A Deaf's View Regarding CI

kokonut said:
I understand perfectly. I'm just saying that I can't imagine *hearing parents* would say that. Perhaps they may say it in terms of "Look at this way, you have some advantages of being deaf!" Lucky to not see or hear? No.
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You're deliberately distorting my point. I never said parents should tell their kids how lucky they are to be deaf.
 
DeafCaroline said:
You're deliberately distorting my point. I never said parents should tell their kids how lucky they are to be deaf.
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This is NOT about distorting your point. I am making my case that I couldn't imagine hearing parents would say that compared to Deaf parents. I used the personal pronoun "I" indicating my perspective and not about YOUR point. Case in point, could you imagine Deaf parents tell their deaf/hh child that he/she is lucky she can hear?
 
Actually, yes I can imagine some deaf parents telling their kids they're lucky they can hear because I've done that with my sons in instances where I asked them to order a pizza for us and they would say they don't feel like it. Man oh man, did they get a lecture about consideration for others. In fact, one time one of my sons grumbled and I said "that's it, time for you to see what it's like in my world. Get your boots on and help me shovel out the car so we can drive to the restaurant but first we have to drive around and find a parking space and put money in the meter then we will have to wait for 20 minutes for the pizza to be made then we will go back home." When he saw that it took up to about an hour and a half for me to do what it would have taken him only 3 minutes, he never complained again.

Of course there are certain advantages to being a hearing person but I would never send the message to a deaf kid that he or she needs to be fixed. Far more important to me that they are happy and at ease with deafness rather than the message that they should do all they can to be as least deaf as possible.
 
kokonut said:
This is NOT about distorting your point. I am making my case that I couldn't imagine hearing parents would say that compared to Deaf parents. I used the personal pronoun "I" indicating my perspective and not about YOUR point. Case in point, could you imagine Deaf parents tell their deaf/hh child that he/she is lucky she can hear?
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OH yes, they do. There is nothing wrong with being able to hear. The issue is the mainstream society tends to send a message to deaf kids that they need to be fixed. That is where it is wrong.
 
messymama said:
Grendel, I have no intention to say one way o another can be wrong, or that you can't do both (SL and CI). I'm just saying that, like many other decisions we parents have to make, you can't say "what would it be if... ?". You gave her all the tools and that's wonderful, but in the end, it will be up to HER to say if she actually had all she needed, when she'll be grown up. Same with my son... One day they will be teenager, then adults, and will have to cope with their parents' mistakes, and I think it's right this way. Our decisions: I think we both agree on that! Saying "let them decide when grown up" has little sense, since that can be another decision, but early intervention is one thing, late intervention is another thing. If you choose to wait, you indeed make a choice anyway.

If I was able to ask my toddler if he wants CI, anyway, I'm sure I would get a firm "NO". Unless they make a cover for CI with Lightening McQueen on it :lol: He accepted HAs... But only because he loves me. He doesn't care about sound at all. Like you said... No two children, no two families are the same!
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Not everyone care about sound like you say. Don't know if it's a coindence or a new trend, but the last month I've met two other families that said the same as you. Not putting your choices over choices other parents do, and everyone is different like you say, but I applaud your effort to listen to your kid.
 
GrendelQ said:
But deafcaroline, it IS the place, and the responsibility of every parent to make huge life altering decisions for his or her child. When and what children eat and drink, where and how they live, what and how they communicate and learn. You must make these decisions repeatedly throughout your child's life.

Would you really wait until your deaf child is in 4 th, 5 th grade to discuss and decide whether or not to use ASL as a primary language when he could have been immersed for 10, 11 years, learning naturally and having full command of that language throughout those years? Or would you make that life altering decision as soon as you knew he was deaf and provide full access to ASL in his home and school?
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It's a bit insulting comparing a language, ASL, with a tool, CI.
 
DeafCaroline said:
I had no deaf friends at all growing up. My mother was told to keep me away from the deaf community so I would learn only speech because if I also learned ASL and had deaf friends, I wouldn't try as hard to speak well to fit in at the "normal" school.
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And this continues with new generations... when will this stop?
 
Yeah. I had a conversation with a hearing friend a week ago about how I hope to volunteer to teach deaf kids in Cambodia how to sign since there are ZERO resources for deaf kids in third world countries and he was saying "isn't it much better for them to learn to speak?"

He just couldn't understand. Then finally I said "ok, let me put it this way. It's far easier to be a white guy in American than a black one. If someone came along and invented a way to make people white, should we pressure all minorities to be as white as possible because it's just "easier" and "better" that way or should we fight such oppressive patronizing views that one is better than the other and instead just accept people's differences and see each other as equals instead of trying to force them to comply to white people's standards?"

