Why?

Defmusicman said:
Shel, you are making a difference!! And there's your confirmation! Keep up the good work and I wish there were more teachers like you! Way to go!!
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:ty:

There are a lot of good teachers at many deaf schools..I am not the only one! Ha!
 
yup yup - my dad and one of my aunt's are teachers as well so I tend to have a bit more respect for the profession than most.
 
Dixie said:
yup yup - my dad and one of my aunt's are teachers as well so I tend to have a bit more respect for the profession than most.
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Me, as well. My grandmother, two aunts, and two nephews are also teachers in my family. Makes a difference in the way you see things, doesn't it?
 
jillio said:
Guess not. Should we solicit the participation of some more of them in these forums?
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Ha..lol. I did tell some of them about this site but they never got caught onto it. I was just talking to a speech teacher today..I dont know how the topic was brought up and she was telling me that she would never get a CI for her child if she has a deaf baby. I asked why and she said she is tired of dealing with many of her students who have CIs complain about headaches from the lound sounds. I said what about mapping and she just said "I give up..sooo COMPLICATED!!!" OOOPPPSSS..seems like I brought up a sensitive topic. She said "Just let Deaf children be deaf.." I told her that u are a speech teacher and u are not supposed to say that and she was like "duh..right! " Seems like she is frustrated by the high expectations put on her to work miracles with the students' oral skills but it doesnt take one person. It takes everyone including the children themselves too. Are the headaches a common thing among CI users? Just curious...none of my students with CIs complain about headaches as far as I know.
 
You know, it's funny , because Jillio you seem to come off as the end all know all of Deaf culture and community and I take great offense to that. At time your responses are downright arrogant to parents who have implanted their children.While I think, (and you always seem to bash my 2 cents) some of these parents are looking for a "cure" or a denial one their child's deafness- the majority of parents I have encountered are truly invovled in their children's lives. There is no easy road map of raising a child- any child- and we all will make mistakes. But the mistakes aren't made because we didn't care. The claims that some of these parents have made regarding their child's progress I complteley believe...I've seen it in my very own child. I never thought that my child would be as successful as he is today. And no, he doesn't spend hours at speech therapy every week...He is a child with a hearing loss- his deafness does not define him- he defines his deafness. My experiences, while not like yours, are just as valuable, and I DO live in the Deaf world every single day...I do have a son who is implanted, but my parents are Deaf... I learned to sign before I learned to speak... my son has Deaf uncles and aunts... and with all this, I still chose to have my son implanted...

Shel: I wish there were more TOD's like you out there, but unfortunately, where I am (there are 3 Deaf schools around me) you would be the minority- not the majority. I used to be a job coach for Deaf High School students. It used to break my heart with the stories I have heard and witnessed over the years. Parents even saying to me "can you tell her/him..........." I would be appalled . But, like I have said earlier, parents that I've encountered that have had their children implanted, it's not the same... The communication barrier isn't just there....

My child is lucky... He had the best of both worlds and he is perfectly aware of who he is and how very very special he is.. My child has made a difference .. he has opened doors even in our own family... My dad broke down and cried when he saw my son singing ( albeit not very well, but none of my other 4 children can carry a tune either!) in a concert with his peers and then signing some of the words... My father's words" Wonderful, God gave us a wonderful boy" Then watched as he played the cello. He is in 3 grade... above grade level in every subject.. and has many many friends...This year especially- he has become the social butterfly....

I'm glad that your son is doing well but the ASL route is not for everyone, and that needs to be respected as well... it's a two way street and at times, I just feel that you are sooo set in your ways (like my mother) that you cannot just admit that there are successes!!

