wow! mci ip-relay operators posting relay transcripts on the internet

sean1552

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Wow. Wow. Wow. Mci ip relay operators are posting relay transcripts on the internet at http://ip_relay_scams.aimoo.com

Looks like they are having a huge fight among moderators right now because one tried banning this behavior and was overruled by the other members.

They have a private thread called "deaf bashing" where they call deaf TRS users obscene names or imply that TRS users are "stupid"

Nice to know what the relay really thinks. This is terrible.
 
This is only getting more interesting.

-- this text is pasted from the relay site --

The embittered ranks over on the IP Relay forum decided that it would be a good idea to post transcripts of (legitimate) relay calls online. Along with colorful descriptions of how "dumb" ASL users are.

ASL does not translate directly into English and vice versa. This is like calling a perfectly intelligent foreigner "stupid" because you dont understand his attempts at communicating in conversational English.

Being a moderator, I deleted the offending posts and redirected those involved. It turned into an all-out flame session. Well then, (swearing) am I to come along and start moderating posts?

So I posted their "private" deaf bashing posts in the "public" forum. This enraged everyone. How dare I post their PRIVATE communications publicly?

Oh. Sort of like they were posting verbatim telephone conversations (more or less) publicly?

Meanwhile, another post lamented that deaf people don't care about TRS fraud, all they care about is their anonymity.

Hmm. Cue the next post where I'm lambasted for depriving the poor angry relay operators of THEIR right to anonymity.

The logical contradictions apparent in this whole mess are beyond anything I can even summarize at this point.

1) Deaf, hard of hearing, and speech disabled users DO have an FCC mandated right to confidentiality. I do not know of a single prosecution to date. The statute would consider this a wiretapping offense (under the Communications Act) as it's a verbatim record of a telephone call (written in this case) authorized by neither party to the call.

2) Relay operators do not have a "right" to break this law, even "anonymously".

I decided that some of the more vocal users were apparently too (swearing) stupid to reason with. Ironically enough. How do you guys feel about a relay operator bashing forum?

I received a number of "threats" that they were going to go start their own board where embittered people can mock deaf TRS users and post all the call logs they want. I would highly reccommend AOL or Usenet, or wait perhaps more appropriately for this clique, pogo.com.

(swearing)

Let's end the hypocrisy now. I introduce to you the new IP Relay Operator Bashing Forum.
 
Let's end the hypocrisy now. I introduce to you the new IP Relay Operator Bashing Forum.

sean
Just because there may be a bad apples, Don't mean you have be a one...
There's legal action you can take! Which I did for LMM. company is looking into this. Beleive me, They will be able to know who these people are. If they are RO They can be fired... If they are kids/people play sick game, they can end up in court!
When it comes to LMM Cuture, She don't take thing's lightly. She rely on ISP/VP/TTD for her phone... When she use RO, They have to understand ASL,because as people here know she write's in an ASL form... They have no trouble understand what she is saying.. Only a few times the hearie will ask the RO to ask LMM to repete...
To Bash RO is very wrong LMM say's.. "They are our gap between D/ hearing world!"
I hope company shut down that site, It would be a blessing! The Deaf Community don't need this kind of shit! New people may think this how people who use ASL are!
Thank's for the site, But please don't bash RO just because you read something on the net. Because they can be lying who they are.

LMM
 
I don't see relay transcripts published on that lame AIMOO message board, unless they are hidden to the public eyes. Anyways, I don't believe there is much you could do about these people.

EDITED: Did I read right that you are a Moderator of that site?
 
opr here i will report these message boards to my supervisor on my next working day they can go from there and take the appropriate actions which will likely be finding out who these people are and firing them from the ro position

it is totally unacceptable and a shows an obvious and blatant disregard for confidentiality law

having deaf people distrusting and disliking the relay svc does not make for smooth calls and good relations between deaf people and relay operators
 
I'm pretty sure the relay services know of that website, and a few others. Those boards have been around for two years and I read that they try their best to keep relay managers banned from the site.
 
Um...

Now, here is the issue at hand. I myself am a relay operator. I'm not aware fully of what other relay services are doing but I know one thing for a fact. Not all relay operators/services are are vehement and evil.

