2 firefighters shot, killed while battling NY blaze

[CrazyPaul]

Exactly, Jiro once said it is impossible for gun to be sold illegally this one proved him wrong.

How guns is obtained? Here is partial list of possible

Stolen
smuggled from other country (Very common)
Homemade using machine shop
Hiding until one found it, maybe until death of gun owner
Many other ways.

What I mean is that NYS is one of state that is impossible for ex con to get guns legally, yet they were able to obtain illegally.

Or hiding his gun(s) until he got out of jail.

Yes, people can get one in a black market. That's ATF's job to catch the dealers. It's not that easy. Same with drug dealers.

 

[Foxrac]

Or hiding his gun(s) until he got out of jail.

Yes, people can get one in a black market. That's ATF's job to catch the dealers. It's not that easy. Same with drug dealers.

DEA too for drugs.

 

[diehardbiker]

Many ways, yeah sad! I think we should give permanent mandatory minimum sentence of life without possibility of parole for those ex con that got caught with firearms of ANY kind with felony conviction on their record. That way, we can make sure they stay where they belong and make society little safer.

Or hiding his gun(s) until he got out of jail.

Yes, people can get one in a black market. That's ATF's job to catch the dealers. It's not that easy. Same with drug dealers.

 

[Jiro]

I would like to know where and how he got the guns! No wait a minute, someone please tell me why he is out of prison? He beat his 92 year old grandmother to death with a hammer! He should have never left prison! There is part of this problem.

what an animal.... why did they release an animal out in public? :roll:

 

[airportcop]

Now they believe that they have found the body of his 67 year old sister that lived with him. Several houses were burned actually. Neighbors say that he hated his sister and that they lived in opposite sides of the same house. Sad.

It is a federal law that no convicted felons can possess firearms. It is part of the 3 strikes you're out law. However, black powder firearms are not considered to be registered firearms in many states though. But how often have you heard of a mass killing with a primitive antique style or black powder gun?

 

[TinCanSailor]

Damn! Gun owners are our biggest problem!

I guess that since I am a legal gun owner and own a Bushmaster AR-15 and others, I am one of the problem? At 19 years old the Navy gave me training on shooting a Colt .45 and M-14 assault rifle. I carried many weapons on me for 21 years. After I became a civilian I bought my own guns for target practice as a hobby and home protection. That has been another 20 years. So far, in the 41 years of handling weapons, my guns have never shot or threatened anyone. That is normal for most of the U.S. population. The press seldom reports a gun shooting that saved a life except maybe by police. It happens most every day. Yes this thread is about this particular gunman who killed 3. The same day, a drunk driver who had his family with him drove the wrong way on I-75 in OH, collided with another car full of people and killed 3, seriously injuring 2. Not much said about that. Why was that story not important? Just another daily killing?

The gunman in NY was a convicted murderer out on parole. By law not even allowed to buy or possess guns. He had a Bushmaster AR-15, a pistol and a shotgun. They were probably stolen or purchased on the streets. Enforcement of existing laws needs to be enforced and strengthened. That is our government's responsibility. There are underlying problems. His probation officer probably only saw him once a month in his office. Never visited his home.

Since he did kill is own grandmother back in 1980 with a hammer and hated his sister, (which is probably the body in the burned out home), you think that maybe we can see a pattern of mental instability here?

Murder should be a life sentence period! Liberal courts and lawyers have blood on their hands in this case. Not legal gun owners or manufacturers.

Our constitution is fine the way it is. Changing it or ignoring it can and will cause a breakdown in our society. Some people say get rid of the Second Amendment. What if other people start saying get rid of any of the other Amendments?

The firemen who were killed and injured was a tragedy. But, please don't paint with a broad brush statement the millions of gun owners who enjoy shooting, hunting, etc., who keep their firearms safely locked up as the problem.

 

[Jiro]

I guess that since I am a legal gun owner and own a Bushmaster AR-15 and others, I am one of the problem? At 19 years old the Navy gave me training on shooting a Colt .45 and M-14 assault rifle. I carried many weapons on me for 21 years. After I became a civilian I bought my own guns for target practice as a hobby and home protection. That has been another 20 years. So far, in the 41 years of handling weapons, my guns have never shot or threatened anyone. That is normal for most of the U.S. population. The press seldom reports a gun shooting that saved a life except maybe by police. It happens most every day. Yes this thread is about this particular gunman who killed 3. The same day, a drunk driver who had his family with him drove the wrong way on I-75 in OH, collided with another car full of people and killed 3, seriously injuring 2. Not much said about that. Why was that story not important? Just another daily killing?

The gunman in NY was a convicted murderer out on parole. By law not even allowed to buy or possess guns. He had a Bushmaster AR-15, a pistol and a shotgun. They were probably stolen or purchased on the streets. Enforcement of existing laws needs to be enforced and strengthened. That is our government's responsibility. There are underlying problems. His probation officer probably only saw him once a month in his office. Never visited his home.