Again, go ahead and bash me.. you've done it before.... but I just felt compelled to write... you chastized cloggy for not living in the Deaf world, and hey I do.............My parents live 15 miles from me... My in-laws live 2 .. my Deaf nephew stays at my house almost every weekend............I could go on and on.............
 
shel90 said:
I told her that u are a speech teacher and u are not supposed to say that and she was like "duh..right! "
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Where do you get the idea that a speech teacher are not supposed to say that? wow!
 
shel90 said:
Ha..lol. I did tell some of them about this site but they never got caught onto it. I was just talking to a speech teacher today..I dont know how the topic was brought up and she was telling me that she would never get a CI for her child if she has a deaf baby. I asked why and she said she is tired of dealing with many of her students who have CIs complain about headaches from the lound sounds. I said what about mapping and she just said "I give up..sooo COMPLICATED!!!" OOOPPPSSS..seems like I brought up a sensitive topic. She said "Just let Deaf children be deaf.." I told her that u are a speech teacher and u are not supposed to say that and she was like "duh..right! " Seems like she is frustrated by the high expectations put on her to work miracles with the students' oral skills but it doesnt take one person. It takes everyone including the children themselves too. Are the headaches a common thing among CI users? Just curious...none of my students with CIs complain about headaches as far as I know.
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I dunno about students with CIs but I did get headaches in the beginning but I'm prone to migraine headaches so those headaches were easy to ignore. I don't get them now unless I skip a meal.
 
Boult said:
Where do you get the idea that a speech teacher are not supposed to say that? wow!
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Ohhh no...
I was just teasing her and we were being silly. I would be crazy to say something like that for real. LOL.
 
doubletrouble said:
You know, it's funny , because Jillio you seem to come off as the end all know all of Deaf culture and community and I take great offense to that. At time your responses are downright arrogant to parents who have implanted their children.While I think, (and you always seem to bash my 2 cents) some of these parents are looking for a "cure" or a denial one their child's deafness- the majority of parents I have encountered are truly invovled in their children's lives. There is no easy road map of raising a child- any child- and we all will make mistakes. But the mistakes aren't made because we didn't care. The claims that some of these parents have made regarding their child's progress I complteley believe...I've seen it in my very own child. I never thought that my child would be as successful as he is today. And no, he doesn't spend hours at speech therapy every week...He is a child with a hearing loss- his deafness does not define him- he defines his deafness. My experiences, while not like yours, are just as valuable, and I DO live in the Deaf world every single day...I do have a son who is implanted, but my parents are Deaf... I learned to sign before I learned to speak... my son has Deaf uncles and aunts... and with all this, I still chose to have my son implanted...

Shel: I wish there were more TOD's like you out there, but unfortunately, where I am (there are 3 Deaf schools around me) you would be the minority- not the majority. I used to be a job coach for Deaf High School students. It used to break my heart with the stories I have heard and witnessed over the years. Parents even saying to me "can you tell her/him..........." I would be appalled . But, like I have said earlier, parents that I've encountered that have had their children implanted, it's not the same... The communication barrier isn't just there....

My child is lucky... He had the best of both worlds and he is perfectly aware of who he is and how very very special he is.. My child has made a difference .. he has opened doors even in our own family... My dad broke down and cried when he saw my son singing ( albeit not very well, but none of my other 4 children can carry a tune either!) in a concert with his peers and then signing some of the words... My father's words" Wonderful, God gave us a wonderful boy" Then watched as he played the cello. He is in 3 grade... above grade level in every subject.. and has many many friends...This year especially- he has become the social butterfly....

I'm glad that your son is doing well but the ASL route is not for everyone, and that needs to be respected as well... it's a two way street and at times, I just feel that you are sooo set in your ways (like my mother) that you cannot just admit that there are successes!!

Again, go ahead and bash me.. you've done it before.... but I just felt compelled to write... you chastized cloggy for not living in the Deaf world, and hey I do.............My parents live 15 miles from me... My in-laws live 2 .. my Deaf nephew stays at my house almost every weekend............I could go on and on.............
Click to expand...

Once again, making assumptions. I have never said the ASL route is for everyone, nor have I ever said that parents should not implant their children. What I have said is that when parents have im-lanted their children they need to understand that the child is still deaf, and should be exposed to sign as sell as spoken language. It is not the fact that cloggy has implanted his child that makes me respond harshly--it is the fact that cloggy has implanted his child and now insists that his child is hearing. As a counselor, I see the results of this attitude on a daily basis on kids and young adults; as a PhD. candidate working in a college environment, I see the negative effects of that attitude on children educationally.

Your child, even though implanted, is exposed to the deaf community and signing. Therefore, your child is being offered already the advantages that I porpose are necessary for deaf children of hearing parents to grow into successful, well adjusted, well educated adults.

