82 y.o. lady defends herself

Reba said:
Exactly. Nothing new in this story. There is nothing that says she wasn't trained, that the perp wouldn't kill her if she gave up her purse, that the police were near, or that there were many witnesses present.

You made a lot of unproven assumptions.
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Read post #16....she was offered free ammo and training....
 
rockin'robin said:
Nothing was said if the robber was "hopped up" on drugs...and yes, the robber was trying to steal her purse and her car. He wasn't just trying to beat her to death..he wanted that purse, along with her car keys....
And Walmart employees held the man down until the police got there, so she did get some help....there are some good people out there....

Granny was "no match" for the man!...At her age, she would have been better off to let the purse go, instead, she kept fighting and he kept hitting her with the cane. There were many eye-witness in that parking lot. And the police were close by. Even if he had gotten the purse and the car, he would have not been able to get very far.

She put her life in jeopardy, and others also by shooting wildly, 5 shots, and still missing the robber. It could have been a small child, even a baby, who got shot instead! She had "no training" with a gun, which is deadly! That's my point....

I would rather give up my purse, than to be beat to death with a cane.....I value my life and others in this situation.
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Post #8:

(((sarcasm switch turned on)))

yeah, she probably shouldn't have been carrying a gun She should have been a good little victim and let the guy beat her to death.
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Do you get it now? :cool2:


I make fun of people like you. It is people like you that get people killed.
 
Reba said:
They came to her aid AFTER they heard the gunshots.


Where did you read that he hit her only because she wouldn't give up her purse? The only quote from the perp that I've read was that he wanted to kill her.


Where did you read that? Link please.


You know that for a fact?


Where did you read that she had no training?

Did you know that even with lots of range training, trying to aim and shoot while being beaten down with a cane is not the same as shooting at a stationary paper target? Even police firing at a suspect don't always hit the target. The police get lots of training and practice on the range but that doesn't mean they will always hit the moving target.


How do you know for sure in this situation that the guy would have quit beating her with the cane if she gave him her purse? He said he was going to kill her, no ifs ands or buts.

This person did exactly what the crook wanted. He gave up the money but was still killed.


Clerk shot, killed during robbery at convenience store - KansasCity.com
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Yep - robbers don't want to be caught, most do not want any witnesses. If you remain alive, you are a witness.
 
rockin'robin said:
Read post #16....she was offered free ammo and training....
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Range time ... not training. It is still sort of the same thing.

The point was, she missed the dirt bag. She does need more "training" for better aim. As Reba pointed out, even LEO's miss their target.

There was a recent case here in my town, where an elder gentleman was using the bathroom and had a gun in a local big box store. Another person in the bathroom saw the guy's gun. left and called the local PD. They arrived, the old man drew his weapon and the two responding officers shot and killed him right there.

Between the two officers, they fired a total of 32 rounds. They hit the guy 7 times. These were close quarters.
 
Steinhauer said:
I make fun of people like you. It is people like you that get people killed.
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You still don't get it. :eek3:

I think that people should have the option of owning a gun. My entire reason behind putting you down was your choice of article for enlightening the rest of us. You see, this untrained, inaccurate shooter is the reason I cannot throw my hat into your side 100%. There are many other articles that make a better example for your viewpoint. This one is weak. The Go Granny crap does not pull at my heartstrings. She was in a WalMart parking lot. Are these places ever empty? I don't think so. You telling me that if she screamed, nobody would help? Only gunfire would attract attention? You are full of the Second Amendment, but that does not mean you are full of common sense.

Nice trolling effort at the end of your post. Make fun? Get people killed? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.......
 
saywhatkid said:
... She was in a WalMart parking lot. Are these places ever empty? I don't think so. You telling me that if she screamed, nobody would help? Only gunfire would attract attention?....
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Every week we read about or see on TV another news story about a victim needing help in a public place and being ignored, or, even worse, being gawked at and having the attack recorded on a cell phone camera.

I would never depend on strangers for help in a public place.

Yes, I am telling you that if she screamed (how do we know that she didn't?), there is a very good possibility that no one would help her.

Let me tell you a true story. Before Christmas, Hubby and I were at a local Walmart. It was evening time. We had just parked our car. A few spaces away from us was a mini van with its sliding door wide open. I stopped and glanced around. There were no people in it but there were car seats, indicating there could be children. I didn't want to touch anything, such as shutting the door, nor did I want to leave it alone. I told Hubby I would wait by the van to keep an eye on it while he went into the store to notify security. There was another couple nearby. They had noticed the same thing, and were writing a note to the van driver, to tell them how they found the van.

After a few minutes, Hubby came back out. He said he notified security, and that they would make a PA announcement, and that they would come outside to investigate. So we waited. And waited. And waited. No one came out. Finally, a family approached the van. We told them what had happened. They thanked us for watching out for them. I asked if security had made the announcement about the van. They said no, there was no announcement. Security never came out to the parking lot that night.

This story turned out OK. No one was hurt, no property taken. But it wasn't because of security, that's for sure.

