Women in Christianity

[Reba]

hottieboi, once again, your postings reveal who you are - a distorted view of what it means to have a real life. It's not just religion per se - it's the whole attitude you show that is not healthy.

I hate religious fundamentalism with passion.

And you think that your attitude is healthy? When is "hate" healthy?

I even believe that religious fundamentalists should have no right to vote as they are extremely destructive to our country ideals...

But denying the right to vote to a select group of Americans is not "destructive to our country ideals"?

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Well, I will not discuss any further, there are so much challenging in life, I don't care how you look at, which I call it stereotypical about particular race, denominationals, male, females and etc. I don't care about the label of people, every labels has their own arguments. Fundamentalist is not destroying this country, its called accusations. Even tho what's going on around and so called opinionating on other persons lifes is absolutely destructives. Just like religious leaders views of Jesus. And about my family matters, my daughter and several friends will tell you what kind of family they are and very unique and unbearable, and even tho, thinking I'm in the lifetime channel movies. But beside the point, I have seen and meet different religion, as they shares their beliefs, is not mean I'm forbidden to share mine. When I share with the love of Christ, I get hateful response and then saying different issues. I know a lot of other religion beliefs and not 100 percent of it. But my faith stand and u can accuse and condemn of my standing faith of Christ whom I love so much and how much He has done costly for me, and not just for me, also for the world. There is nothing I see compare this one. Its afulfilling life and tho go thru dark times and made mistakes in my life along the way, grace is sufficience for me. Oh what Amazing Grace I have. I don't know what or how. Like friend of mine said she used to be in tis forum but giving her headache of this, which I agree. As I look at, you don't care about who I am, you are focusing label of me and put me in the category which I'm not like them. Don't even think or ask if I think I'm better than others, if I am better than others, then I don't need Christ. Why I have Christ, bec I'm totally unworthy. I rather have Christ than myself and other religions and denominations. That mean I don't go to church, I'm new in this town, am looking for the right one. No, all church even fundamentalist are not the same.

 

[Reba]

...Funny you complained. Did you know that athiests and agnostics have the lowest rate of divorce WHILE baptists and fundamentalists have the highest rate of divorce? A Christian fundamentalist survery group did a survey on groups with different religions and was shocked to find out that athiests have lowest rate of divorce while fundamentlaists have highest rate of divorce...

I'm curious about the statistics. Did it take into account the number of people who live together outside of marriage? That is, if more athiests were living together as a percentage of marriage-age adults than Christians were, then that group obviously wouldn't be counted in the marriage/divorce ratios. It could mean that more Christians than atheists tended to marry in the first place, so they would proportionately have more divorces, if that's the case. Just wondering, since I haven't seen the actual survey.

 

[Rose Immortal]

I have allways been amazed about the difference how Jesus treated women and how the christian church treated women.

Indeed, Jesus was no misogynist.

About Mary Magdalene, I think she must've been a smart lady and I imagine that she did serve Jesus' ministry very well. But as far as being His wife, I cannot see that. How could Jesus, knowing that He was to die, leave a widow? It's a scientifically-proven fact that a widow or widower has high odds of passing away from the grief. Knowing those odds, I do not believe for a second that Jesus would take a gamble like that with Mary Magdalene's life. To NOT have a romantic relationship with her shows a much GREATER love.

Rose,

I wanted to offer my support. I am sorry you had that unfortunate experience with the fellow you were considering dating. It is, per my feelings, my cultural context, and my understanding of the world, an outrightly inappropriate thing for any person to do when they imply an innate, bestowed masculine superiority over the feminine.

Unfortunately, this trend is rather pervasive in our culture. I'm reminded of a Shirley Chisholm quotation: "The emotional, sexual, and psychological stereotyping of females begins when the doctor says, 'It's a girl.'" Given this prevalence and other factors, I do not believe that feminine subjugation is necessarily a tenet of Christianity itself, but rather, that Christian faith has been manipulated to justify and propagate misogyny.

I applaud you when you strengthen your resolve and declare to us that this kind of outlook on women is something you will not accept. You have my backing!

And perhaps you might like this one tidbit. Those who insist on the subjugation of women have it half right. As the anonymous line goes, "Women belong in the house . . . and the Senate!"

Cheers from a friend!

LOL, nice quote!!!

You are very right about the stereotyping of females. I was even affected by one form when I was VERY little and toy ads only showed girls playing with dolls and kitchen sets and the like. I wanted all of the "adventure toys" like GI Joes and starships and stuff like that but felt like I should not ask because those were boys-only toys. You never saw girls playing with those sorts of toys.

It was only when I got older that I realized, and it made me very sad to become aware of it.