I know it's far more complicated than this and that I'm oversimplifying but that's what i am trying to get the hearing world to understand..that I don't want to be just like them because I am not. I'm just not. And that it's high time for them to start being more accepting instead of thinking that deafness is a disease or some defective trait that must be eradicated as much as possible.

I am glad that there are some people who do get that deaf kids will always be deaf and they make efforts to respect their differences and do what they can to make sure the deaf has the same access and that some parents go out of their way to give their deaf children access to both hearing and deaf communities so they have the best of both worlds. Fabulous!

And yet, when I hear of schools and community centers for the deaf being shut down in my town despite that this world's population is getting bigger every day, it makes me very sad. The Canadian government doesn't want to put their money into those things and now forcing the Deaf to be more and more mainstreamed thanks to their mistake beliefs that CIs make deaf people not deaf and thus they can easily cope in the hearing world. Wrong! So so wrong.
 
missywinks said:
OH yes, they do. There is nothing wrong with being able to hear. The issue is the mainstream society tends to send a message to deaf kids that they need to be fixed. That is where it is wrong.
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Sure, nothing wrong with being able to hear. Meaning nothing wrong with getting a CI or wear a hearing aid to hear.

Still at the same token, I can't imagine hearing parents saying to their deaf/hh children that they are lucky to be deaf. I'm thinking from an overall perspective simply because of the hearing culture. That was my point.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Yeah. I had a conversation with a hearing friend a week ago about how I hope to volunteer to teach deaf kids in Cambodia how to sign since there are ZERO resources for deaf kids in third world countries and he was saying "isn't it much better for them to learn to speak?"

He just couldn't understand. Then finally I said "ok, let me put it this way. It's far easier to be a white guy in American than a black one. If someone came along and invented a way to make people white, should we pressure all minorities to be as white as possible because it's just "easier" and "better" that way or should we fight such oppressive patronizing views that one is better than the other and instead just accept people's differences and see each other as equals instead of trying to force them to comply to white people's standards?"

I know it's far more complicated than this and that I'm oversimplifying but that's what i am trying to get the hearing world to understand..that I don't want to be just like them because I am not. I'm just not. And that it's high time for them to start being more accepting instead of thinking that deafness is a disease or some defective trait that must be eradicated as much as possible.

I am glad that there are some people who do get that deaf kids will always be deaf and they make efforts to respect their differences and do what they can to make sure the deaf has the same access and that some parents go out of their way to give their deaf children access to both hearing and deaf communities so they have the best of both worlds. Fabulous!

And yet, when I hear of schools and community centers for the deaf being shut down in my town despite that this world's population is getting bigger every day, it makes me very sad. The Canadian government doesn't want to put their money into those things and now forcing the Deaf to be more and more mainstreamed thanks to their mistake beliefs that CIs make deaf people not deaf and thus they can easily cope in the hearing world. Wrong! So so wrong.
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Thank you for bringing this up. I have found that deaf children in 3rd world countries are way more adjusted compared to kids in wealthy countries like the States and Canada. Parents in wealthy countries are bombarded with too many choices and professional opinions and this no doubt, has an impact on their deaf children. There is too much emphasize on the speaking and trying to bring up deaf children to fit into the mainstream society. :roll:
 
kokonut said:
Sure, nothing wrong with being able to hear. Meaning nothing wrong with getting a CI or wear a hearing aid to hear.

Still at the same token, I can't imagine hearing parents saying to their deaf/hh children that they are lucky to be deaf. I'm thinking from an overall perspective simply because of the hearing culture. That was my point.
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I have had my parents tell me I was lucky to be Deaf. I almost died from spinal meningitis and since then, my parents have been telling me how lucky I am to be Deaf. Also because I cannot hear, I use my other senses better and I have that as an advantage compared to my hearing peers. PLus, I would not meet the people that I have met, or be who I am today if I wasn't Deaf. I look at my hearing peers who I grew up, and I have to say I am quite successful in my life. All of this happened because I could not hear.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Yeah. I had a conversation with a hearing friend a week ago about how I hope to volunteer to teach deaf kids in Cambodia how to sign since there are ZERO resources for deaf kids in third world countries and he was saying "isn't it much better for them to learn to speak?"

