Women In Her 20s Ends Her Life By Euthanasia In Holland Due To Mental Suffering

[hoichi]

Interesting

She was sexually abused while a child...snd couldn't live with the pain. So holland allowed her to go by euthanasia..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tress-conditions-uncurable.html#ixzz48IpJ93dA

 

[Jezie]

Curious are you posting this because you support it or find it horrendous?

 

[hoichi]

Its ominous that a cabal of doctors csme to the conclusion there was no hope for recovery for her from mental illness. In her 20s...

If we use the above measure for most mental illness.
allot of people would b getting suicided.
its a hell of allot cheaper and a hell of allot easier

She was showing sign of improvement.
yet she was offed anyway

One plm i see is
if the person is truly so mentally sick...to never be cured or treated. How csn that person make a rational choice to off themselves

if they csn think rationally and make reasoned decisions then doesn't that suggest they can be at the last treated?

 

[hoichi]

Curious are you posting this because you support it or find it horrendous?

For discussion...

As for me
i find it hideous that the gov and a cabal of white coated docs control who goes...who even more ominous who gets to stay

Thats very very creepy

I support people doing what they want with their lives

Not beurocrscy of gov suicide...

No WAY

 

[Jezie]

For discussion...

As for me
i find it hideous that the gov and a cabal of white coated docs control who goes...who even more ominous who gets to stay

Thats very very creepy

I support people doing what they want with their lives

Not beurocrscy of gov suicide...

No WAY

While I know some nations do have doctors that determine aND have the job of deciding when someone is no longer fit to be part of the citizentry... this case appears as if it was her choice to end her life.

 

[hoichi]

While I know some nations do have doctors that determine aND have the job of deciding when someone is no longer fit to be part of the citizentry... this case appears as if it was her choice to end her life.

Well..in socialized medicine choices are conditioned very differently then free choice.

again it comes down to choices..or the smoke screen of them

Why does she need the docs to even approve it then?

It was her choice to ask them. As the law dictated
It was the docs choice to ok it or not
they held the power not her

Thats a big big difference in my eyes

So we have a women deemed never to be cured of her mental issues.
yet making a ratiinal choice via critical thinking and reasoning

Ok

In ask how much free choice does a women in those shoes rally make when she is faced with the power structure of white coated docs who obviously have an agenda. Which prob is the gov who pays them

Food for thought

 

[Jezie]

Well..in socialized medicine choices are conditioned very differently then free choice.

again it comes down to choices..or the smoke screen of them

Why does she need the docs to even approve it then?

It was her choice to ask them. As the law dictated
It was the docs choice to ok it or not
they held the power not her

Thats a big big difference in my eyes

So we have a women deemed never to be cured of her mental issues.
yet making a ratiinal choice via critical thinking and reasoning

Ok

In ask how much free choice does a Mon in those shoes rally make when she is faced with thr power structure of white coated docs who obviously have an agenda. Whuch prob is the gov who pays them

Food for thought

So you issue is not that she chose to die, but rather in situations like this the doctors could manipulate one to have no option but to request to die when they really do not?

Doctors do have their own adgenda, I can agree with that, but if someone wants to legally die who else should be in place to assist with the person's death?
If you sell it over the counter you open and offer a new way for other to commit murder... any way you look at it, society has to feel that they are helping people otherwise they will see it as government murder. Which even with this in place it appears some in Holland still holler about the victims being given a death sentence now...

How do you see this "service" being provided and not being connected to some government agency? Even if it is an off branch the government will want to keep close ties to make sure it does not get out of hand.

 

[hoichi]

So you issue is not that she chose to die, but rather in situations like this the doctors could manipulate one to have no option but to request to die when they really do not?

Doctors do have their own adgenda, I can agree with that, but if someone wants to legally die who else should be in place to assist with the person's death?
If you sell it over the counter you open and offer a new way for other to commit murder... any way you look at it, society has to feel that they are helping people otherwise they will see it as government murder. Which even with this in place it appears some in Holland still holler about the victims being given a death sentence now...