Since he did kill is own grandmother back in 1980 with a hammer and hated his sister, (which is probably the body in the burned out home), you think that maybe we can see a pattern of mental instability here?

Murder should be a life sentence period! Liberal courts and lawyers have blood on their hands in this case. Not legal gun owners or manufacturers.

Our constitution is fine the way it is. Changing it or ignoring it can and will cause a breakdown in our society. Some people say get rid of the Second Amendment. What if other people start saying get rid of any of the other Amendments?

The firemen who were killed and injured was a tragedy. But, please don't paint with a broad brush statement the millions of gun owners who enjoy shooting, hunting, etc., who keep their firearms safely locked up as the problem.

NRA stated that no new gun laws are needed because our current gun laws (which are strict enough) are rarely or weakly enforced.

I guess creating new laws is just the way for them to pull the wool over our eyes to distract them from their incompetences and corruption.

 

[deafdyke]

I would like to know where and how he got the guns! No wait a minute, someone please tell me why he is out of prison? He beat his 92 year old grandmother to death with a hammer! He should have never left prison! There is part of this problem.

He should have been in a mental hospital for the criminally insane.
"

I think there are still people that need to be in institutions that are a danger to themselves or others. And this is a classic example."

Exactly. We still need mental hospitals....Yes, people like this are realtively rare, but we still need locked wards for them. They'll never be able to even function in a group home!

 

[Jiro]

He should have been in a mental hospital for the criminally insane.
"
Exactly. We still need mental hospitals....Yes, people like this are realtively rare, but we still need locked wards for them. They'll never be able to even function in a group home!

electric chair is the answer to this problem.

 

[deafdyke]

TinCan, but why the heck do cilvians need assault rifles? I saw a picture of a Bushmaster, and it looks exactly like the guns they use in the army!

 

[Jiro]

TinCan, but why the heck do cilvians need assault rifles? I saw a picture of a Bushmaster, and it looks exactly like the guns they use in the army!

there you go. keyword - LOOKS.

yes it LOOKS LIKE military weapon but it is NOT the same.

 

[Foxrac]

I guess that since I am a legal gun owner and own a Bushmaster AR-15 and others, I am one of the problem? At 19 years old the Navy gave me training on shooting a Colt .45 and M-14 assault rifle. I carried many weapons on me for 21 years. After I became a civilian I bought my own guns for target practice as a hobby and home protection. That has been another 20 years. So far, in the 41 years of handling weapons, my guns have never shot or threatened anyone. That is normal for most of the U.S. population. The press seldom reports a gun shooting that saved a life except maybe by police. It happens most every day. Yes this thread is about this particular gunman who killed 3. The same day, a drunk driver who had his family with him drove the wrong way on I-75 in OH, collided with another car full of people and killed 3, seriously injuring 2. Not much said about that. Why was that story not important? Just another daily killing?

The gunman in NY was a convicted murderer out on parole. By law not even allowed to buy or possess guns. He had a Bushmaster AR-15, a pistol and a shotgun. They were probably stolen or purchased on the streets. Enforcement of existing laws needs to be enforced and strengthened. That is our government's responsibility. There are underlying problems. His probation officer probably only saw him once a month in his office. Never visited his home.

Since he did kill is own grandmother back in 1980 with a hammer and hated his sister, (which is probably the body in the burned out home), you think that maybe we can see a pattern of mental instability here?

Murder should be a life sentence period! Liberal courts and lawyers have blood on their hands in this case. Not legal gun owners or manufacturers.

Our constitution is fine the way it is. Changing it or ignoring it can and will cause a breakdown in our society. Some people say get rid of the Second Amendment. What if other people start saying get rid of any of the other Amendments?

The firemen who were killed and injured was a tragedy. But, please don't paint with a broad brush statement the millions of gun owners who enjoy shooting, hunting, etc., who keep their firearms safely locked up as the problem.

I agree with you at most cases, however I don't think that partisan have anything with court and lawyers. It is common for lawyers of murderers to get case dismissed or lessen of charge, so their job is try, try, try to get best verdict, especially OJ Simpson. I think that killer that kill firemen didn't have sufficient evidence to get charge as murder that qualify for life sentence in the prison.

For me, I'm mostly liberal and agree about murder should give a life sentence, so I don't support to have blood on my hand, even I don't believe that more gun laws will going to help because school shootings are hard to preventable.

I found any blame on gun owners because of tragedies are ridiculous.

 

[Reba]

TinCan, but why the heck do cilvians need assault rifles? I saw a picture of a Bushmaster, and it looks exactly like the guns they use in the army!

Appearances can be deceiving.

If a shooter uses it to assault other people, then it's an assault rifle. If a shooter uses it for target shooting, it's a target shooting rifle. If a shooter uses it for self defense, it's a defensive rifle. If a shooter uses it for hunting, it's a hunting rifle. It's the shooter that determines how it's used.

For some psychological reason, it also seems to matter what finish the gun has. People assume a solid black or combat digital camouflage finish is a tactical/SWAT or military weapon but a Mossy Oak, Realtree or natural wood finish conveys a regular hunting gun. Yet, it could be the exact same gun.