He just couldn't understand. Then finally I said "ok, let me put it this way. It's far easier to be a white guy in American than a black one. If someone came along and invented a way to make people white, should we pressure all minorities to be as white as possible because it's just "easier" and "better" that way or should we fight such oppressive patronizing views that one is better than the other and instead just accept people's differences and see each other as equals instead of trying to force them to comply to white people's standards?"

I know it's far more complicated than this and that I'm oversimplifying but that's what i am trying to get the hearing world to understand..that I don't want to be just like them because I am not. I'm just not. And that it's high time for them to start being more accepting instead of thinking that deafness is a disease or some defective trait that must be eradicated as much as possible.

I am glad that there are some people who do get that deaf kids will always be deaf and they make efforts to respect their differences and do what they can to make sure the deaf has the same access and that some parents go out of their way to give their deaf children access to both hearing and deaf communities so they have the best of both worlds. Fabulous!

And yet, when I hear of schools and community centers for the deaf being shut down in my town despite that this world's population is getting bigger every day, it makes me very sad. The Canadian government doesn't want to put their money into those things and now forcing the Deaf to be more and more mainstreamed thanks to their mistake beliefs that CIs make deaf people not deaf and thus they can easily cope in the hearing world. Wrong! So so wrong.
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So true. Still, I feel that we are on the right track with more and more educated deaf people to speak up.

Visited Cambodia not a long time ago, the most happy people I've ever met. Good pick!
 
missywinks said:
Thank you for bringing this up. I have found that deaf children in 3rd world countries are way more adjusted compared to kids in wealthy countries like the States and Canada. Parents in wealthy countries are bombarded with too many choices and professional opinions and this no doubt, has an impact on their deaf children. There is too much emphasize on the speaking and trying to bring up deaf children to fit into the mainstream society. :roll:
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Have you read Josh Swiller's book "The Unheard - Memoir of Deafness and Africa"?


Josh Swiller Shares Experience of Deafness in The Unheard - Disaboom
 
kokonut said:
Sure, nothing wrong with being able to hear. Meaning nothing wrong with getting a CI or wear a hearing aid to hear.

Still at the same token, I can't imagine hearing parents saying to their deaf/hh children that they are lucky to be deaf. I'm thinking from an overall perspective simply because of the hearing culture. That was my point.
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It's nothing wrong with beeing deaf either, nothing wrong with throwing away that CI or HA, right?

It's considered unhealthy to tell kids they are luck to be this or that, because that would only put pressure on kids to show happiness.

Don't quite gasp the point with your point.
 
Yeah! Did you know the school for the Deaf in the capital city of Cambodia is so successful that they boast some of the best teachers of any schools in Cambodia? They are doing a fantastic job! Really outstanding.
 
missywinks said:
Thank you for bringing this up. I have found that deaf children in 3rd world countries are way more adjusted compared to kids in wealthy countries like the States and Canada. Parents in wealthy countries are bombarded with too many choices and professional opinions and this no doubt, has an impact on their deaf children. There is too much emphasize on the speaking and trying to bring up deaf children to fit into the mainstream society. :roll:
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From what I've seen, some deaf people in the third world are really bad treated, and behaves like animals. Sometimes, people are too poor or misinformed to include disabled people. Oralism is still also very widespread in third world schools, and the overal iliteracy among hearing people influences the deaf population, too.

But, yeah, the lack of choices and also welfare, makes deaf people more indepedent. The most impressive deaf personalitites I've met have been in third world countries, some of them self made people running their own business, more wealthy than their neighbours. Don't see much of that in the west.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Yeah! Did you know the school for the Deaf in the capital city of Cambodia is so successful that they boast some of the best teachers of any schools in Cambodia? They are doing a fantastic job! Really outstanding.
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I've heard about deaf westerns who worked at a school in phnom penh. Perhaps the same school you talk about. It's impressive if they have the best teachers in cambodia. Missionaries? Just curious.
 
flip said:
It's nothing wrong with beeing deaf either, nothing wrong with throwing away that CI or HA, right?

It's considered unhealthy to tell kids they are luck to be this or that, because that would only put pressure on kids to show happiness.

Don't quite gasp the point with your point.
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You can throw away or put away your CI or HA. Nothing wrong with that.

Keep in mind, 90 percent of all deaf/hh kids are from hearing parents and because of the hearing culture, can you imagine all those parents telling their deaf/hh kids that they are lucky to have a hearing loss? Or it'd be more realistic for them to say that they are lucky that they can hear (from mild to profound, take your pick with hearing technology today).

I don't see it as "unhealthy" to say that they are lucky to be this or that. That depends on what they're talking about. Are you still talking about hearing?
 
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