How do you see this "service" being provided and not being connected to some government agency? Even if it is an off branch the government will want to keep close ties to make sure it does not get out of hand.

I support what people wish to do with their own bodies and lives
period

That does NOT in anyway mean i support gov beurocracy of suicide

No way
Given time that beurocracy lik all will b a monster..a rather bloody one too

I can see a person with a terminal disease like cancer needing assistance. the end is they cant move so on ect
But this girl
what assistance did she need?

Go off yourself. If thats what u want.

people have been doing that long before any gov body to assist you...
sell what over the the counter?




Its not that hard...
you dont need the gov to ok it. it very twisted...really so the gov oks who gets to die and oks who gwts to b born...mmmmm....Or some weird last ritual in a room with docs to make sure they dont get sued. And pat themselves on a r back..
i dunno

The oath of a doctor is what?
To do no harm

Suicide by any definition is harming..

So on
so forth


I remember when the movement started snd how they all said very clesrly it was just for terminal diseases...so on
They moved the goal posts on o include mental illness..
and im sure they will move them again

 

[Reba]

This is bad news.

* Victims of abuse should kill themselves.
* Doctors no longer follow "first, do no harm."
* She was too depressed to live but it said that she was not under major depression when she made her decision to die.
* Yes, she suffered for 20 years but she had a possible 60 years ahead of her that could have changed for the good.
* Maybe she had no hope because doctors kept telling her that she was "hopeless."
* The solution to PTSD is suicide (too many of our military veterans already follow this belief).
* One less patient that national medical "care" doesn't have to support.

 

[Reba]

. . .

I remember when the movement started snd how they all said very clesrly it was just for terminal diseases...so on
They moved the goal posts on o include mental illness..
and im sure they will move them again

Yep.

 

[Jezie]

I support what people wish to do with their own bodies and lives
period

That does NOT in anyway mean i support gov beurocracy of suicide

No way
Given time that beurocracy lik all will b a monster..a rather bloody one too

I can see a person with an inasmuch as cancer needing assistance. A tv he end is hey c snt move so on
But this girl
what assistance did she need?

Go off yourself.
people have been doing that long before any gov body to assist you...
sell what over three the bcounter?




Its not that hard...
you dont need the gov to ok it. I fj d it veey twisted...really Or some weird last ritual in a room with docs to make sure they dont get sued
So on
so forth


I remember when the movement started snd how they all said very clesrly it was just for terminal diseases...so on
They moved the goal posts on o include mental illness..
and im sure they will move them again

Of that there can be little doubt, but the reason's for people wanting to die also vary. Did the goal post move because it is what the government wanted or society? One cannot forget that this service is something people in society have asked for. The government is not knocking get on doors pulling people from their bed and offing them. And while one can lead to the other, does that mean individuals should not have the option? There are ways to keep this in check and still allow people the option. But the slope has already been passed when doctors are given the job to determine if a person has reached their expiration date....
Edit: I missed the part about doctors and doing no harm...
There is also harm in forcing someone to live that does not, for whatever reason, want to. Maybe they do not have the sack to off themselves or have religious reasons that a doc is an acceptable work around.... harm can be defined not just by the giver of an action but the receiver as well...

 

[hoichi]

Of that there can be little doubt, but the reason's for people wanting to die also vary. Did the goal post move because it is what the government wanted or society? One cannot forget that this service is something people in society have asked for. The government is not knocking get on doors pulling people from their bed and offing them. And while one can lead to the other, does that mean individuals should not have the option? There are ways to keep this in check and still allow people the option. But the slope has already been passed when doctors are given the job to determine if a person has reached their expiration date....
Edit: I missed the part about doctors and doing no harm...
There is also harm in forcing someone to live that does not, for whatever reason, want to. Maybe they do not have the sack to off themselves or have religious reasons that a doc is an acceptable work around.... harm can be defined not just by the giver of an action but the receiver as well...