There are several occasions where you, the deaf user, will abuse us. Not all deaf users do this mind you. But a surprisingly large amount of deaf users DO abuse CA's/Operators. Impatience leads to name calling, threats ("I'm going to report you" - "I'm going to get you fired!" - etc.), as well as lying to the hearing user to get them to yell at us ("They said you said this and I don't believe it."). Now, granted we're not allowed to say anything and apparently it's against the FCC laws to have a quickword or a prompt to alert the DU (deaf user) or HU (hearing user) to follow etiquette, which is very frustrating. I can't tell you how many times I've gone home crying after being called a f**** or a b**** for something I couldn't control. Like the software we use to process calls often malfunctions. As most software does, but does that make it right to abuse me? We have guidelines to follow. We can't do certain things and it really isn't under our control. You say we don't understand your frustration but actually, we do have people who work at our facilities that were born deaf. During training we are briefed over deaf culture, understanding deaf users, etc. We're not heartless and yes, we try to understand the best we can.

This still does not permit the posting of any such transcript or any call content. Even if they are fraudulent calls or otherwise non-deaf or hard of hearing individuals abusing the service. I really apologize for what's going on, even though I'm not one of those operators. Anyway...

You can :rifle: the operators all you want. Haha. But remember, they're the ones helping you make calls. They're the ones devoting their time to helping you communicate. Don't paintbrush all operators. Some of us are good people. :cool:
 
This is only getting more interesting.

-- this text is pasted from the relay site --

The embittered ranks over on the IP Relay forum decided that it would be a good idea to post transcripts of (legitimate) relay calls online. Along with colorful descriptions of how "dumb" ASL users are.

ASL does not translate directly into English and vice versa. This is like calling a perfectly intelligent foreigner "stupid" because you dont understand his attempts at communicating in conversational English.

Being a moderator, I deleted the offending posts and redirected those involved. It turned into an all-out flame session. Well then, (swearing) am I to come along and start moderating posts?

So I posted their "private" deaf bashing posts in the "public" forum. This enraged everyone. How dare I post their PRIVATE communications publicly?

Oh. Sort of like they were posting verbatim telephone conversations (more or less) publicly?

Meanwhile, another post lamented that deaf people don't care about TRS fraud, all they care about is their anonymity.

Hmm. Cue the next post where I'm lambasted for depriving the poor angry relay operators of THEIR right to anonymity.

The logical contradictions apparent in this whole mess are beyond anything I can even summarize at this point.

1) Deaf, hard of hearing, and speech disabled users DO have an FCC mandated right to confidentiality. I do not know of a single prosecution to date. The statute would consider this a wiretapping offense (under the Communications Act) as it's a verbatim record of a telephone call (written in this case) authorized by neither party to the call.

2) Relay operators do not have a "right" to break this law, even "anonymously".

I decided that some of the more vocal users were apparently too (swearing) stupid to reason with. Ironically enough. How do you guys feel about a relay operator bashing forum?

I received a number of "threats" that they were going to go start their own board where embittered people can mock deaf TRS users and post all the call logs they want. I would highly reccommend AOL or Usenet, or wait perhaps more appropriately for this clique, pogo.com.

(swearing)

Let's end the hypocrisy now. I introduce to you the new IP Relay Operator Bashing Forum.

So you are telling everyone that two wrongs make a right?
 
a quick question, why are converstations being posted? what if it had important information like a name, ssn, and address?
 
that site seems to be the boards for the IP relay operators -- i dont use them after seeing plenty of unprofessional behavior and not being in compliance with the confidentiality agreement that should have been in place (unless it already is) and a constant violation of that over at their boards -- so no i dont use them anymore -- i use other relay services instead that have a more strict code of ethics and etc altho i call the relay via the VP now a days
 
a quick question, why are converstations being posted? what if it had important information like a name, ssn, and address?

Okay here's the thing. The majority of calls posted are fraudulent calls and unless you're comitting fraud you have nothing to worry about. Believe it or not there are people from Africa pretending to be deaf and user the relay service to commit international fraud. No they're not REAL deaf users.

Relay operators should be careful about what they post. Especially in cases of the FCC law, and yeah it's a big problem. It's really never safe to give out your ssn (Social Security number) or ccn (Credit Card number)...but you should never feel violated, especially on a service designed to help YOU as an individual, pay your bills, access accounts, just like any other hearing person would do over the phone.

The VP device is free through Sorenson Communications, all you need is high-speed internet/cable/DSL to hook it up. If you're paranoid use VP. I'd be happy to see your smiling faces.
 
Yeah

I am indifferent to either side of this dispute. As a relay operator unaffiliated with that 'deaf user bashing' site, I am both annoyed and irritated by both parts. Because I as a relay operator am being harrassed, called stupid, sworn at, and otherwise belittled by deaf/hoh users because of what others have done.

MCI sucks anyway, service is terrible, my deaf friends hate it. They now use the friendlier and more convenient siprelay (Sorenson IP Relay) instead.

But you are just as much wrong as the relay operators if you bash on them.
 