Very recently I saw a commercial where they were making toy Jeeps for kids to drive around, and while they had the obligatory pink, flowery Barbie one, at the end they showed the girl hopping into the brother's car and said something like, "...because sister likes to go on adventures, too!" I almost cried. Beautiful moment. It made me feel just a tad better about the environment my child should grow up in if I have one. Even a son would be positively influenced by that, instead of learning that girls are supposed to be stupid and not adventuresome.

The reason why I believe that God do NOT want
the Exact Equality between Men and Women:

Look why did God create Adam FIRST, and then Eve ?

If God want Equality, then He could have created
both Adam and Eve at the SAME Time as Equal.

There's a key part of the Genesis description that you're missing, when you compare with other "creation" descriptions from other religions of that time.

Other creation legends showed the man being made out of one set of materials--and the woman created out of a different, inferior set of materials...in other words, she was being shown to be less than human (as in, man). The Genesis description is VERY strikingly different from that in that the man and the woman are made of the same substance.

Also, I think the reason that Adam was created first was actually so that he could experience what it was like to NOT have a mate, to realize just how incomplete he was without Eve...to realize that not only did he need a companion, but that he would need to treat her with dignity as an equal partner because they would be dependent on each other for fulfillment in life. This is the lesson society then went and forgot after the sins disrupted the equilibrium that was supposed to be there.

And that gets to the curse when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. I see that not as God's vengeance but God's warning about the wrongs and injustices that were going to crop up. Adam started the blame game with Eve and then turned Eve's love against her to control and manipulate her, is what I suspect happened and I actually think God was giving Eve a warning of what was coming.

You know why I think there was this kind of domestic problem (maybe even violence)? Check out Cain's behavior...I've GOT to think he learned that violent example from somewhere!

That's YOUR contribute. I just stated my belief as I see it fit. I've seen soo many women beatin' up on husbands/bfs/spouses/lovers. Long ago, it was men beatin' up on women and, now it is women beatin' up on men. Women gettin' bossy nowdays. Women want to get even/equal with men. I don't think God would like to see that. God can see how it affect His Church.

NEITHER should be beating up on the other. That's what I meant with my point about making the right gains the wrong way--I believe women should be equal to men but I do not believe they should take revenge or oppress in return. Disturbing the equality of the sexes is equally wrong regardless of whether the man or the woman does it.

 

[MorriganTait]

Correction, there is a lot more than 16,000,000 baptist.

Go find me the stats to back that up.

 

[Reba]

Once again, you don't know what you're saying. The statistics reveal a simple fact: athiests/agnostics have the lowest rate of divorce of all religious groups, including Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, and Jews. Athiests/Agnostics divorce rate is only 21% while Christian fundies are at 27%. Even more alarming is the more conservative a state is, the higher the divorce rate is.

"Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Statistics also reveal that the more liberal a Christian is, the less likely s/he will divorce.

Thank you for including the link so that I could read the whole survey.

Divorce is a terrible thing.

In my church congregation about 10 percent of the married people have been touched by divorce. It is a tragedy.

And you wonder why you're divorced? No one likes looney fundies. Often, it is people like you that destroy families, not create families. No one deserves to put up with loonies that are obsessed with God and put God above them.

Of course, you are a sweetheart and not the least bit judgmental or mean spirited or name calling.

 

[MorriganTait]

I didn't say largest religion, I said largest denomination (protestants), there are arguments about protestants, but I say spearate from the catholic, catholic is larger than protestant, but as in the categories is a largest denominations, not religion

Catholicism IS a Denomination - it is the largest denomination of all, the largest denomination of Christians, and the largest denomination of Christians in the US. Baptists are not even the largest Protestant Christian denomination - Anglicans are. I am not saying there aren't a sizeable number of Baptists - there are - with their largest recognized body having aprox 16 million members. There are over 1 billion Catholics and 1 billion Suni Muslims. That's way way way way more than than the number of Baptists, by 984 million. Is it kind of dawning on you now?

Well, baptist is the largest denomination of all

 

[hottiedeafboi]

MT, its been I say 5 or 6 yrs ago, as a stat its much larger than that. Even tho, its useless to argue further and to me, its not even big deal and that not giving lasting and important issue of this. Numbers of people isn't mean anything and not even important and most of all, not even God. None religions or denomination will lead anyone eternal hope, important part and cover the whole message, is God gave us grace thru Jesus Christ, nothing what we have done, but Christ Himself. Many has different stat of all religions and denominations. To me its not worth to constant bickering.

 

[netrox]

And you think that your attitude is healthy? When is "hate" healthy?

So, I have to love it?

But denying the right to vote to a select group of Americans is not "destructive to our country ideals"?

Why should you allow groups that are bent on destroying your freedom? Liberty is far more important than democracy. Our currency says, "Liberty", not democracy. Our Pledge says Liberty, not democracy. Our Statute says Liberty, not democracy.

