Your personal view only

[jillio]

no...... You failed to see my simple point. You complained that (American) doctors only care about money. I simply explained why is it "like that" but it's not what you think. I already explained the cost of becoming doctor and what it takes. American doctors study for years and it costs tremendous amount of money and sacrifice for that. Don't they deserve to be compensated for it? It's a powerful incentive for them to put in sacrifice, time, and cost to become a good doctor. Socialist-type health care way is not a great incentive.

Well, to be realistic, they knew the cost of the education going in. They chose it freely. Therefore, they accepted that part of the resposnibility of becoming a medical practitioner involved high educational costs.

Physicians do get paid for their services, not the least of which is non-monetary in nature. Perhaps more would do better to concentrate on the intrinsic rewards of saving a life or reducing pain than on whether or not they will be able to take a cruise 3 times this year.

 

[Jiro]

Well, to be realistic, they knew the cost of the education going in. They chose it freely. Therefore, they accepted that part of the resposnibility of becoming a medical practitioner involved high educational costs.

Physicians do get paid for their services, not the least of which is non-monetary in nature. Perhaps more would do better to concentrate on the intrinsic rewards of saving a life or reducing pain than on whether or not they will be able to take a cruise 3 times this year.

Their reward of saving a life or reducing the pain is to have 3 cruise trips this year. Imagine the stress of deciding the fate of the patient at one's hand. Oh lord..... imagine you have to deal with hundred of patients' lives a year at your hand.... so yes you do deserve 3 cruise trips a year just to take that stress out. we wouldn't want you to make a fatal mistake due to stress, don't we?

 

[jillio]

Their reward of saving a life or reducing the pain is to have 3 cruise trips this year. Imagine the stress of deciding the fate of the patient at one's hand. Oh lord..... imagine you have to deal with hundred of patients' lives a year at your hand.... so yes you do deserve 3 cruise trips a year just to take that stress out. we wouldn't want you to make a fatal mistake due to stress, don't we?

Then the persepctive is skewed. If one enters a service field for the primary purpose of making money, one is in the wrong field. One enters the service field for the primary purpose of doing service for others. The monetary gains should be secondary.

BTW, my husband was a doctor, and I have many friends who are physicans and work in the health care field.

 

[Jiro]

Then the persepctive is skewed. If one enters a service field for the primary purpose of making money, one is in the wrong field. One enters the service field for the primary purpose of doing service for others. The monetary gains should be secondary.

BTW, my husband was a doctor, and I have many friends who are physicans and work in the health care field.

skewed? perhaps.... perhaps.... The one who enters the service solely for big bucks are the one who usually doesn't get accepted to medical program. But then again... it happens. and yes - the monetary gains should be secondary and it's still is. It's just that these people are just complaining those "secondary monetary gains" are too high. Oh well

I suppose you want to charge cheap/low for your psychiatric service? $50 for 1-hr session, si?

 

[Babyblue]

Why do people work?

Of course to make money

Now it is time for me to return to work. So I can collect a paycheck.

 

[jillio]

skewed? perhaps.... perhaps.... The one who enters the service solely for big bucks are the one who usually doesn't get accepted to medical program. But then again... it happens. and yes - the monetary gains should be secondary and it's still is. It's just that these people are just complaining those "secondary monetary gains" are too high. Oh well

I suppose you want to charge cheap/low for your psychiatric service? $50 for 1-hr session, si?

Well, I don't provide psychiatric services....those are provided by an M.D. I provide counseling services for mental health and disability issues, and serve as an advocate in the education of deaf students. And, yes, I charge for those services. I also work a second job providing counseling and support for victims of domestic violence and sexual assualt. As a matter of fact, I went to the hospital on a crisis call for a 15 year old that had been sexually assaulted at 1:30 this morning. A nurse did the examination, and I provided crisis support for the victim and her family. The doctor sat at the nurses station and signed a prescription for the meds. And I guarantee you that he made more during that period of time than either the nurse or I did that were actually providing the sevices. In fact, he made more than both of us put together. Likewise, I have just as much time invested in my education as does that physician. The specially certified sexual assault examiner nurse and I together have years spent receiving our educations.

Does that mean that I somehow "deserve" to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars, and go on a cruise 3 times a year? No, it doesn't. It means that I invested money in my own education to put myself in a better position to serve others. I guarantee you, I am not getting wealthy from my choice of a career, despite the fact that I have invested as much time and money in obtaining it as a physician has in his or hers.

