About this Deaf Culture thing...

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drphil said:
I guess if one want to use ASL at a church service perhaps suggests how many people-there-would understand what was communicated by ASL? Worth while?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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:confused:
What kind of question is that???
Are you being obtuse on purpose?
 
I would say it doesn't matter if there's not even one that knows ASL.

Glenn's friend could still sign her/his song. It's beautiful to watch, and I imagine the congregation would likely enjoy it.

It's no different than watching a juggler at a fair - do we not go to the fair or not watch because we don't know how to juggle ourselves?
 
drphil said:
I guess if one want to use ASL at a church service perhaps suggests how many people-there-would understand what was communicated by ASL? Worth while?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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There are lots of deaf churches. It's worthwhile there. If the song signer is at a hearing church she is going to get practice anyway.

Maybe they want to interpret professionally later.

I actually get pretty happy when people communicate in sign with me. And I am worth while even if it is only me!
 
I think that how well Dr. Phil is treated, despite his ignorant statements and use of offense terms like "hearing impaired," shows how patient and open-minded AD members are. I can't imagine a troll on another forum being treated this well. Many people here have tried to reach out to Dr. Phil, who rejected them. If he ever comes around, he would be kindly accepted, at least by most people. Dr. Phil is in control of his own life. He is not some sort of victim.
 
I don't think drphil means to be ignorant or rejecting advice on purpose. He reminds me a little bit of my dad in the sense that he is in his own little world.
 
Amongst other details - I don't perceive using the term "Hearing Impaired"-which I was for over 40 year as "ignorant". Just described a condition.

As for multiple comments re "cultural deaf" by hearing persons-interesting.

Reality check: this is only a computer terminal- whether any comment is real/pertinent presumably in the "ear of the beholden". Especially the COMMENTS I was ACTUALLY DEAF without knowing it. Just smile

I encountered even "wilder comments" in the other forum I belong to : VampireFreaks.Com which has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ONE! I won't get into the theoretical discussion can a Goth/Zombie? be "cultural deaf"? NOTE: really got into a discussion with SkinHeads of England cult whether parents could/should impart their religious values to their 5 years old children?. My position: yes-their responsibility. Does this "echo" re Cochlear Implants for babies/ children? Need "tough skin"?

On going discussions hopefully- not monlogues.

Implanted-Sunnybrook Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Amongst other details - I don't perceive using the term "Hearing Impaired"-which I was for over 40 year as "ignorant". Just described a condition.

As for multiple comments re "cultural deaf" by hearing persons-interesting.

Reality check: this is only a computer terminal- whether any comment is real/pertinent presumably in the "ear of the beholden". Especially the COMMENTS I was ACTUALLY DEAF without knowing it. Just smile

I encountered even "wilder comments" in the other forum I belong to : VampireFreaks.Com which has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ONE! I won't get into the theoretical discussion can a Goth/Zombie? be "cultural deaf"? NOTE: really got into a discussion with SkinHeads of England cult whether parents could/should impart their religious values to their 5 years old children?. My position: yes-their responsibility. Does this "echo" re Cochlear Implants for babies/ children? Need "tough skin"?

On going discussions hopefully- not monlogues.

Implanted-Sunnybrook Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
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First of all - I had to see what you were talking about...

drphil's Vampirefreaks Messageboard Info

That is the link to your user name on VampireFreaks.com, and guess what. ONLY 4 posts in their messageboard.

And you're member of only 6 "cults" which is just groups of people on vampirefreaks - not 20 as you earlier stated.

Please be original. Even the "get real" is from someone on vampirefreaks not your statement.
 
jillio said:
But around here, it appears that we have people joining for no other reason that to tell us over and over and over again that they have no desire to be a part of the Deaf community, that their values and their beliefs about deafness are polar opposites of what the majority of this community represents, that our ideas about Deaf Culture are figments of our imagination. And they don't say it once. They keep coming back and saying the same things over and over and over.
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I think the problem is that some people are just disgusted with their deaf peers and associate them to "Deaf Culture" and want to do nothing with them. The association is so wrong but it's human nature. People tend to make false associations. They think that the hearing is "better" somehow - never mind that the hearing also gossip, backstab, and all that.

I've had deaf people tell me personally that they're sick of deaf community and want to end their relationships with them. Did they? Nope. They're just feeling extremely frustrated at times and I always tell them that they will ALWAYS need to be with the Deaf because it's an integral part of their lives. If they leave, whom will they be able to communicate well with? The hearing will always make them feel marginalized, no matter how hard the hearing try to accommodate them. Suppose you go out with the hearing and hearing people talk, how do you understand what they're saying if they don't sign? You can't.

So, don't be surprised if they "hate" deaf community but keep participating in the community.
 
I actually get pretty happy when people communicate in sign with me. And I am worth while even if it is only me!

:gpost:
 
shel90 said:
Fluid intelligence is what I am trying to achive for with my students with the lessons I create. Is it a learned skill or is someone born with it?

I am having trouble with two of my students when it comes to getting them to think critically right now but then again, they both have language delays so i dont know ...arrghh
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Here is a tool I love. It helps me think, it helps me learn, it helps me solve problems, it helps me write stories.

It is sort of like free association with the added bonus you don't have to stop and think "Well now how did I get here?"

And best of all it is FREE!