Similar thing happened one time in a fancy hotel parking lot near our municipal convention center. Hubby and I spotted a car with its door wide open, at night. We went into the hotel lobby to report it. They said they were too busy to check on it. We gave them the tag number but they didn't bother to check it. We called the police, and they drove by about 20 minutes later. The cop got out, looked in the car, then shut the door, then left.

Do you feel more secure now?

Heaven help anyone who is ever abducted from a public parking lot because "security" probably won't.
 
Reba said:
.......Do you feel more secure now?

Heaven help anyone who is ever abducted from a public parking lot because "security" probably won't.
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Again, let me reiterate; I am not against people owning pistols. If I had been in this parking lot, I would have been more likely to help a screaming woman than one that is firing shots, especially when she is firing several rounds, hitting nothing. Make sense?
As usual, it is pointless to discuss gun control or abortion in a public forum. Nobody listens. Everyone is dug in. *shrugs*
 
I'm not against gun ownership as long as they have a permit, no felonies and have had training to use one. And the guns are locked up, away from children.

Then again, people who are issued a permit for a gun, and are mentally stable at the time, later on, lose it and kill someone....losing their jobs....arguments with their neighbors...crimes of passion....many issues here.

What I am against is someone having a gun, no training, shooting wildly and still missing the target. These type of people are deadly.

I'm a fighter myself, but know when I'm outmatched. I've also been to a gun range and have had training, years ago. And had a .22 and a permit, becuz I worked late nights....I no longer have that .22, and whenever I feel (if ever I do), that a gun is necessary, then I will again go for more training at the gun range.
 
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I have my permit and I sought out my own firearms training. It is NOT required to have taken any training in Georgia - a small item of contention I have with obtaining a permit (I agree that training should be required).

A gun range owner taught me all the necessary information I needed. I also researched the laws in my State.

I seldom carry in public. The only times I do are when I feel there could be a threat to my personal safety. I never carry in Walmart - In a situation like this 82 y.o. - she is no spring chicken. As mentioned, she was no match for a younger person who could easily over power her.

That right there is why she had a gun.

I could easily defend myself from some young punk without a gun. I do not walk around daily feeling "threatened". However, it was brought to my attention, that many women do.

Men, generally, have less fear in public than women do (or at least, from what I have been told).

Drawing my gun would absolutely be a LAST RESORT. Not the first one.
 
Steinhauer said:
I have my permit and I sought out my own firearms training. It is NOT required to have taken any training in Georgia - a small item of contention I have with obtaining a permit (I agree that training should be required).

A gun range owner taught me all the necessary information I needed. I also researched the laws in my State.
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That is different from South Carolina. We had to take classes on the laws and gun safety. Then, we had to take a written test. If we passed the written test, then we took the practical test (shooting at the range). We had to pass that (and the SLED background check) before we could get our concealed permits.

I seldom carry in public.
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Same here for me and Hubby. Same also with the guys who work at the gun shop.[/quote]

The only times I do are when I feel there could be a threat to my personal safety. I never carry in Walmart - In a situation like this 82 y.o. - she is no spring chicken. As mentioned, she was no match for a younger person who could easily over power her.

That right there is why she had a gun.
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I would still recommend to her not to carry a gun in the purse. I would prefer to sacrifice the purse and keep the gun. But that's me.

Also, when I use public parking lots, I prefer to keep my key ring (with pepper sprayer) in hand, and Blackberry in my pocket rather than in a purse.

I could easily defend myself from some young punk without a gun. I do not walk around daily feeling "threatened". However, it was brought to my attention, that many women do.
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I'm not so fit as you. :giggle: I don't feel daily threatened but I try to stay alert to my surroundings.

Men, generally, have less fear in public than women do (or at least, from what I have been told).
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Nah . . . it's just a male invincible ego thing. :lol:

Drawing my gun would absolutely be a LAST RESORT. Not the first one.
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Amen!
 
I am only 52 years old. Would I give a man who was beating me and trying to steal my car my purse? With a gun in it? Hmm, here is a guy who randomly chose what he assumed was a helpless old woman, beat her with her own cane, intimidated her verbally as well, and she chose NOT to arm him. You say the cops were close as is verified in the news accounts. She may have SAVED not only her own life, but the life of others, the cops or others perhaps. As long as we are speculating I will speculate that I agree with the cops. She did the right thing. She may have saved others by not arming a violent robber. Go Granny? Yes Ma"am. Do I advocate violence? No. Did you read the side articles when perusing the original article? This is no bucolic burb. That old dear had a right to be armed. I am glad they caught the guy BEFORE he got her purse and her pistol. Should she have had the pistol at all? Please go to the original articles and read the side stories. She was responsible enough NOT to release a weapon other than the involuntary release of her cane which was used as a club against her. Think of what you would really do, not what you think you should do. That hard cane coming onto your face, the hard asphalt under your back, the stink of his fear and excitement. What would you really do???

He must have been fairly intent upon harm. She actually was able to reach into her purse, grab the gun and fire. Could she have done this if he was trying to wrest it from her? Nah. My own purse would be a two handed operation. Give this some thought. He is beating her. Does he not see anything other than the blows landing? Nope.