I work for non-profit agencies. We also provide the services that our clients need for free to them.

 

[jillio]

Why do people work?

Of course to make money

Now it is time for me to return to work. So I can collect a paycheck.

People have jobs to make money. They have careers for many other reasons.

 

[Jiro]

Well, I don't provide psychiatric services....those are provided by an M.D. I provide counseling services for mental health and disability issues, and serve as an advocate in the education of deaf students. And, yes, I charge for those services. I also work a second job providing counseling and support for victims of domestic violence and sexual assualt. As a matter of fact, I went to the hospital on a crisis call for a 15 year old that had been sexually assaulted at 1:30 this morning. A nurse did the examination, and I provided crisis support for the victim and her family. The doctor sat at the nurses station and signed a prescription for the meds. And I guarantee you that he made more during that period of time than either the nurse or I did that were actually providing the sevices. In fact, he made more than both of us put together. Likewise, I have just as much time invested in my education as does that physician. The specially certified sexual assault examiner nurse and I together have years spent receiving our educations.

Does that mean that I somehow "deserve" to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars, and go on a cruise 3 times a year? No, it doesn't. It means that I invested money in my own education to put myself in a better position to serve others. I guarantee you, I am not getting wealthy from my choice of a career, despite the fact that I have invested as much time and money in obtaining it as a physician has in his or hers.

I work for non-profit agencies. We also provide the services that our clients need for free to them.

ah yes yes my deepest apology for my incorrection about your service. Since you were pursuing ph.d... I thought that you were interested in psychiatry or something related. I'm still hopelessly confused about the psychology field and the differences. My gf and my best friend's gf (on trail to become Air Force psychiatrist) repeatedly explained it to me but let's just say I'm an ignorant

and yes it's no doubt that the doctor made more than you, nurse, and even me combined in just 5 min. but hey.... he has the authority, knowledge, and legal qualification to write prescription and to sign his name on medical report.. and it wasn't cheap and easy to get there. To sign a piece of paper can be stressful. He could get fired (or even imprisoned) or the patient could die if he signed with negligence. How he lives his life is up to him. As long as he can do the job, fine with me. Maybe he does look cocky and arrogant when he signed a piece of paper but just don't forget what it took for him to get there. Sadly... maybe he lost a sense of humility and caring along the way.... Let's just remember that he is not qualified for counseling purpose. That's where you came in. It would be nice if you can be well-compensated for it... Perhaps Obama will change that.

Don't get me wrong - I still think it's grossly overpriced but... what can I say? I need a competent, highly-qualified doctor who can fix me.... even if he was married 3x, has illegitimated son, and have several mansions/cars. His personal life is of no concern to me as long as he can fix me up... Even a british doctor in European's universal health care lives in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with Audi with his kid in private school (that's from THE SICKO).

I do certainly wish that there are more noble doctors like "Doctors Without Borders." Gotta be realistic in here...

 

[jillio]

ah yes yes my deepest apology for my incorrection about your service. Since you were pursuing ph.d... I thought that you were interested in psychiatry or something related. I'm still hopelessly confused about the psychology field and the differences. My gf and my best friend's gf (on trail to become Air Force psychiatrist) repeatedly explained it to me but let's just say I'm an ignorant

and yes it's no doubt that the doctor made more than you, nurse, and even me combined in just 5 min. but hey.... he has the authority, knowledge, and legal qualification to write prescription and to sign his name on medical report.. and it wasn't cheap and easy to get there. To sign a piece of paper can be stressful. He could get fired (or even imprisoned) or the patient could die if he signed with negligence. How he lives his life is up to him. As long as he can do the job, fine with me. Maybe he does look cocky and arrogant when he signed a piece of paper but just don't forget what it took for him to get there. Sadly... maybe he lost a sense of humility and caring along the way.... Let's just remember that he is not qualified for counseling purpose. That's where you came in. It would be nice if you can be well-compensated for it... Perhaps Obama will change that.

Don't get me wrong - I still think it's grossly overpriced but... what can I say? I need a competent, highly-qualified doctor who can fix me.... even if he was married 3x, has illegitimated son, and have several mansions/cars. His personal life is of no concern to me as long as he can fix me up... Even a british doctor in European's universal health care lives in a nice house in a nice neighborhood with Audi with his kid in private school (that's from THE SICKO).