CmapTools - Home Page Cmap.html

For some ideas on how a teacher might use it look here.

http://weblink.scsd.us/~prodev/Humanities/voc/2.2_SemanticMapping.pdf

Let me know if, how, it works.
 
Glenn said:
Try this one:

A friend of mine texted me the other day and said she read online somewhere that the deaf community disapprove of ASL being used where there are no deaf. She wondered if that were true or not.

She wants to sign a song in ASL at her church. She thinks ASL is a beautiful and visual language and the only one that can be seen.

I gave her my thoughts on that. What do you ADers think?
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I will reference flip's answer. I think any appropriate exposure of ASL to the hearing population is a good thing.
 
netrox said:
I think the problem is that some people are just disgusted with their deaf peers and associate them to "Deaf Culture" and want to do nothing with them. The association is so wrong but it's human nature. People tend to make false associations. They think that the hearing is "better" somehow - never mind that the hearing also gossip, backstab, and all that.

I've had deaf people tell me personally that they're sick of deaf community and want to end their relationships with them. Did they? Nope. They're just feeling extremely frustrated at times and I always tell them that they will ALWAYS need to be with the Deaf because it's an integral part of their lives. If they leave, whom will they be able to communicate well with? The hearing will always make them feel marginalized, no matter how hard the hearing try to accommodate them. Suppose you go out with the hearing and hearing people talk, how do you understand what they're saying if they don't sign? You can't.

So, don't be surprised if they "hate" deaf community but keep participating in the community.
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You have a very valid point, especially in that you will find the same issues in hearing culture that people often complain of in Deaf culture. In those instances, it is more a matter of the individual not having the skills to deal with frustration in any culture. It is more of a personal issue needing skills training. We find this, I think, a lot in the Deaf culture because of language delays created through non-exposure to ASL that in turn, create social development delays.

The ones that I have a problem with are the ones that have never attempted to understand Deaf culture, and whose participation is limited to the negative activity of degrading it.
 
Berry said:
Here is a tool I love. It helps me think, it helps me learn, it helps me solve problems, it helps me write stories.

It is sort of like free association with the added bonus you don't have to stop and think "Well now how did I get here?"

And best of all it is FREE!

CmapTools - Home Page Cmap.html

For some ideas on how a teacher might use it look here.

http://weblink.scsd.us/~prodev/Humanities/voc/2.2_SemanticMapping.pdf

Let me know if, how, it works.
Click to expand...

We in mental health call this "thinking about thinking."
 
jillio said:
I will reference flip's answer. I think any appropriate exposure of ASL to the hearing population is a good thing.
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That is about what I told my friend. I told her that I saw no reason there would be anything wrong with using ASL for a church song.
 
To be more specific: what EXACTLY are "deaf/Deaf" values passed on? Unknown to "anyone else"?

Using ASL to a person who has NO IDEA WHAT IS BEING SIGNED- isn't a concern of being "wrong" against anyone known moral code-- however what does they "pick up"? An example of what I am talking about: I have fingerspelled the letters C H S and asked anyone knew what i just did.No. CHS Canadian Hearing Society.

Implanted A B Harmony Activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
To be more specific: what EXACTLY are "deaf/Deaf" values passed on? Unknown to "anyone else"?

Using ASL to a person who has NO IDEA WHAT IS BEING SIGNED- isn't a concern of being "wrong" against anyone known moral code-- however what does they "pick up"? An example of what I am talking about: I have fingerspelled the letters C H S and asked anyone knew what i just did.No. CHS Canadian Hearing Society.

Implanted A B Harmony Activated Aug/07
Click to expand...

You say you read Lane. He is very specific regarding Deaf cultural values. Perhaps you need to re-read with a great deal more comprehension that the first time around.

Who did you sign it to? Obviously not deaf people. Deaf cultural values are passed to the deaf, not the hearing. You are setting up a self fulfilling prophecy in your attempted demonstrations, and completely invalidates any investigation you are undertaking.
 
As duly mentioned many times- I am deaf. I do use a Cochlear Implant-still deaf. Have no direct knowledge of "secret deaf values". Is this a modern version of Gnosticism?

The fingerspellling was to persons I knew- "hearies" who never knew they BELONGED TO HEARING CULTURE. Surprised that I asked them.

Conversely is there ONLY "hearing values" known to "hearies"? Does any person who becomes deaf after birth reject "these values" becoming deaf?

Presumably Harlan Lane, a "hearie". subscribes to "both sets of values"? I don't recall much discussion "deaf values" in his book.

Is the above: high/low/medium/fluid// style of thinking?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
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drphil,

do you TRULY not understand and honestly want to/are open to understanding - or are you intentionally being obtuse and closed to understanding anything about Deaf Culture and that "deaf" (medically, practically, socially and culturally) applies to more than only those who have +100db hearing loss (bilaterally, or unilaterally).

If you HONESTLY want to learn, then you need to step back and actaully be open to absorbing and discussing it with those of us who have both been immersed in Deaf Culture since birth, and more importantly - from those of us who have, like yourself acquired hearing loss, and (unlike you) have made the choice to be involved in Deaf Culture. If you ARE truly, honestly open and willing to learn, we would be HAPPY to discuss it with you, using complete, understandable sentences, not your "vampirefreak shorthand" (which, having looked many times over the past 8months at that site, it seems rather ironically, that you seem to be the only one on VampireFreaks who uses that type of shorthand/phrasing)
 
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