His primary idea was harm. Harm in order to take her car and bag? It is just as easy to find a purse left in a car at Wal Mart. I see it every time I go there. (dogs, purses, kids, elder folks, and once a sheep) There was no reason to verbally intimidate her or to beat her, he was just mean and violent.

By the way, I am a granny who can shoot. No, no training, just grew up where it was a part of every day life. Everything from ground snakes to two legged ones. Hog killing time to deer season. I could shoot when my hand would fit the gun. Same as everyone else then and there. There were times that no shooting meant no eating. That was training.
 
LDNanna said:
I am only 52 years old. Would I give a man who was beating me and trying to steal my car my purse? With a gun in it? Hmm, here is a guy who randomly chose what he assumed was a helpless old woman, beat her with her own cane, intimidated her verbally as well, and she chose NOT to arm him. You say the cops were close as is verified in the news accounts. She may have SAVED not only her own life, but the life of others, the cops or others perhaps. As long as we are speculating I will speculate that I agree with the cops. She did the right thing. She may have saved others by not arming a violent robber. Go Granny? Yes Ma"am. Do I advocate violence? No. Did you read the side articles when perusing the original article? This is no bucolic burb. That old dear had a right to be armed. I am glad they caught the guy BEFORE he got her purse and her pistol. Should she have had the pistol at all? Please go to the original articles and read the side stories. She was responsible enough NOT to release a weapon other than the involuntary release of her cane which was used as a club against her. Think of what you would really do, not what you think you should do. That hard cane coming onto your face, the hard asphalt under your back, the stink of his fear and excitement. What would you really do???
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me, personally, I would have shot him DRT.

Also, imagine if it was your grandmother, and she was killed by this thug.

edited: I love my grandmother very very much. She is perhaps the sweetest woman in the world. It deeply disturbs me to think someone is in a "free society" that would do this to our senior citizens. They are lower than scum and prison is too good for them.
 
rockin'robin said:
Yeah...and a .45 will stop a lot of innocent people in that parking lot too! 5 Shots and they all missed! And he was right in front of her! So she had to be "shooting wildly"...So...."what if" she shot an innocent person? Who was coming to her aid?

Forget the "what if's"! She had no training for a gun, she was "no match" for the robber/mugger at her age! In this situation, giving up the purse would have been best....and let the people who came to her aid overpower the mugger in order for her to stay alive.....NO amount of $$ in your purse is worth getting killed over....
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I understand your view....and I understand that innocent bystanders could have been put at risk. But I don't think the Old Lady was thinking about that at the time.


My perspective at the moment is,

I wouldn't hand over my purse if there was a gun in it. It would be my only way to protect myself. Why hand over my only source of protection? And to a robber intent to kill? I don't think so, if I was under attack, being beatened. What would cross my mind is 'My gun, I need to get to my gun, I don't want to die.'

I'm not going to be sitting there having a mental conversation with myself if I should or should not fire with the risk of hitting innocent bystanders. I'm going to aim the gun, if I can, at the person who is using the cane to beat me, because I want to live. My fear will be driving me, not my mind. Fight or flight syndrome.

I can't aim correctly if I have a cane beating on me at the same time. Also I can't aim if the attacker has his hands on mine to try to get the gun away from me. I know the force of the cane hitting me, or the attacker struggling with me, would cause my body to recoil and jerk about and if I pull the trigger, bullets will be scattered.

As for Tasers or Pepperspray...

I will relate something to you that my brothers, one in Navy and one in Army, have both told me about pepperspray and tasers. While in military training, one of the things they had to do, is to know how it feels to be pepper sprayed and tasered. They both said it sucked big time, but they did it so they could understand how it would make a person feel to be sprayed or tasered, to use it as a last resort because of the pain and discomfort it causes. They know now, long after the snot, spit and tears ran and it certainly took them a while to clear their head and feel their ears after the jolts!!

Both have told me that some men did not seem to get affected by it, that some still managed to move and keep doing what they had to do. Some even got angry because the person who sprayed them is the cause of their discomfort and still had to be held back by two other military buddies.

So pepper spray can have different effects on people, some could be blinded but they still would be able to swing away, shoot away, kick, maim, gouge or whatever. Others will be laying on the ground sobbing like a baby while they feel like throwing up, snot rivers flowing and tears running down their face.

Same thing with tasers. Some big men are harder to bring down. I have seen on 'Cops' big men being tased several times by several officers trying to bring them down for aggravated assualt or for other reasons.

With a Taser or pepperspray, you would have to be real up close and personal to get the results you want. Again, try aiming pepperspray at someone while being beatened, same with the taser.
 
Slightly :topic: here.....

Consider this: If you have a remote keyless entry for your car, it should have a panic button on it. USE IT! I do..I even have it in the house next to my bed..if there ever was a break in at my house I can hit that panic button and the noise alone would alert the neighbors, and possibly scare the bad guy off.

If it doesn't scare the bad guy off tho....well there is always my baseball bats I got stashed all over my house. :D
 
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