I dont care ir peoplw want to off themselves over break ups or csncer or what ever
Its their choice
the plm isn't in people offing themselves its in the gov making the terms

And holding the keys
period

Given how fast thd goal post have changed i doubt society had anything much at all to do with it

What service?
One needs to ask does the gov need to b involved in the suicide service?
Make it private then and be don With the pretense
of it all

Right the gov isn't knocking o doors and pulling teeth or forcing people
right
Indeed not yet..
look if u trust them cool
but im a different sort..

Frankly i dont think doctors should be in the suicide business
have another job in society for that then

Oaths matter

They should anyway...
of course these days thdy dont...
but
ah well

 

[Jezie]

Suicide by many is a sin, somehow an assisted suicide works around this for them. Others for whatever reason want to die yet cannot do it theirself. This would he seen as a service to them.

No I do not trust doctors not to work for their own objectives. Yet, to ensure that the death has as few complications as possible someone with a doctor's training is the most qualified to help people who want to die.

Yes an oath should always matter, once one gives their word it should be their bond, but then maybe I am in the wrong time but it goes back to defining harm. Is it harmful to help someone die, who wants to die, in a peaceful as possible way?
Whose harm is the oath for?

I dont care ir peoplw want to off themselves over break ups or csncer or what ever
Its their choice
the plm isn't in people offing themselves its in the gov making the terms

And holding the keys
period

Given how fast thd goal post have changed i doubt society had anything much at all to do with it

What service?
One needs to ask does the gov need to b involved in the suicide service?
Make it private then and be don With the pretense
of it all

Right the gov isn't knocking o doors and pulling teeth or forcing people
right
Indeed not yet..
look if u trust them cool
but im a different sort..

Frankly i dont think doctors should be in the suicide business
have another job in society for that then

Oaths matter

They should anyway...
of course these days thdy dont...
but
ah well

 

[hoichi]

Suicide by many is a sin, somehow an assisted suicide works around this for them. Others for whatever reason want to die yet cannot do it theirself. This would he seen as a service to them.

No I do not trust doctors not to work for their own objectives. Yet, to ensure that the death has as few complications as possible someone with a doctor's training is the most qualified to help people who want to die.

Yes an oath should always matter, once one gives their word it should be their bond, but then maybe I am in the wrong time but it goes back to defining harm. Is it harmful to help someone die, who wants to die, in a peaceful as possible way?
Whose harm is the oath for?

Well i doubt very much for those who actually hold suicide to b a sin. Having another help with the deed somehow makes it not one

if only that could work with any sin

like say sex before marriage
if it was a three some its somehow not a sin...

how about theft?

Murder even?

So on

Again to be clear.
i support people to do what they want With their own bodies..but if you cant bring yourself to have sex with another without a thid party present to hold your hand. Then maybe your not ready for sex

if you cant knock yourself off without another to do it for u. The your prob in my opinion anyway not entirely convinced of your choice. And should reconsider

I really dont see why docs are needed.

have another job description for those who will thrive in offing people..if they pay..

As for harm
yes
we can dance all year around how to define the harm chestnut.or how many suicided souls dance on a pin head for all that matters.

the oath is an old one so it makes sense in my eyes anyway to keep it strict to what it stated
And what was meant by it
or do away with it..

 

[rockin'robin]

Feel people have the Right to Die...a terminal illness is one right...Sexual abuse?...good question. I know of many women who were abused as a child (me included). And oft times wanted to end it all...but struggled on and prevailed with their own lives. Not gonna let that abuser win!...Made his Life as miserable as they can,,,and he died a horrible death, but not by my own hand...Karma was a Bitch (in my case)...Then again, not all people are as strong and some circumstances they cannot handle.