Let's see, look at Amish people - they're doing what they believe is right for them. I fully support their right to live whatever they WANT to live but would you want them to tell you HOW to live your life? Fortunately, most of them don't vote.

Yet you fundies have the nerve to whine and complain and try everything to stop the progress - evolution in education, women rights, gay rights, religious rights, etc. You are the ones that voted against gay marriages, you're the ones that voted to restrict women's right to have abortion, you're the ones that voted to ban books simply because they're "offensive." It goes on and on. You TRY to make all Christian laws a federal issue.

You just simply don't understand the meaning of "liberty."

 

[MorriganTait]

I'm curious; do you have the figures for independent Baptists? I would like to know how many of us there are. :P

The 2005 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches reported the following figures, based primarily on 2003 denominational reporting data:
1. Roman Catholic Church: 67.2 million.
2. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.4 million.
3. United Methodist Church: 8.2 million.
4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: 5.5 million.
5. Church of God in Christ: 5.4 million.
6. National Baptist Convention USA: 5 million.
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America: 4.9 million.
8. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million.
9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 3.2 million.
10. Assemblies of God: 2.7 million.



Largest denominational families in U.S., 1990
(self-identification, NSRI)
Religious Denomination Estimated Adult Pop. Estimated % of Adult Pop.
Catholic 46,004,000 26.2%
Baptist 33,964,000 19.4%
Methodist 14,116,000 8.0%
Lutheran 9,110,000 5.2%
Presbyterian 4,985,000 2.8%
Jewish 3,137,000 1.8%
Pentecostal 3,116,000 1.8%
Episcopalian 3,042,000 1.7%
Latter-day Saints 2,487,000 1.4%
Churches of Christ 1,608,000 1.0%
Jehovah's Witnesses 1,381,000 0.8%

 

[netrox]

Of course, you are a sweetheart and not the least bit judgmental or mean spirited or name calling.

I don't want to be a sweetheart; I am being frank. Don't get this wrong; I am NOT opposed to your way of life. You can live as an Amish for all I care. What I can tell you that you people have put their stupid religious crap down my throat for so many years, demonizing me and telling me that my way of living is wrong and sinful but never mind that they're the ones that sin much worse than I do. You people have been trying to make laws that agree with your religious beliefs. That is patentedly offensive and an assault to the concept of liberty.

 

[MorriganTait]

MT, its been I say 5 or 6 yrs ago, as a stat its much larger than that.

Not anywhere I can find. In fact, the only notable update I could find said...
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.: The 1999 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches reports a membership of 8,200,000, from the year 1992 (figures for most other churches are recent - from 1996 to 1998). Many books have published membership totals for the National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. which indicate a membership of 8.5 million, which would make it one of the largest religious bodies in the country. However, during the 1999 trial of now-jailed church convention president Henry J. Lyons, prosecutors revealed that these figures were fabricated and the convention actually has closer to one million members, many of whom left during the Lyons fraud trial. Rev. H.L. Harvey, the convention's statistician, admitted that the figure of eight million was simply an estimate. It is important to note that Lyons took sole responsibility for fraud charges. Lyons' misuse of church funds and subsequent fraud conviction are not a reflection of the leaders and members of the National Baptist Convention, U.S.A. as a whole.

Even tho, its useless to argue further and to me, its not even big deal and that not giving lasting and important issue of this. Numbers of people isn't mean anything and not even important

Of course, now that I found the stats for you that prove what you said was false, it's not important and you don't want to argue...funny how that worked out, huh?

You can't back-up anything you have claimed about the numbers of Baptists. When you can back it up, I am all ears.

 

[Y]

Divorce is a terrible thing.

In my church congregation about 10 percent of the married people have been touched by divorce. It is a tragedy.



Of course, you are a sweetheart and not the least bit judgmental or mean spirited or name calling.

Reba, you're very good at this sarcasm such a diplomatic way

I agree that Divorce is a terrible thing !!

When my parents got a Divorce about five years ago,
they did NOT realize how much it had an effect
on me.

At the other day ago, I was cleaning up my desk drawer and
I felt so sad because I somehow found a beautiful picture
of them smiling together where you can see
my Dad put his arm around my mom. Probably the
LAST picture of them together.
I happen to have a few copies so the other day ago
I mailed a copy to each of them telling them that
I do forgive them with lots of love, but I still wish
they just forgive each other and grow old together.

I think that they might NOT realize how much
this bothered me for years. I felt as if I'm badly damaged
and destroyed by their Divorce. I still believe that
their Divorce was NOT even necessary at all.
What a waste ! They missed a great opportunity
to grow old together.