I'm sorry if you find me arrogant, but arrogance and assertiveness are two of the qualities that are necessary when advocating for my deaf students. Without it, they are left to flounder around in the educational system without all of the services they need simply because it is easier not to provide services and unless someone puts up a fight, they will not be provided on the assumption that hte student did not ask for them. But students are coming into college without the proper transition services, are not aware of what they ar3e entitled to or how to obtain the services, or what procedure to follow if they are not provided services in a timely manner. And several of these students are CI students who were provided no more than a notetaker throughout high school, because their parents, who insisted that they function orally, signed off on an IEP that directed that the student was to receive minimal services. Now these students arrive at college, thinking that as they have been pushed through the public school system, subjected to different standards than their hearing peers, and pretty much been allowed to make reading errors and grammar errors that are forgiven rather than attended to with support services, and they believe that becasue they have a high school diploma they are ready for college level work. I have yet to meet one in my area that did not need remedial services. They need to take remedial courses not because they are less intelligent than the hearing studnets, and not because they are less capable than the hearing students, but because they have not been provided the services they need in order to excell at the same rate as the hearing students. I find this an unacceptable injustice for these deaf students. If you find that situation acceptable, then yes, we disagree.

I have never held myself up as an expert on Deaf culture. As a matter of fact, I have stated numerous times that I have a strong understanding an empathy, but do not know what it is to live as a deaf adult. However, the fact that I have been involved directly in Deaf culture for a nuimber of years, and have taken time to really listen to what I am told about the experiences of the people I have come into contact with, and deal with their problems on a daily basis as a counselor, I do have more of an understanding than a hearing person who has not had the same experience. But in the end, Deaf individuals are the experts, and they are the ones I look to for guidance in my understanding.

If you feel that I have bashed you in this reply, then I am sorry that you perceive it that way. I see it simply as an explanation, as you obviously have made some errors in judgement of who I am and what I do, not to mention what I believe and advocate for.
 
hearingfriend said:
I see Goldie on Monday evenings when I take the sign language lab and on Wednesdays evenings when I take class so not sure about running around on the soccer field. I love that dog and have told Peter many times I want her! I love that I can even practice sign language with her...I tried telling her to sit and stay one time but she didn't understand until I signed it to her!
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My hearing dog, Snickers, understands and responds to asl.
 
shel90 said:
. . . all my life I had hearing people patronize me cuz they looked down on me and then here this happens again. No...f*ck that! I have come a long way from being put down and it aint happening again. I cant believe that they are so blind on what they are doing. It is unbelievable.
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Atta Girl!!! You Rock!!:whip::thumb: I knew there was a reason I liked you . . . :ugh3: too bad you're married. Your story reminds me of my own, except I couldn't get the help I needed and had to sit in the back of the class.
 
LMM said:
Jillio
Very good venting. hope Lots ppl read your post!
this is why LMM don't post, because same reason she was put down for her typing. Yes I have relpy a few times for her. But people even put me down!

Sorry to say this, But people here cloud have learn alot from LMM. Her day 7 night, She Live's & Breath ASL, Deaf life.
She has terps for Dr. Hospital appt's etc.... She could of help others, but did they treat her fair? No.
Her basic language is ASL. I have question her on some questions that was ask on the board. If they were doing the ASL sign correct. She then would tell me the sign was S.E.E. Or I would know w/o asking her. People ask other How to terp ASL words into English on paper, Some of those answer were VERY wrong. ASL grammer & santax is a Very important tool to ASL.

There is 1 person on this board that knows LMM is a true Proud Deaf. LMM & other person very close friends. This person is another proud deaf. This person is Cap Deaf even thou has Very good hearing. Why is person Cap Deaf? Because person is total invoild in the deaf & works very hard w/them. Make sure they have terps for their appts. Supplies the hospitals & doctors w/ terps & now getting C.A.R.T.S. in the office's.
This person knows whom I'm speaking of. LMM is Very greatfull to this person & the ppl who work @ office. This person has seen frist hand how LMM gets mad at hospital not calling for an terp. How hospital thinks they can use pen & paper. that may be fine w/ some deaf/hoh. But LMM don't read English like most deaf/hoh. When she writes back its same some what if she was signing. She has to keep writing short or she can confuse hearing people. Longer writing, You can tell how the detail of her ASL. Not easy if you have no idea of ASL. It takes someone who knows ASL to terp what she had written.
She would loved to have helped put here w/ my or her friends help. But no such help from her now.
I do hope that this board, Can open their eyes and Listen what the Deaf do have to say. Maybe if people prove that they will listen, Maybe we can have LMM help.
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LMM,

