2 firefighters shot, killed while battling NY blaze

Jiro said:
I see that it's happening at Webster, NY.. which is near Rochester. how is that area? wealthy? poor? quiet? ghetto?
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Webster is a growing community with many middle class to upper class with new stores coming in and restaurants. Majority of workers were from kodak and Xerox and paychex .The homes and taxes are becoming like a city. Webster taxes is 3-4 X's higher then my taxes and I am nearby. Webster have 2 large well to do competitive high schools.
 
As for Kodak, very small number of employees lives there. Xerox main home is in Webster, and I thought Paychex is in Penfield which is south of Webster. But the rest, yeah pretty much so.

radioman said:
Webster is a growing community with many middle class to upper class with new stores coming in and restaurants. Majority of workers were from kodak and Xerox and paychex .The homes and taxes are becoming like a city. Webster taxes is 3-4 X's higher then my taxes and I am nearby. Webster have 2 large well to do competitive high schools.
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Shooter....is Dead....

WROC
(CNN) -
The shooter who killed two firefighters at the scene of a blaze in upstate New York on Monday is dead, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering told reporters.

"The threat has been eliminated. The shooter is believed to be deceased at the scene," he said, adding that it appears the shooter set a trap for the firefighters.

Two other firefighters were injured, police told reporters.

Authorities believe the shooter took aim at the firefighters after they left their vehicles, Pickering said earlier.

For hours, the gunfire stopped firefighters from working to extinguish the fire and forced police SWAT teams to evacuate homes in the area.

Firefighters first arrived before 6 a.m., said Rob Boutillier, Webster's fire marshal. By 9 a.m., flames had engulfed three houses and a vehicle, he said.

2 firefighters shot, killed while battling NY blaze | News - Home
 
diehardbiker said:
I am starting to think, one possible cause for rashes of shoot out. It may be the Fiscal Cliff anxiety, with the idea of automatic cuts and raise taxes, this can send plenty of people in edge and fears. So, with anger behind, it may be against government for not doing anything.

The reason behind 2nd Amendment is to protect citizen from Tyranny government. It may be because government is not doing their job and may have hurt more people, while these stubborn leaders that oppose any tax increase refusing doing anything or try to come up with compromise.

Just think, Fiscal cliff with automatic cuts and automatic tax increase and cut off unemployment benefit for those that have been unemployed for longer than 26 weeks. It is a possibility of their panic reaction, just saying.

I'm seeing pattern here, firemen were paid though taxes, school were paid though taxes, NJ has one of highest property taxes. Related to Fiscal Cliff? I am not too sure yet.

Just like back in 1928 when stock crashed, people gone crazy and jump off the window to escape the disaster.
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Is it necessary to make those fucking things up?

Oh no, not another anti-government guy!
 
CrazyPaul said:
WTF? I can't believe that you don't know that some legal gun owners can turn into murderers one day. There were many murderers who were legal gun owners.
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Some car owners can turn into murderers one day....and dog owners,shovel owners,trash bag owners,vase owners, baseball bat owners......
 
I didn't make it up. Its your fault that you have not research enough about how America was formed.
Experience in America prior to the U.S. Constitution
Ideals that helped to inspire the Second Amendment in part are symbolized by the minutemen.[25]

In no particular order, early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:[26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33]

deterring tyrannical government;[34]
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection;
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
participating in law enforcement;
enabling the people to organize a militia system.

Found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

See red font above, I didn't make it up.


CrazyPaul said:
Is it necessary to make those fucking things up?

Oh no, not another anti-government guy!
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CrazyPaul said:
Is it necessary to make those fucking things up?

Oh no, not another anti-government guy!
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huh? we're not against government... we're against tyranny and dictator. any government that doesn't uphold the Constitution is the enemy.
 
Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com
(CNN) -- A man convicted of killing his grandmother decades ago allegedly ambushed firefighters on Monday, fatally shooting two of them as they arrived to battle a blaze in upstate New York, police said.

Two other firefighters were wounded in the attack in the Rochester-area town of Webster. Investigators believe the suspect, William Spengler, 62, deliberately lured them to a house fire, Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.

Authorities do not know how Spengler, who died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound at the scene, obtained the weapon he used in Monday's shooting or why he opened fire, Pickering told reporters.

Spengler was convicted in 1981 of first-degree manslaughter in the death of his grandmother and had been released on supervised parole, Pickering said.

"It is possible that a sister of Mr. Spengler is unaccounted for," Pickering said, adding that her last known address was at the residence where the shooting occurred.

For more than three hours on Monday, the threat of gunfire stopped firefighters from battling the blaze and forced police SWAT teams to evacuate 33 people in the neighborhood of small waterfront homes.

Seven houses were destroyed in the fire and it was unclear if everyone had been evacuated safely.

"I'm hoping that everyone was able to escape from the inferno," Pickering said. "Those houses were close together."

Monday's shooting illustrated the need to address gun control and mental health issues, Pickering said.

"For the last 20 years we have been turning people loose and de-institutionalizing people, and I think we've swung too far," Pickering said. "I think there are still people that need to be in institutions that are a danger to themselves or others. And this is a classic example."

