3 year old with cochears

[shel90]

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not realize CIs were possible without surgery.

And, that is actually the IMPORTANT part of the comparison you are making -- one that has surgery and one that doesn't. That's why you don't see people screaming about not wanting ASL. If people don't want ASL, they just don't learn it. Simple reasoning, I believe.

Yes, you're right about this not being a thread about surgery. Neither was it a thread about eating vegetables.

Vegetables are good for everyone, therefore CIs are good for everyone. I learned that in Philosophy 101!

 

[shel90]

That really makes no sense. We don't bring childbirth into every conversation about ASL, and I don't think you being around to sign is possible without that.

Are you saying that surgery is an analogy for something else?

Huh? Surgery is not an analogy...CI is a surgery itself, isnt it?

 

[AlleyCat]

Huh? Surgery is not an analogy...CI is a surgery itself, isnt it?

I know. Silly, isn't it? Grendel hated the "CIs in children make me cringe" statement that came from another poster. So she decided to compare CIs to "ASL make me cringe" and I pointed out that there is a reason CIs might make someone cringe - because it requires major surgery! And then it just got ridiculous from there. :roll:

 

[shel90]

I know. Silly, isn't it? Grendel hated the "CIs in children make me cringe" statement that came from another poster. So she decided to compare CIs to "ASL make me cringe" and I pointed out that there is a reason CIs might make someone cringe - because it requires major surgery! And then it just got ridiculous from there. :roll:

ASL can make some poeple cringe because ASL means dumb deaf people, right?

 

[deafdyke]

here's a difference though, i know of a many people who have said it is often a struggle for them to get hearing people to understand them when they speak because it takes getting used to, and this makes it more difficult to communicate with everyone they encounter, especially when they do not know sign,
although my son is learning sign, if i want him to speak (and if he wants to speak) i think the CI will help him to speak clearly, if that ends up being the route he sticks to.

And that's a good way of thinking about it. It's another tool that might be helpful. Most orally trained kids can pick up OK spoken language skills. But the spoken language abilty is not on a par with hearing kids. Rather it's hoh level spoken language abilty. Meaning a lot of kids still may have "deaf speech" or hoh style spoken language delays.

 

[Hohtopics]

there's a difference though, i know of a many people who have said it is often a struggle for them to get hearing people to understand them when they speak because it takes getting used to, and this makes it more difficult to communicate with everyone they encounter, especially when they do not know sign,
although my son is learning sign, if i want him to speak (and if he wants to speak) i think the CI will help him to speak clearly, if that ends up being the route he sticks to.

these conversations always make me feel like i'm being offensive,
but that is really not my intention, so i hope i'm not being offensive and if i am i apologize.

You don't need to apologize. There's nothing wrong with wanting your deaf child to speak. My mother wanted me to learn to speak and that was during the "pre-CI" days, at a time when CI's weren't as common as they are now.

 

[posts from hell]

It's not. My point was that we are being accused of advocating forcing a child to wear something that is hurting him, when AGAIN and again we expressly said "make sure it is NOT hurting him".

No. It was not "we" it was "YOU". Get that right.

 

[jillio]

And what about the Deaf and deaf parents who choose Cis for their children? I know several deaf families who have chosen implants and oral schools for their children, are they "disrupting a deaf child's opportunity for communication"?

What about them? It isn't the CI or the choice for CI that disrupts opportunity for communication. It is what happens afterward, when parents use the CI as an excuse to limit communication opportunities to oral only...either in the educational setting or the home...or both.

 

[jillio]

What? You don't know deaf people who have implanted their children? I know several, including one here in Utah and another at CID. As well as a half a dozen on CI Circle.

Know them personally? Had them to your home for dinner? Socialize with them?

 

[jillio]

No I don't. But I did not search far and wide for them the way you apparently did. They are such a tiny minority anyway.

Yep. You have to go on a scavenger hunt to find them. And when you do, you also need to check the influences they have in their life that colors the decisions they make.

 

[jillio]

I'm going to quote this again. We all wanted to make sure the CI wasn't causing any pain. If you want to view any posts in this thread as anything else, then that's your thing. It's too bad I can't hear what a broken record sounds like.

I actually envy you that!

 

[jillio]

No, PFH and Jillio both claimed that we were advocating forcing a child to wear a device that was hurting him. We stated again and again that we do NOT want that.

I believe my wording was "causing discomfort." Perhaps if you stopped changing words according to your own biased interpretation, you would grasp what we are saying.:roll:

 

[jillio]

there's a difference though, i know of a many people who have said it is often a struggle for them to get hearing people to understand them when they speak because it takes getting used to, and this makes it more difficult to communicate with everyone they encounter, especially when they do not know sign,
although my son is learning sign, if i want him to speak (and if he wants to speak) i think the CI will help him to speak clearly, if that ends up being the route he sticks to.

these conversations always make me feel like i'm being offensive,
but that is really not my intention, so i hope i'm not being offensive and if i am i apologize.

You aren't being defensive. You're okay.

There are CI users that also have a great deal of difficulty with speech. Just the same as HOH HA users.

The CI was never intended for speech purposes. It was intended to increase auditory function. The oralists are the ones that implant children for speech reasons.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



you need to understand that there are plenty of deaf people with CIs, kids and adults, who CAN and DO listen and understand without lipreading. I don't understand why you flat out REFUSE to understand that. I am not making it up and neither are they.

How many are plenty? Got any case study results to verify that? Re: the kids...is that based on something you heard from a hearing parent?

 

[jillio]

the hospital for sick children in toronto very much so states that children should be implanted as early as possible for them to be able to learn speech.

is it wrong to assume professionals in a hospital for children know what they're talking about?

Well, let me explain it this way...they are hearing professionals that are making a profit off of implantation. Chances are better than good that the only contact they have with deaf people at all is when they do surgery on them. They have no knowledge regarding non-invasive methods for dealing with the communication issues that go along with deafness. All they know is the medical perspective.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Well, let me explain it this way...they are hearing professionals that are making a profit off of implantation. Chances are better than good that the only contact they have with deaf people at all is when they do surgery on them. They have no knowledge regarding non-invasive methods for dealing with the communication issues that go along with deafness. All they know is the medical perspective.

The medical perspective would change if they had one of their OWN children implanted with a CI. Hoo-ey, a whole lot of perspective would change.

 

[jillio]

But you are discounting that there is a huge number of deaf people who do NOT have CIs and learned to speak perfectly well. I'm one of them, so I know what I write of. A CI is not necessary for just learning to speak clearly.

Although I try not to use him as an example to support what I say, my son is another one. And he only uses one HA. And has been severe to profound since birth.

 

[jillio]

The medical perspective would change if they had one of their OWN children implanted with a CI. Hoo-ey, a whole lot of perspective would change.

No doubt! Maybe then they would see these kids as whole human beings instead of just defective cochleas!

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

What? You don't know deaf people who have implanted their children? I know several, including one here in Utah and another at CID. As well as a half a dozen on CI Circle.

Know them personally? Had them to your home for dinner? Socialize with them?

yes, both that i know in real life.

 

[taylorjade.]

Well, let me explain it this way...they are hearing professionals that are making a profit off of implantation. Chances are better than good that the only contact they have with deaf people at all is when they do surgery on them. They have no knowledge regarding non-invasive methods for dealing with the communication issues that go along with deafness. All they know is the medical perspective.

my sons main audiologist is deaf