I do certainly wish that there are more noble doctors like "Doctors Without Borders." Gotta be realistic in here...

Ah, but the nurse and I are licensed in our repsective fields, and risk the same consequences as the doctor.

The difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist can be reduced to a couple of simple things: a psychologist is a Ph.D. and does not have prescribing priviledges (although there are statutes being presented that would change the prescription priviledge), and a psychiatrist is an M.D. that does have prescription priviledges. Other than that, their education is the same amount of time, but the psychologist has a greater focus throughout that education on treatment of mental disorders. Both must have internships. Both must be licensed. Both treat mental disorders.

I, as an Ph.D. Ed/Counseling combine the therapeutic activities of treatment with educational aspects of treatment. And I too, and required to do internship hours, and post doc under supervision the same as a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

 

[Jiro]

Ah, but the nurse and I are licensed in our repsective fields, and risk the same consequences as the doctor.

The difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist can be reduced to a couple of simple things: a psychologist is a Ph.D. and does not have prescribing priviledges (although there are statutes being presented that would change the prescription priviledge), and a psychiatrist is an M.D. that does have prescription priviledges. Other than that, their education is the same amount of time, but the psychologist has a greater focus throughout that education on treatment of mental disorders. Both must have internships. Both must be licensed. Both treat mental disorders.

I, as an Ph.D. Ed/Counseling combine the therapeutic activities of treatment with educational aspects of treatment. And I too, and required to do internship hours, and post doc under supervision the same as a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

I'm not gonna be able to remember those...... :Oops:

 

[jillio]

I'm not gonna be able to remember those...... :Oops:

I tried.

 

[Hear Again]

As a matter of fact, I went to the hospital on a crisis call for a 15 year old that had been sexually assaulted at 1:30 this morning. A nurse did the examination, and I provided crisis support for the victim and her family. The doctor sat at the nurses station and signed a prescription for the meds. And I guarantee you that he made more during that period of time than either the nurse or I did that were actually providing the sevices. In fact, he made more than both of us put together.

I have no doubt about that. Would you believe it costs $100 for a 15 minute psychiatric visit? No wonder psychiatrists make the exhorbitant amount of money they do.

 

[shel90]

Well, I don't provide psychiatric services....those are provided by an M.D. I provide counseling services for mental health and disability issues, and serve as an advocate in the education of deaf students. And, yes, I charge for those services. I also work a second job providing counseling and support for victims of domestic violence and sexual assualt. As a matter of fact, I went to the hospital on a crisis call for a 15 year old that had been sexually assaulted at 1:30 this morning. A nurse did the examination, and I provided crisis support for the victim and her family. The doctor sat at the nurses station and signed a prescription for the meds. And I guarantee you that he made more during that period of time than either the nurse or I did that were actually providing the sevices. In fact, he made more than both of us put together. Likewise, I have just as much time invested in my education as does that physician. The specially certified sexual assault examiner nurse and I together have years spent receiving our educations.

Does that mean that I somehow "deserve" to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars, and go on a cruise 3 times a year? No, it doesn't. It means that I invested money in my own education to put myself in a better position to serve others. I guarantee you, I am not getting wealthy from my choice of a career, despite the fact that I have invested as much time and money in obtaining it as a physician has in his or hers.

I work for non-profit agencies. We also provide the services that our clients need for free to them.

You and I deserve to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars and go on cruises 3 times a year for all the hard we we do servicing others! Teachers are underpaid too..

Guess drs need to get underpaid just like we do and then they can bitch and complain about the high cost of living.

 

[shel90]

I have no doubt about that. Would you believe it costs $100/hour for a 15 minute psychiatric visit? No wonder psychiatrists make the exhorbitant amount of money they do.

Now, that's extreme...$100 an hour. Wrong..so wrong.

Same goes for lawyers who charge that much too. No wonder America working class are underserved..we cant get free service but we cant afford these kinds of prices so we are stuck without getting the care we need.

 

[jillio]

I have no doubt about that. Would you believe it costs $100 for a 15 minute psychiatric visit? No wonder psychiatrists make the exhorbitant amount of money they do.

Yep, I believe it. And I can promise you, my fees or the fees of a psychologist are no where near that!

 

[jillio]

You and I deserve to own a $250,000 home, 4 cars and go on cruises 3 times a year for all the hard we we do servicing others! Teachers are underpaid too..

Guess drs need to get underpaid just like we do and then they can bitch and complain about the high cost of living.

