Women In Her 20s Ends Her Life By Euthanasia In Holland Due To Mental Suffering

[Audiofuzzy]

I support people doing what they want with their lives

but that's exactly what they want to do, they all want to die, except they want to die with dignity and without pain.
the "cabal" may or may not grant their wish, still they want to die.
the lucky ones will be assisted, the unlucky will either do it themselves or continue to suffer.
is all there is to do with it.


Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Well..in socialized medicine choices are conditioned very differently then free choice.

again it comes down to choices..or the smoke screen of them

Why does she need the docs to even approve it then?

It was her choice to ask them. As the law dictated
It was the docs choice to ok it or not
they held the power not her

Thats a big big difference in my eyes

So we have a women deemed never to be cured of her mental issues.
yet making a ratiinal choice via critical thinking and reasoning

Ok

In ask how much free choice does a women in those shoes rally make when she is faced with the power structure of white coated docs who obviously have an agenda. Which prob is the gov who pays them

Food for thought

You are missing the point here.
really, it is not so much for the woman their approval - it's for the doctors the need to establish clear and absolute ethical and medical guidelines for assisted suicide, and which also protects them against possible malpractice and being taken to court.
otherwise, she is free to off herself anytime. no doctor will hover over her 24/7 yelling "no, you are forbidden!" - mind you.
Now, why are the assisted suicide guidelines needed? to prevent those who may in the moment of passing weakness make a tragic, irreversible mistake.
and now I ask you Hoichi - if not the bureaucrats and the cabal -then WHO is supposed for those who are at their lowest point in their life - decide lives and who dies? you? me? Jezi? DNMommy? ??? who???

Fuzzy

 

[Foxrac]

I wish that assisted suicide is legal and option in Alabama so I don't want to suffer anymore.

 

[Reba]

I wish that assisted suicide is legal and option in Alabama so I don't want to suffer anymore.

Suicide is not the solution to suffering. Don't give up.

 

[hoichi]

Is it acceptable to leave the people who do want to die only painful, long, or messy options that they and their loved ones have to endure?

no
but why make it a .gov ministry of happy transitions or what ever they call it either?

 

[hoichi]

Well, it's clear to me you are totally uneducated on the subject.

pls do explain..
(lights fat joint, thinking of padded rooms and jack the ripper.....)

Do you think it's right to even discuss the subject you know nothing about ,

you do all the time so why not?

Don't you think that by criticizing or judging someone or something you should first at least familiarize yourself
with the subject you so carelessly talk about now?

which person have i critized? which person have i judged? what subject exactly?

Internet is free to anyone, just click in the little window and search search search until the cows come home.?

your very clever....

For starters, just because it is called "mental illness" does not mean one is not in possession in one's full faculties ever.
Depression, bipolar, OCD are all considered mental illness (commonly called mental disorders) , would you say it is in the exact same category as schizoaffective disorders where the patient may hallucinate and believe he, say, has an ability to fly or talks to non existent entities? (like John Nash in Beautifil Mind)
Not everyone with even serious mental illness is incapable of doing a rational decision, and obviously the doctors had had to declare her sane and capable, for starters..?

yes.
doctors who work for the state, declared this girl sane, to off herself..

yes.
indeed

Now, just because the woman showed previous signs of improvement doesn't mean the nature of her disorder had an promising outcome on the whole. even in the cancer cases there are periods of promising improvement only to turn into devastating end mere months later. so what she "showed improvement"?
on the whole she was suffering from incurable, debilitating, traumatic, downhill trauma, and that's what killed her - end of story.


Fuzzy

actually the story continues..

what incurable..disorder exactly was she suffering from? is "downhill trauma" the actual name?

before you bite, grow some teeth..

 

[hoichi]

I wish that assisted suicide is legal and option in Alabama so I don't want to suffer anymore.

cmon man.
your entire life is ahead of you.
dont let anyone tell you different.

 

[Jezie]

no
but why make it a .gov ministry of happy transitions or what ever they call it either?

The governments at least to some extent are accountable to the people of its nation in ways a private company would not be. Through government controls and doctor administration it keeps it from being too much of an assassination house. At least with this, the people can ask for the service... although some governments are moving to include it to deal with aging and infirm citizens...
I do see an issue with the government being in hand with such an operation...

 

[hoichi]

but that's exactly what they want to do, they all want to die, except they want to die with dignity and without pain.
the "cabal" may or may not grant their wish, still they want to die.
the lucky ones will be assisted, the unlucky will either do it themselves or continue to suffer.
is all there is to do with it.