 

[Jezie]

Well i doubt very much for those who actually hold suicide to b a sin. Having another help with the dead somehow makes it not one
if only that could work with any sin
like say sex before marriage
kf it was a three some its somehow not a sin...
how about theft?
Murder even?

So on

Again to b clear.
i support people to do what they want Will h their own bodies..but if you cant bring yourself to have sex with another without a thid party present to hold your hand. Then maybe your not ready for sex
if you cant knock yourself off without another to do it for u. The your prob in ky opinion anyway not entirely cinvinced of your choice. And should reconsider

I really dont see why docs are needed.
have another job description for those who will thrive in offing people..if they pay..

As for harm
yes
we can dance all year around how to define harm chestnut.or how many suicided souls dance o a pin head for all that matters.
the oath is an old one so it makes sense in my eyes anyway to keep it strict to what it stated
And what was meant by it
or do away with it..

Ah but there is a work around for all of those. ... repentance...
I do see your point, and do not mean to imply that you may not be in support of people doing with and whatever they want with their bodies.
Yes, there are other job descriptions that pay for death... however those are not legal. The government has its thumbs in everything a person does whether one sees it or not. It has strong lines on what, when, and how a person does almost anything.
If one wants to hold the full meaning and intent behind the hippocrates oath you actually get much closer to a outing doctors in the suicide business. Do no harm was not in the original oath... and it actuallyrics did state to not give deadly medicines even when asked.
Yet, I cannot argue that if one cannot do it by their own hand then maybe their convictions are not strong enough...

 

[hoichi]

Theres a work around for anything...
that doesn't have to do much with the thing at hand thiugh
right the gov has its hands in everything
since j support less gov
the idea of another gov body or beurocracy i find repulsive
even more so for the one who in no time will b dictating and nudging people to off themsekves ensemble and a bmp making i happen

Given how quick the goal posts have already changed..

 

[Jezie]

Theres a work around for anything...
that doesn't have to do much with the thing at hand thiugh
right the gov has its hands in everything
since j support less gov
the idea of another gov body or beurocracy i find repulsive
even more so for the one who in no time will b dictating and nudging people to off themsekves ensemble and a bmp making i happen

Given how quick the goal posts have already changed..

Is it acceptable to leave the people who do want to die only painful, long, or messy options that they and their loved ones have to endure?

 

[DeafNerdMommy]

In Oregon we can get assisted suicide if we have a valid reason and the end result is death. So like a women with a brain tumor had a week to live so she said her good byes and ended it. Also the elder around here can do the same if they are old enough

 

[Audiofuzzy]

She was showing sign of improvement.
yet she was offed anyway

One plm i see is
if the person is truly so mentally sick...to never be cured or treated. How csn that person make a rational choice to off themselves

if they csn think rationally and make reasoned decisions then doesn't that suggest they can be at the last treated?

Well, it's clear to me you are totally uneducated on the subject.
Do you think it's right to even discuss the subject you know nothing about , it's like me trying to discuss rocket science (lol)?
Don't you think that by criticizing or judging someone or something you should first at least familiarize yourself
with the subject you so carelessly talk about now?
Internet is free to anyone, just click in the little window and search search search until the cows come home.

For starters, just because it is called "mental illness" does not mean one is not in possession in one's full faculties ever.
Depression, bipolar, OCD are all considered mental illness (commonly called mental disorders) , would you say it is in the exact same category as schizoaffective disorders where the patient may hallucinate and believe he, say, has an ability to fly or talks to non existent entities? (like John Nash in Beautifil Mind)
Not everyone with even serious mental illness is incapable of doing a rational decision, and obviously the doctors had had to declare her sane and capable, for starters.
Now, just because the woman showed previous signs of improvement doesn't mean the nature of her disorder had an promising outcome on the whole. even in the cancer cases there are periods of promising improvement only to turn into devastating end mere months later. so what she "showed improvement"?
on the whole she was suffering from incurable, debilitating, traumatic, downhill trauma, and that's what killed her - end of story.


Fuzzy