Yep, if we are going to base it on cost of education and nature of the field you and I should be making the same income as a physician.

 

[jillio]

Now, that's extreme...$100 an hour. Wrong..so wrong.

Same goes for lawyers who charge that much too. No wonder America working class are underserved..we cant get free service but we cant afford these kinds of prices so we are stuck without getting the care we need.

And they get that $100 whether the visit took 15 minutes or 60 minutes.

 

[Hear Again]

Now, that's extreme...$100 an hour. Wrong..so wrong.

Same goes for lawyers who charge that much too. No wonder America working class are underserved..we cant get free service but we cant afford these kinds of prices so we are stuck without getting the care we need.

I agree with you Shel. In the case of counseling and psychiatry, clients can go to free clinics that charge little or nothing on a sliding scale. However, most of the time, the qualify of services leaves alot to be desired (although free services are better than none). I know someone who has bipolar who went to a free clinic and walked out the door with a prescription for an antidepressant without a mood stabilizer. (Antidepressants given to people with bipolar without a mood stabilizer can cause mania.) Apparently (for whatever reason), the psychiatrist refused to give her a mood stabilizer in addition to an antidepressant. This person would have asked the psychiatrist for a mood stabilizer in addition to an antidepressant, but at the time she was newly diagnosed and did not know how antidepressants can cause mania.

The same is true for lawyers. While people can get assistance from Legal Aid, many times these services are of poor quality and do not compare to the services provided by lawyers who charge a fee per hour.

 

[netrox]

I am voting for Obama because he represents change. He's a positive man, and he is extremely passionate about helping Americans. He is well cultured and he has taught the Constitutional Law for over a decade... and that's IMPORTANT to me. He speaks very well and his speeches are very consistent and well composed.

He also represent diversity - he's a product of biracial parents so he clearly knows well about race and shows tolerance for different ideas.

He will hike taxes for the RICH making over $250,000 and remember, that also means that he will be willing to pay MORE taxes to benefit the American economy yet at the same time, he will give low middle class more tax cuts - that means if you make less than 60,000 a year, you'll get at least TWICE more tax cuts - bigger tax refunds on your way if you elect Obama! Under McCain, you'd get $319 but under Obama, you'd get $1,042!

Remember the Clinton era - the economy was one of the best we ever had and when Clinton left, we had SURPLUS and now Bush is leaving with a HUGE deficit.

Obama intends to increase the tax rate back to Clinton's rate which is 39% for the rich. If you think 39% is high, then think of the good old days in 1950's - lots of middle class, low crime, moral people, well structured, well cared... do you know how much the rich had to pay? They were taxed at 91%! Yes, you heard that... the rich was taxed at 91%! Guess where the money went? Their money was spent on interstate highways and superior military power that ended World War II. None of that would be possible if we didn't tax the rich that much money!

Obama inspires millions of people to vote. Today, I waited TWO HOURS in line to vote. And it's worth the wait!

 

[faire_jour]

I am voting for Obama because he represents change. He's a positive man, and he is extremely passionate about helping Americans. He is well cultured and he has taught the Constitutional Law for over a decade... and that's IMPORTANT to me. He speaks very well and his speeches are very consistent and well composed.

He also represent diversity - he's a product of biracial parents so he clearly knows well about race and shows tolerance for different ideas.

He will hike taxes for the RICH making over $250,000 and remember, that also means that he will be willing to pay MORE taxes to benefit the American economy yet at the same time, he will give low middle class more tax cuts - that means if you make less than 60,000 a year, you'll get at least TWICE more tax cuts - bigger tax refunds on your way if you elect Obama! Under McCain, you'd get $319 but under Obama, you'd get $1,042!

Remember the Clinton era - the economy was one of the best we ever had and when Clinton left, we had SURPLUS and now Bush is leaving with a HUGE deficit.

Obama intends to increase the tax rate back to Clinton's rate which is 39% for the rich. If you think 39% is high, then think of the good old days in 1950's - lots of middle class, low crime, moral people, well structured, well cared... do you know how much the rich had to pay? They were taxed at 91%! Yes, you heard that... the rich was taxed at 91%! Guess where the money went? Their money was spent on interstate highways and superior military power that ended World War II. None of that would be possible if we didn't tax the rich that much money!

Obama inspires millions of people to vote. Today, I waited TWO HOURS in line to vote. And it's worth the wait!