Pickering said two firefighters died at the scene. The two injured firefighters were hospitalized in intensive care, officials said. An off-duty police officer passing by the area also suffered shrapnel wounds, Pickering said.

"It does appear that it was a trap that was set," said Pickering, who choked back tears as he talked about the firefighters who were killed. One of them, Lt. Michael Chiapperini, was also a police lieutenant with about 20 years on the force, he said.

"We are a safe community, and to have tragedy befall us like this is just tremendous. ... You know, these people get up in the middle of the night to go put out fire," he said. "They don't expect to be shot and killed."

The shooting occurred amid a renewed gun control debate after the December 14 elementary school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, that killed 26 people, most of them children. The gunman in that case also apparently killed his mother and himself.

The head of a lobbying group that represents first responders said the Monday shooting was "senseless and cruel."

"The firefighters who responded today were performing a selfless, meaningful service to their community, unaware that a cold-hearted maniac was planning to ambush them and take their lives," said Harold Schaitberger, general president of the Washington-based International Association of Fire Fighters. "Coming on the heels of the horrific tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, and on Christmas Eve, this shooting is even harder to comprehend."

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo described the Webster shooting as "horrific." And the state's attorney general called it a "senseless tragedy"

"As this investigation unfolds, we stand with our partners in law enforcement to ensure that lethal weapons are out of the hands of dangerous people, so that brave New Yorkers who risk their lives every day to protect us are not exposed to additional danger," Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman said in a statement.

Firefighters first arrived at the Webster fire before 6 a.m., said Rob Boutillier, the town's fire marshal.

One firefighter escaped from the scene in his own vehicle about an hour after he was shot and was taken to a hospital by an ambulance from another location, Boutillier said. Another wounded firefighter was conscious and speaking when he was removed from the scene, he said.

The wounded firefighters were in intensive care Monday at Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, New York, officials said.

It was unclear what type of weapon was used in the Webster shooting.

"I know that many people are going to be asking, 'Were they assault rifles?' " I don't know that. I can't answer that at this time," Pickering told reporters.

President Barack Obama has set a January deadline for "concrete proposals" to deal with gun violence.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, has said she will introduce legislation to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. The White House has said that the president supports that effort.

Speaking to reporters Friday, the head of the National Rifle Association proposed putting armed guards in schools after the mass shooting in order to protect children.

On Sunday, NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press" that he would not support new gun restrictions, saying most gun laws now on the books are rarely enforced.
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ugh.... suicidal shooter.... the worst kind of evil.... :(
 
I would like to know where and how he got the guns! No wait a minute, someone please tell me why he is out of prison? He beat his 92 year old grandmother to death with a hammer! He should have never left prison! There is part of this problem.
 
airportcop said:
I would like to know where and how he got the guns! No wait a minute, someone please tell me why he is out of prison? He beat his 92 year old grandmother to death with a hammer! He should have never left prison! There is part of this problem.
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Yep.
 
Found more information, and it already proved that gun law FAILED to stop this scumbag from shooting fireman. This scumbag is 62 years old EX-convict, NYS has one of the strictest gun law in the nation, even stricter than Federal. NYS prohibits any ex con from owning firearms of any kind. Police are trying to figure out how he got hands with gun.
I recall there was news, near my home one of ex convict got busted with dozens of firearms obtained illegal along with drugs. I'm trying to find the news and it was few months ago. Once again New York is one of state that it is impossible for ex con to obtain gun legally.
 
Jiro said:
you don't know if they had guns legally. chance is not.

gun owner means a person who owned gun legally.
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We now know that the killer was a convicted felon, so there is no way that he had legal possession of a gun.
 
diehardbiker said:
Found more information, and it already proved that gun law FAILED to stop this scumbag from shooting fireman. This scumbag is 62 years old EX-convict, NYS has one of the strictest gun law in the nation, even stricter than Federal. NYS prohibits any ex con from owning firearms of any kind. Police are trying to figure out how he got hands with gun.
I recall there was news, near my home one of ex convict got busted with dozens of firearms obtained illegal along with drugs. I'm trying to find the news and it was few months ago. Once again New York is one of state that it is impossible for ex con to obtain gun legally.
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In bold - same with most states, the felon convicts are obviously disqualify from own the gun legally.

I'm wonder if he gets gun from black market or given by his families or private seller or steal the gun from somewhere that bypass the background check.

or, it could be third party purchases.
 
Exactly, Jiro once said it is impossible for gun to be sold illegally this one proved him wrong.

How guns is obtained? Here is partial list of possible

Stolen
smuggled from other country (Very common)
Homemade using machine shop
Hiding until one found it, maybe until death of gun owner
Many other ways.

What I mean is that NYS is one of state that is impossible for ex con to get guns legally, yet they were able to obtain illegally.

Foxrac said:
In bold - same with most states, the felon convicts are obviously disqualify from own the gun legally.

I'm wonder if he gets gun from black market or given by his families or private seller or steal the gun from somewhere that bypass the background check.

or, it could be third party purchases.
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