Fuzzy

no kiddin i didnt think of that...

now

my plm is with the cabal. and who the hell do they think they are to grant that wish or not? assessed or not?
peoples bodies are their own.
not the .buggerments
this is where you and i seem to disagree

we prob disagree on the nature of socially conditioned choice too. but thats another post

 

[hoichi]

You are missing the point here.

you claim such. you have not demonstrated it. keep trying,

really, it is not so much for the woman their approval - it's for the doctors the need to establish clear and absolute ethical and medical guidelines for assisted suicide, and which also protects them against possible malpractice and being taken to court. .

absolute ehtical guidlines? is that absolute as aboslute as the goal post that changed? i undersstand the reasoning full well. i disagree a gov entitiy is needed. given how .govs have acted and treated those deemed incurable in the past. of whatever so called illness real or imagined. i dont support another den of fools to make those choices.

otherwise, she is free to off herself anytime. no doctor will hover over her 24/7 yelling "no, you are forbidden!" - mind you..

shes already long done..but a good tip for others. indeed

Now, why are the assisted suicide guidelines needed? to prevent those who may in the moment of passing weakness make a tragic, irreversible mistake.

is that what you belive?

and now I ask you Hoichi - if not the bureaucrats and the cabal -then WHO is supposed for those who are at their lowest point in their life - decide lives and who dies? you? me? Jezi? DNMommy? ??? who???

Fuzzy

those people themselves

its called freedom

 

[hoichi]

The governments at least to some extent are accountable to the people of its nation in ways a private company would not be. Through government controls and doctor administration it keeps it from being too much of an assassination house. At least with this, the people can ask for the service... although some governments are moving to include it to deal with aging and infirm citizens...
I do see an issue with the government being in hand with such an operation...

private bussiness are also accountible. peope cana lso obviously ask and seek out that service.

private bussiness can and do regulate themselves. almost always better then any buggermint

i in no way shape or form believe for a second gov controls, will keep it from bieng an assinitation house. given the last centruy of what we know gov. can and do DO. i wont buy that rubbish for a second.

my opinion anyway.

 

[Jezie]

private bussiness are also accountible. peope cana lso obviously ask and seek out that service.

private bussiness can and do regulate themselves. almost always better then any buggermint

i in no way shape or form believe for a second gov controls, will keep it from bieng an assinitation house. given the last centruy of what we know gov. can and do DO. i wont buy that rubbish for a second.

my opinion anyway.

Interesting....

 

[Audiofuzzy]

you do all the time so why not?

LOL
Nope,
contrary to you, I do know what I am talking about.
and if any subject is unfamiliar to me, I at least take time to do a due research online before I speak.

which person have i critized? which person have i judged? what subject exactly?

the doctors, the government.

yes.
doctors who work for the state, declared this girl sane, to off herself..

unlike you or me, they were - are - qualified to do that. if, in your opinion they are not suitable, who is?
because certainly not the person whose very sanity is being questioned is qualified to do exactly that.

actually the story continues..

???????

what incurable..disorder exactly was she suffering from? is "downhill trauma" the actual name?

the disorders, the history were clearly stated in the article. if you read it, and you understood, you should know.
if you don't know, that makes me suspect you simply don't understand what you read.

Fuzzy

 

[hoichi]

LOL
Nope,
contrary to you, I do know what I am talking about.
and if any subject is unfamiliar to me, I at least take time to do a due research online before I speak

Fuzzy

you certainly claim to know all sorts of things.
i grant that

and ive asked you a number of questions on here to furthur the discussion, to have your knowlege help it, to actually back up your ststements.

to which
you have answered none.

so
pardon me, if your claims in my eyes are well....at best ego stroking at worst your full of it.


now
if you do have anything at all to back your claims to your imense knowlege..or even low knowlege, hell ill accept no knowlege..
fire away...fire away

if not
cool

 

[Audiofuzzy]

you claim such. you have not demonstrated it. keep trying,

with all due respect, do excuse me if I go "pfffft" in my answer

absolute ehtical guidlines? is that absolute as aboslute as the goal post that changed?

no, of course is not. it's at the moment absolute. at some point, it could be subject to change. but may I point out nothing in life
is "absolute" forever. not only in medicine,
but in every living instance. lots of things changed since humans exist.

i undersstand the reasoning full well. i disagree a gov entitiy is needed. given how .govs have acted and treated those deemed incurable in the past. of whatever so called illness real or imagined. i dont support another den of fools to make those choices.

well, but what you just wrote shows me the exact opposite.
it shows me you either barely grasp the problem, or don't care in your hate for authority. you do not present nor offer any other reasonable alternative solution to the problem, instead what you do - you propose to dump the responsibility on the very those
who don't want to deal with it in the first place.
Sorry, but somebody has to take responsibility for those sick people who do not want to deal with it themselves,
or are incapable to deal with it themselves.
instead what are you proposing is like "your car is broken? don't take it to the mechanic - he or she is a 'cabal'
who will only enslave you, cheat you, rip you of your money. fix it yourself!
The doctors and government in the past made mistakes, true. so did you. so did everybody. people learn from mistakes, sadly.
but also people fix mistakes, too.

shes already long done..but a good tip for others. indeed

you have better "tip" for those who want to die yet are afraid of dying in pain or worse, end up not dying but living as vegetable for the next 20, 30 years - I am all ears..

is that what you belive?