 

[Jiro]

 

[TinCanSailor]

TinCan, but why the heck do cilvians need assault rifles? I saw a picture of a Bushmaster, and it looks exactly like the guns they use in the army!

Looks and function are different. AR guns shoot the same as a semi-automatic pistol. One shot per pull of the trigger. The military's guns have an auto switch and their ammo will not work in an AR-15. I like mine because it is the most comfortable, accurate, easy loading, easy shooting rifle I own. It is perfect for targets, squirrels or groundhogs if you are so inclined.

"Assault" is just a nickname adapted to this style. A particular type of baseball bat could easily be titled the same if people want it.

They also come in many colors, not just black. Green, brown, camo, pink.

Even though the name "Bushmaster" has come up lately, about 15 other companies make their own variant. The largest company which makes the M-16, AR-15, M-4 is Colt. Made in CT.

I had a bow when I was a teen. I could shoot about 15 arrows into a target in a minute or so from a hip quiver. Currently, many bows come in black or camo. Should all bows be banned or kept locked up if someone uses it in the wrong manner and shoots many people with it? No.

A couple of years ago near here a distracted driver plowed into two motorcyclists stopped at a stoplight. Both killed instantly. The man payed his fine for distracted driving and went home. End of story. Did the car do it. No. We didn't demand manufacturers stop making cars. We try to increase penalties for texting while driving.

Freedom that comes from our Constitution should be embraced. Go visit other countries and see what they have. I had been in the Philippines and Spain during their Martial Law. You would not like it. You are arrested for walking down the street after midnight.

I was in the Ukraine about 15 years ago. This "free" from Russia country still can stop you on the street in a small town and demand a fine for a moving violation. (bribe is the correct term). Ignore the warning and your car will be machine gunned with you in it. The local cop will not be punished.

What about knives, clubs, bats, pipes, axes, home-made bombs? The line has to stop somewhere. If guns are banned, then only criminals and the government will be in control. Can we say Nazi Germany in the 1930's. The people there thought gun bans were fine until the Nazis started dragging Jews and Poles off to be imprisoned or killed. History always repeats itself somewhere on this earth. I'm not paranoid, I am observant. The public decried the warrant-less wire taps in the previous administration looking for terrorists. The current one expanded it and included arresting any American it wishes without due process in the name of national security. (that freedom just quietly went away).

Banning a number of types of guns never stops that that point. When they see it was successful, more are added each time it is brought up. Just saying....

 

[TinCanSailor]

Remember kids, don't point your pencil in school. It will get you expelled! :-o

 

[diehardbiker]

Here is more detail in location, it happen to be 1.5 mile east of where my friend lives. It is right next to marina area, these on fires are some old and deteriorating homes. You basically could see it from the bay.

I see that it's happening at Webster, NY.. which is near Rochester. how is that area? wealthy? poor? quiet? ghetto?

 

[Foxrac]

My BFF support federal assault weapon ban so I just feel like UGH!!! I told him that federal assault weapon ban will not going help with school shooting, so he thinks that I learned from NRA, so I said no, I just learned from some gun owners, especially Jiro, Reba (and her husband), my uncle and some of my families, so those federal ban will not work at all.

Look at Columbine HS shooting that happened during federal assault weapon ban.

 

[diehardbiker]

My BFF support federal assault weapon ban so I just feel like UGH!!! I told him that federal assault weapon ban will not going help with school shooting, so he thinks that I learned from NRA, so I said no, I just learned from some gun owners, especially Jiro, Reba (and her husband), my uncle and some of my families, so those federal ban will not work at all.

Look at Columbine HS shooting that happened during federal assault weapon ban.

Dont forget North Hollywood shoot-out, that was in 1997, and that was during assault rifle ban (including machine guns) only assault rifle took these two scumbags out and it took over an hour with hundreds and hundreds rounds. Miraculously no one got killed except these two scumbags.

 

[airportcop]

Actually they are same caliber, but not the same gun, length and cooling would make a difference.

And, as far as the other posts to why he is out of prison, in this case, yes, he should probably not have been let out. However, justice must be fair or it is not justice. Once your time is done it should be done because that is what a civil society is all about.

This sounds like another mental illness situation which prison didn't help. The guy isn't from an organization, he kills a woman in her 90's with a hammer. Mentally ill or not, he's still guilty, but we need to handle these situation better. Should he be off the street, obviously yes.

Just a note. These are exactly the same guns (barrel & action). The only difference is the clothing or furniture that they wear! One has a solid wooden stock the other has a plastic colapsible stock with a pistol grip and barrel shroud. That is the only difference. The barrel length is the same. It is called an Archangel kit that can be bought at Bass Pro or other gun shops. It in no way modifies the action of the gun or it's firing capabilities. This is the Ruger 10/22 that has been around since about 1963-64. More of these have been sold than probably any other rifle known to man. Standard magazine capacity is 10 rounds but a 50 round teardrop and a 100 round drum can be purchased. These were built for hunting and target shooting.