Geez, Maybe I should NOT mail that
photocopy to each of them at all.

 

[Reba]

...Why should you allow groups that are bent on destroying your freedom? Liberty is far more important than democracy. Our currency says, "Liberty", not democracy. Our Pledge says Liberty, not democracy. Our Statute says Liberty, not democracy.

What liberty is there for people who are not allowed to vote on the basis of religion? Do you not believe in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

Yet you fundies have the nerve to whine and complain and try everything to stop the progress - evolution in education, women rights, gay rights, religious rights, etc. You are the ones that voted against gay marriages, you're the ones that voted to restrict women's right to have abortion, you're the ones that voted to ban books simply because they're "offensive."

Progress???
BTW, banning books has never been on any ballots in any elections that I have participated in, and I haven't missed any elections since 1972.

You just simply don't understand the meaning of "liberty."

Not your definition. Apparently "liberty" to you means whatever netrox wants to do is OK, but no rights for anyone else who disagrees.

 

[MorriganTait]

Religious Bodies which are the Largest Church
in One or More U.S. States, 1990
Below is a list of religious bodies which are the largest church in one or more U.S. states:

Denomination Number of States in which this Church is the
Largest Denomination States
Catholic 36
Rhode Island (63%), Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Mexico, New Hampshire, Vermont, Minnesota, Michigan, California, Maine, Nebraska, Texas, Hawaii, South Dakota, Ohio, Iowa, Arizona, Delaware, Maryland, Montana, Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Indiana, Florida, Washington, Oregon, Alaska (8%)
Southern Baptist Convention 10
Mississippi (33%), Alabama, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Arkansas, Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia (12%)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 2
Utah (71%), Idaho (27%)
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 1
North Dakota (28%)
United Methodist Church 1
West Virginia (10%)

 

[Reba]

...When my parents got a Divorce about five years ago,
they did NOT realize how much it had an effect
on me.

I think that they might NOT realize how much
this bothered me for years. I felt as if I'm badly damaged
and destroyed by their Divorce. I still believe that
their Divorce was NOT even necessary at all.
What a waste ! They missed a great opportunity
to grow old together. ...

Yes, divorce is terrible, and it effects the whole family for a loooooonng time. I was crushed when my parents divorced, and it effected me for many years. When my brother got a divorce, I hurt so much for him, too. Too many people divorce for no good reason.

(I'm not saying women should stay in the same house with abusive or dangerous men. I'm talking about people who are NOT in those situations.)

 

[Reba]

de·nom·i·na·tion n.
A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

According to the dictionary, that is the definition of a religious denomination. That's why independent Baptists are not included in "denomination" stats because they have no hierarchy.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

Now, MT status you gave reba, that's what I meant, and I always knew cathoilics is larger than southern baptist, I knew its a 2nd largest, but there are different views about betwn catholics and protestants or denominations. Some catholic prefer stay label as a catholic apart from denominations. The status you showed is a lot different than the one you sent me and I figure it doesn't seem right. But as religions go, I know there are larger religons than christians. Netrox, do you know I love amish people and totally respect them so much and not only that I met these people here in ohio. We shared our laughs together. You gonna have to understand, again, not all fundies are the same. I do agree some are way too extreme which I don't approve of. Bec Christ called us toministered, not condemning and I even face some christians are far too extreme. I'm noton the extreme category and no, fundies is not repsonsible of all of this. And not only that, did you know other country call this is a christian country and thought christians condones all the behaviors and called america a sodom country? They try to destroy this country. They got that messed up bec this isn't call a christian country. Also, all have sin not one side is worse than the other. And also, giving amish a compliment for not voting, to me it isn't compliment. The reason amish didn't vote is bec thinking is not good and also, they believe like we have is sinful and destroy the land, like polluted water, electricity and using gas affect the enviroment. Is that mean they are wrong? No. What people who's not amish did to them? Mocking them and even incident when high schooler throw bricked and killed their baby while riding the buggy. Its a cruel thing to do. Like I said, not all are the same.

 

[Cloggy]

The reason why I believe that God do NOT want
the Exact Equality between Men and Women:

Look why did God create Adam FIRST, and then Eve ?

If God want Equality, then He could have created
both Adam and Eve at the SAME Time as Equal.

I'm sure there are many interpretations to the story, but my straightforward, logical interpretation is that if nem and women are not equal in the eye of God, then after creating Adam, He saw that there needed to be some improvement and created Eve.

 

[Y]

If they are not equal, then after creating Adam, He saw that there needed to be some improvement and created Eve.

Maybe so.. but we must remember that God is always Perfect
with everything Right ? Therefore, if PERFECT then
"some improvement" was not necessary about creating Eve
as the second person in a little inferior way as part of
His Plan.