I'm pretty sure the relay services know of that website, and a few others. Those boards have been around for two years and I read that they try their best to keep relay managers banned from the site.

As a country, unfortunately, we are entitled to our rights as individuals to have freedom of speech. Both deaf users and hearing users (IP relay operator or otherwise). Because they do not supply their relay operator numbers or their names...and usually delete confidential information they are not neccesarily breaking the law. If the conversation was posted verbatim then this would be seriously looked into. However, they don't supply the company they work for or the deaf user's IP address or user name. There is no solid proof or evidence that these are REAL calls; therefore, the government can't really enforce anything without proof.

The software used to process relay calls should have a no click and no paste capability as to decrease this problem...I think we'd see a significant change.

A lot of relay services know about this. Yes, they do. But they can't stop people from going home and doing it on their own accord. Sadly to say it'll probably never stop. I'm really sorry you have to feel violated because of a few select idiots.
 
How would operators have access to these conversations? No records of calls are kept. Especially not trancripts. I smell red herring.
 
How would operators have access to these conversations? No records of calls are kept. Especially not trancripts. I smell red herring.

They have access by clicking and pasting call content. That is how they have the call transcripts. You select all of the call content (which is in text, obviously) and then you click copy and paste it into a document program and e-mail it or otherwise post it on the internet.

Your calls are being tracked believe it or not. That is how companies get paid. The time that you are on your calls is the time that is being accounted for and that is how relay companies make money. The government through taxes is paying the relay by the minutes that they connect your calls.
 
They have access by clicking and pasting call content. That is how they have the call transcripts. You select all of the call content (which is in text, obviously) and then you click copy and paste it into a document program and e-mail it or otherwise post it on the internet.

Your calls are being tracked believe it or not. That is how companies get paid. The time that you are on your calls is the time that is being accounted for and that is how relay companies make money. The government through taxes is paying the relay by the minutes that they connect your calls.

You obviously don't work for MCI. Which company are you with?
 
You obviously don't work for MCI. Which company are you with?

Sorry to be evasive; I hold that information confidential for the security of my job.

But you are correct; I do not work for MCI.

Also, if you are referring to "How would you know anything about MCI's call processing, etc..."; they are all the same...trust me. Our software is quite similar. Only one difference - people at my relay service aren't stupid.

The only thing on calls legally recorded is the time the call was placed and the duration. The transcript is immediately disgarded as soon as the call closes. Or at least it should be. But it seems it's slipping through the cracks with some bad apple relay operators.

The transcript is in front of the relay operator as they are relaying. Whether in real time split screen or chat option or window through AOL, the whole entire conversation is there; therefore, they have access to click and paste...
 
Wow, I couldnt find a deaf bashing link on that page, but knowing it had been there once was disturbing.
I understand that being an operator is not always easy because people do get angry with you if you don't read their minds or do what they want when it goes against the FCC. I had a caller this morning get angry with me for not wanting to chat with them, when really, I would LOVE to be able to spend time conversing with a caller but we're not allowed to because it will prevent another caller from getting through. I was told that I'm mean and the caller hung up. What if that caller sends in a review of me? I'll get a bad client review for doing my job correctly.

There are dozens of things that callers get mad at us for that we can't control, and the worst part is that we're not allowed to step outside protocol to explain that a certain automated system won't connect to a live person, or that we can't call certain modalities and so on. If we were allowed to explain these things to callers properly, they would have an easier time understanding what was going on [especially callers whose english is at the level that say, my spanish is...] and then they wouldn't abuse us, which in turn wouldn't inspire some relay operators to bash the callers.

At my company we are not able to cut and paste any transcript, nor are we capable of emailing anything from a call, period. It sounds like MCI is the main culprit here, and its interesting too that word on the street is that those operators also hate the company because they aren't paid enough- I have a feeling that the higher the wages and respect towards operators from management, the better the service to the deaf community, which may be a motive for people to choose relay based on how fair each company's labor policy is.

While this obviously won't erase the entire event from your mind, you might breathe at least a small sigh of relief to know that where I work, if someone mocks a caller for their English skills etc, there are always a dozen people ready to stand up and say, 'hey, how would you feel making phone calls in your second language, if you even have one.' I simply have no time for that bullshit, especially because we exist to serve a community that already faces obstacles in communication, and we see that everyday when we explain relay to rude people at the other end of the line.

In the meantime I agree that labelling us all as bad people won't solve the problem, we all need to judge our interactions on a compassionate case by case basis. We all need to remember that when we're frustrated, there might be something on the other end of the line that is beyond the callers/operators control. Maybe the caller is trying to type while a child tugs at them, maybe the caller is a senior who isn't used to a keypad. Maybe the operator is having technical difficulty or they simply can't find a live person because its lunchtime or outside business hours etc.

