have my views and I believe them, but agree to listen to others and reflect. Somethings have changed some have not, but I do hold a higher respect then I did months ago.
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Her son did attempt to join this forum, and he was treated with respect and was welcomed. She however, has stated that he has been forbidden to post here or to associate with members of Deaf culture that hold views different from hers. Therefore, the impression that her children are getting is one that is being given to them from her. Perhaps if her children were allowed to experience the same, they would gain a greater understanding just was you have, vallee.

But, as I said, this has nothing to do with her children. It has to do with contradictions within her philosphies and her postings, as well as the propensity to resort to personal attack when she is called on those inconsistencies.
 
rick48 said:
As these are generalized statements, no, I do not agree that they apply to all deaf individuals.
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Of course not. Nothing about learning and communication applies to all individuals - deaf, HoH, or hearing. But please reread the post - it does not say "all" anywhere:

From the 2 articles from Center for Hearing Loss Help: Some people are remarkably good at guessing but no one is perfect. - Fatigue is the constant companion of most hard of hearing people whether they realise it or not. The other quotes are research articles so the conclusions are only for the research subjects - not all.

rick48 said:
You go on to quote extensively from the Center for Hearing Loss Help Learning Center but as they are apparently a for-profit organization why did you choose not preface your comments with the same caveat you utilized when lifting materials from an implant center's website?
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It is my understanding that the Center for Hearing Loss Help is a free zine for anyone who is HoH or wants information about HoH. From the Center website - "FREE Subscription to: Hearing Loss Help -The premier e-zine for people with hearing loss" and "Make A Donation - If the information on this site has helped you, please consider making a donation so this valuable service can continue to help people. Donations in any amount gratefully received. Thank you." . I don't think the Center has a financial interest in CI, HA, lessons for ASL or cued speech, or anything else we talk about in the thread. If you can show I am wrong I will apologize because showing financial interest is important with research - not just with CI but with anything.

rick48 said:
Guess you concern for noting the remote possibility of bias, without any proof that it exists, only extends to those for-profit entities who you do not agree with.
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Not at all, Rick. Please reread my posts. Maybe you think I attack you in the past? If you reread you will find I don't. Also please see I rarely quote Carol Padden. I admire Carol Padden and her work very much, but I think she is a activist. I am glad she is a activitst for the deaf, but maybe then some of her papers are have too strong a bias. So I agree (I think) with her basic thinking but don't quote her often because of concern of bias in papers. Please reread.

With respect, I don't think you need so much defensiveness or anger. We are not in a fight or enemies. We are members of the same community (AD) talking about a sensitive topic that everyone cares so much :)
 
Let's give Rick a nice teddy bear hug, maybe he will see that we aren't so bad..:D
 
Cheri said:
Who's 17? You mean Kaitin? last time I checked she is 21.
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Oh, ok, Cheri; I must have been thinking of someone else....but even at 21, wow, great work she does in researching....
 
Angel said:
Let's give Rick a nice teddy bear hug, maybe he will see that we aren't so bad..:D
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Okay, you first, Angel! Then maybe I'll shake his hand and deliver that foul ball he hit back to him.:fingersx:
 
he only thing I am pointing out is the issues of a prelingually deaf child, and a post-lingually deaf adult are different. When setting educational policy for deaf children, these are things that need to be considered. That does not invalidate your opinions.
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Exactly. Although I do have to say that the issues of a late deafened adult, and a postie kid (even an early dhh) are different too. Although, I do think that postie kids should get exposure to ASL and stuff like that, as part of a "full toolbox" approach. We need to equipt ALL kids with ALL possible tools, so THEY can be the ones to chose which tools they want to use. Why is that so hard to understand? Maybe if we focused on a full toolbox approach, then acheivement levels would RISE. Yes, there are kids who have done well by any account....but overall acheivement levels are still really low.
 
Tousi said:
Okay, you first, Angel! Then maybe I'll shake his hand and deliver that foul ball he hit back to him.:fingersx:
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LOL, chicken....



:hug: Rickie .... happy now Tousie boy?
 