I haven't heard from you for a long time. PM me sometime. The only other person I know who is profoundly deaf and understands is Heath, a good friend of whom I miss communicating with. I have his email, so will drop him a note to see how he's doing.
 
jillio said:
Once again, making assumptions. I have never said the ASL route is for everyone, nor have I ever said that parents should not implant their children. What I have said is that when parents have im-lanted their children they need to understand that the child is still deaf, and should be exposed to sign as sell as spoken language. It is not the fact that cloggy has implanted his child that makes me respond harshly--it is the fact that cloggy has implanted his child and now insists that his child is hearing. As a counselor, I see the results of this attitude on a daily basis on kids and young adults; as a PhD. candidate working in a college environment, I see the negative effects of that attitude on children educationally.

Your child, even though implanted, is exposed to the deaf community and signing. Therefore, your child is being offered already the advantages that I porpose are necessary for deaf children of hearing parents to grow into successful, well adjusted, well educated adults.

I'm sorry if you find me arrogant, but arrogance and assertiveness are two of the qualities that are necessary when advocating for my deaf students. Without it, they are left to flounder around in the educational system without all of the services they need simply because it is easier not to provide services and unless someone puts up a fight, they will not be provided on the assumption that hte student did not ask for them. But students are coming into college without the proper transition services, are not aware of what they ar3e entitled to or how to obtain the services, or what procedure to follow if they are not provided services in a timely manner. And several of these students are CI students who were provided no more than a notetaker throughout high school, because their parents, who insisted that they function orally, signed off on an IEP that directed that the student was to receive minimal services. Now these students arrive at college, thinking that as they have been pushed through the public school system, subjected to different standards than their hearing peers, and pretty much been allowed to make reading errors and grammar errors that are forgiven rather than attended to with support services, and they believe that becasue they have a high school diploma they are ready for college level work. I have yet to meet one in my area that did not need remedial services. They need to take remedial courses not because they are less intelligent than the hearing studnets, and not because they are less capable than the hearing students, but because they have not been provided the services they need in order to excell at the same rate as the hearing students. I find this an unacceptable injustice for these deaf students. If you find that situation acceptable, then yes, we disagree.

I have never held myself up as an expert on Deaf culture. As a matter of fact, I have stated numerous times that I have a strong understanding an empathy, but do not know what it is to live as a deaf adult. However, the fact that I have been involved directly in Deaf culture for a nuimber of years, and have taken time to really listen to what I am told about the experiences of the people I have come into contact with, and deal with their problems on a daily basis as a counselor, I do have more of an understanding than a hearing person who has not had the same experience. But in the end, Deaf individuals are the experts, and they are the ones I look to for guidance in my understanding.

If you feel that I have bashed you in this reply, then I am sorry that you perceive it that way. I see it simply as an explanation, as you obviously have made some errors in judgement of who I am and what I do, not to mention what I believe and advocate for.
Click to expand...

:gpost:
 
pek1 said:
Atta Girl!!! You Rock!!:whip::thumb: I knew there was a reason I liked you . . . :ugh3: too bad you're married. Your story reminds me of my own, except I couldn't get the help I needed and had to sit in the back of the class.
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:giggle:

Did the teachers make u sit in the back of the class? My teachers made me sit in the front of the class but then they would walk around the classroom while lecturing on a lesson and that defeated the purpose of putting me in the front of the class! Oh boy..
 
shel90 said:
:giggle:

Did the teachers make u sit in the back of the class? My teachers made me sit in the front of the class but then they would walk around the classroom while lecturing on a lesson and that defeated the purpose of putting me in the front of the class! Oh boy..
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No. It was in Bible college that I had to sit in back because the class was full and my previous class didn't let out on time. Regardless, I always had to sit in back and the instructor did nothing about it.

In grade school, I always sat in front because my mother said so (I was a good boy! ;) ). As an adult, I favor the front.
 
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