I believe if I am sick, particularly mentally, I am better of listening to a doctor than you.

those people themselves

so, in your opinion there is no difference between hallucinating bipolar, hallucinating schizophrenic, manic depressive, PTSD, postnatal depression, paranoic - they are all capable of making decision for themselves?
A 17 y.o depressed suicidal teen is as capable as 22y o systematically traumatically sex. abused and as 40 y.o. paranoic schizophrenic?
Interesting view.

its called freedom

Yeeeep.....
although I thought these were sick people and sick people sometimes decide to do things they really don't want to do,
but who am I to say ...

Fuzzy

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I once was covering for another health aide and when I got to the client's house I asked what she needed done , grocery or laundry etc the woman said
"Can you kill me ?" and she had a table filled with pills. I called the nurse and reported this and she reported it to the pysch nurse . If the woman did kill herself
after I left I would be questioned if she said anything or acted depress and if so why didn't I report it. I feel the woman had the right to kill herself but I also knew it was my job to report it. I also feel if she really wanted to dies she wouldn't had said anything to me b/c she had to known I would had reported this. I had to report about 3 clients that said they wanted to kill themselves , they were old and sick and ,lonely . This is so tragic b/c I can understand a person not wanting to live any longer
and I blame some Dr. for trying to keep some people alive when they no longer want to be alive.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

no kiddin i didnt think of that...

now

my plm is with the cabal. and who the hell do they think they are to grant that wish or not? assessed or not?
peoples bodies are their own.
not the .buggerments
this is where you and i seem to disagree

we prob disagree on the nature of socially conditioned choice too. but thats another post

who the hell are you to think they aren't?
explain.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I had to report about 3 clients that said they wanted to kill themselves , they were old and sick and ,lonely . This is so tragic b/c I can understand a person not wanting to live any longer
and I blame some Dr. for trying to keep some people alive when they no longer want to be alive.

But you see, that is not the reason to grant the wish of euthanasia.
you see, loneliness is fixable, if only people took it seriously and did something so those people stopped being lonely in the first place.
if they got some company they would start feel better on the whole. old age wouldn't bother them so much, they would stop feeling so sick once their overall emotional state improved.
the sad fact is, those lonely seniors are being left alone.
If we were to grant every heartbreaking wish for euthanasia - people would be dying by millions. it can't be like that.

However, IMO what really is despicable, is keeping dying people on life support system for years or keep reanimating very sick,
dying people over and over. most of their organs had failed, they beg to be put out of their misery,
but because the family insist "to do everything to save them" - they continue to live in terrible pain,
with an inevitable outcome sooner or later - death.

Please, please read this amazing memoir https://www.amazon.ca/Nurses-Story-Tilda-Shalof/dp/0771080875
that book changed my outlook on CPR and "save at all cost".

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

you certainly claim to know all sorts of things.
i grant that

and ive asked you a number of questions on here to furthur the discussion, to have your knowlege help it, to actually back up your ststements. to which you have answered none.

And I have addressed all your pertaining to the subject comments point by point.
if you have a question - ask precisely instead of repeating vague accusations.

so
pardon me, if your claims in my eyes are well....at best ego stroking at worst your full of it.

first of all, verbalize with sense what "claims" are you taking about. ask clearly, please. I can't read your mind.

now
if you do have anything at all to back your claims to your imense knowlege..or even low knowlege, hell ill accept no knowlege..
fire away...fire away

as above.

if not
cool

Fuzzy

 

[Jezie]

But you see, that is not the reason to grant the wish of euthanasia.
you see, loneliness is fixable, if only people took it seriously and did something so those people stopped being lonely in the first place.
if they got some company they would start feel better on the whole. old age wouldn't bother them so much, they would stop feeling so sick once their overall emotional state improved.
the sad fact is, those lonely seniors are being left alone.
If we were to grant every heartbreaking wish for euthanasia - people would be dying by millions. it can't be like that.

However, IMO what really is despicable, is keeping dying people on life support system for years or keep reanimating very sick,
dying people over and over. most of their organs had failed, they beg to be put out of their misery,
but because the family insist "to do everything to save them" - they continue to live in terrible pain,
with an inevitable outcome sooner or later - death.

Please, please read this amazing memoir https://www.amazon.ca/Nurses-Story-Tilda-Shalof/dp/0771080875
that book changed my outlook on CPR and "save at all cost".

Fuzzy

Why not? Is it not their life and choice to determine when they are done living? Or is it yours? I understand having pity for people who want to die, but to say that they cannot or should not because it offends society is saying that society knows better than the individual what will make then happy. Sometimes, death is the answer for them and they are happy with it... sometime they realize at the last second that it is not... regardless people should have the ability and control over their own life and death... not society, not the government, and not their family...