Kaitin said:
Of course not. Nothing about learning and communication applies to all individuals - deaf, HoH, or hearing. But please reread the post - it does not say "all" anywhere:

From the 2 articles from Center for Hearing Loss Help: Some people are remarkably good at guessing but no one is perfect. - Fatigue is the constant companion of most hard of hearing people whether they realise it or not. The other quotes are research articles so the conclusions are only for the research subjects - not all.
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Yes.. quite true. I'm an excellent lipreader but it was exhausting before I got implanted and it didn't help that I am very near sighted. While lipreading is a useful skill, if you have little hearing and little aid from your hearing aid it get tiring quickly. My face used to ache from lipreading all day.
 
deafdyke said:
Exactly. Although I do have to say that the issues of a late deafened adult, and a postie kid (even an early dhh) are different too. Although, I do think that postie kids should get exposure to ASL and stuff like that, as part of a "full toolbox" approach. We need to equipt ALL kids with ALL possible tools, so THEY can be the ones to chose which tools they want to use. Why is that so hard to understand? Maybe if we focused on a full toolbox approach, then acheivement levels would RISE. Yes, there are kids who have done well by any account....but overall acheivement levels are still really low.
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Yes, I believe that will increase literacy skills and not put any DHH children at risk for language delays. I dont understand why it is hard for some people to understand or what are they so afraid of. If we were promoting ASL only, then yes, it would be a different story. We are meeting the oralists halfway by supporting the use of both. Why cant they? It is not about us...it is about the children's needs first.
 
jillio said:
.....
What is the back up plan for the oral child who relies on CI alone to get information in the classroom in the event that the CI malfunctions? Can't get a substitute CI to take over.
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Malfunction....??
Put in new batteries. Or only use 1 CI instead of both.
But malfunctions .... like what....??
My guess is that the student will miss more classes due to illness and/or (at later age) a hangover than due to a CI-malfunction..

And from someone who knows her shit:
My son has a freedom back up and 2 3 G back ups so he will never be "down".. I know of the implant centers here have bakcups and provide them immediately... so a child is not "left hanging"".. furthermore , as an interpreter, many many times the terp DOES NOT show up and the child is left in class with nothing... I have seen this for myself many , many times over... Just like interpreters have not shown up to court (( my dad has a court case) and we have been going back and forth for the past 3 yeats because they NEVER EVER show up.
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What backup did you have when you had a hangover the morning you had to go to class??
 
Cloggy said:
And from someone who knows her shit:
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My son has a freedom back up and 2 3 G back ups so he will never be "down".. I know of the implant centers here have bakcups and provide them immediately... so a child is not "left hanging"".. furthermore , as an interpreter, many many times the terp DOES NOT show up and the child is left in class with nothing... I have seen this for myself many , many times over... Just like interpreters have not shown up to court (( my dad has a court case) and we have been going back and forth for the past 3 yeats because they NEVER EVER show up.
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That's one big lie, if someone is gonna sit here and lie, I refused to take in a lie. I know for matter of fact interpreters who weren't showed up is not the fault of the interpreters, it's the fault of the people who works in court, or in the doctor's office or at the board of education who refused to provide an interpreter for the deaf. There are many of them who refused to follow the laws, our rights to have an interpreter.

Government agencies may need to provide a qualified interpreter when requested by the deaf consumer. It is your responsibility, as a consumer, to ask for an interpreter before the appointment. You are not responsible for the interpreter's bill. The agency must pay the fees.

If you need to go to court, you must call the court and ask for an interpreter who is certified. The cost of the interpreter cannot be added to any court costs.

Rights of Deaf And Hard of Hearing Under the Americans With Disabilities Act
 
Cloggy said:
Malfunction....??
Put in new batteries. Or only use 1 CI instead of both.
But malfunctions .... like what....??
My guess is that the student will miss more classes due to illness and/or (at later age) a hangover than due to a CI-malfunction..

And from someone who knows her shit:


What backup did you have when you had a hangover the morning you had to go to class??
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What does a hangover have to do with anything?

What if the malfunction has nothing to do with batteries? Just read an account in Hands and Vioces where a child's CI just suddenly stopped working. This is not the first account of something like this happening. The only solution is reimplantation. What does an oral CI child do for educational services between malfunction and reimplantation, Clogggy? They don't know sign, the CI has stopped working, residual hearing has been destroyed so the HA is no longer effective, and the classroom is not a conducive atmosphere for speech reading. What does that child do? Where is the backup plan?

Your buddy Rick is the one that brought this issue up by stating that a signing child was overly dependent, and that terps failed to show up for classes, leaving that child without support services and unable to learn for the day. Children who use terps have back up plans. There are always PRN terps on call, just as there are always subsitute teachers on call. So that blows his reasoning out of the water.

So, tell me , Cloggy, what is the back up plan for that child? You stil haven't answered the question, but simply tried to divert the topic to something regarding hangovers. To compare a nonfunctioning CI to a hangover is indication that you obviously don't see malfunction and leaving a child with no communication skills at all as a result of an oral only environment to be a serious issue.
 
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