Also, remember the operator numbers too, so that you can evaluate us. If we're good, please send us the feedback, it makes the job far more rewarding and encouraging. And if you need to complain, by all means do but make sure your problem is with a bad operator and not with a technical problem [like the software dropping the call so it looks like we've hung up] or a miscommunication [like getting angry at the operator for not being able to reach a live person or prevent a rude business owner from hanging up. In conclusion, you have my total solidarity and I'm glad I saw your post so I can warn my coworkers and supervisors to keep a lookout. Smile. SK
 
Wow, I couldnt find a deaf bashing link on that page, but knowing it had been there once was disturbing.
I understand that being an operator is not always easy because people do get angry with you if you don't read their minds or do what they want when it goes against the FCC. I had a caller this morning get angry with me for not wanting to chat with them, when really, I would LOVE to be able to spend time conversing with a caller but we're not allowed to because it will prevent another caller from getting through. I was told that I'm mean and the caller hung up. What if that caller sends in a review of me? I'll get a bad client review for doing my job correctly.

There are dozens of things that callers get mad at us for that we can't control, and the worst part is that we're not allowed to step outside protocol to explain that a certain automated system won't connect to a live person, or that we can't call certain modalities and so on. If we were allowed to explain these things to callers properly, they would have an easier time understanding what was going on [especially callers whose english is at the level that say, my spanish is...] and then they wouldn't abuse us, which in turn wouldn't inspire some relay operators to bash the callers.

At my company we are not able to cut and paste any transcript, nor are we capable of emailing anything from a call, period. It sounds like MCI is the main culprit here, and its interesting too that word on the street is that those operators also hate the company because they aren't paid enough- I have a feeling that the higher the wages and respect towards operators from management, the better the service to the deaf community, which may be a motive for people to choose relay based on how fair each company's labor policy is.

While this obviously won't erase the entire event from your mind, you might breathe at least a small sigh of relief to know that where I work, if someone mocks a caller for their English skills etc, there are always a dozen people ready to stand up and say, 'hey, how would you feel making phone calls in your second language, if you even have one.' I simply have no time for that bullshit, especially because we exist to serve a community that already faces obstacles in communication, and we see that everyday when we explain relay to rude people at the other end of the line.

In the meantime I agree that labelling us all as bad people won't solve the problem, we all need to judge our interactions on a compassionate case by case basis. We all need to remember that when we're frustrated, there might be something on the other end of the line that is beyond the callers/operators control. Maybe the caller is trying to type while a child tugs at them, maybe the caller is a senior who isn't used to a keypad. Maybe the operator is having technical difficulty or they simply can't find a live person because its lunchtime or outside business hours etc.

Also, remember the operator numbers too, so that you can evaluate us. If we're good, please send us the feedback, it makes the job far more rewarding and encouraging. And if you need to complain, by all means do but make sure your problem is with a bad operator and not with a technical problem [like the software dropping the call so it looks like we've hung up] or a miscommunication [like getting angry at the operator for not being able to reach a live person or prevent a rude business owner from hanging up. In conclusion, you have my total solidarity and I'm glad I saw your post so I can warn my coworkers and supervisors to keep a lookout. Smile. SK

There is nothing to warn anyone about. They should already know this.

:type: I'm an OJT (on the job trainer) I train CA's...and I make sure my trainees leave informed. If they're not capable of understanding or I feel they may be a problem (and you can generally tell to begin with), they never reach the floor.
 
Now, what that form you found bashing the deaf, that is wrong. But it is also wrong to bash the relay oper. too. They are giving the deaf a service so the deaf can communinate with the hearing world. They need to be showing the respect that someone that wants to help them.

That also goes for the other end too. But as Relayoperator stated, they had times where they go home crieing, cause they had problems with the system and the deaf person just starts thinking that the relay is just giving them a hard time. If there is a problem with the software, just need to be patient with it. Also, going to their boss to tell lies is a little over board and really don't solve anything. Only thing that does, if a deaf pisses off too many relay oper. then they won't want to talk their calls. I have a friend that is also a VRS operator and her screen pops up and shows the name of who wants the call. She can click on passing it over to another operator or pick it. She told me she sends the ones she knows and just looking for trouble to the next operator. She only does that cause she don't want a deaf person just to give her a hard time for her doing her job and everything.

Both sides need to respect each other, and if the deaf is calling a business, that is a whole new can of worms right there. I have had to call up businesses to chew out that person for hanging up on my wife.
 
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