Why - Why the Medical Society constantly pressure on the Parents?

[jackiesolorzano]

I am familiar with consent for surgery. The consent is only as good as the individual supplying the information. Parents make their own choices when it comes to vaccinations, the move being, although not something that I agree with, none or very few vaccinnations. So even IF the surgeon asked about a vaccinnation does not mean that the parents have consented to the said vaccination. This does not mean that the parents are not making an informed decision. The reposibility lies with the parent.



What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with the surgery. If the ASL community wants families informed about ASL then the reposnisibility lies with them.

I agree with you, if the Deaf community wants parents to use ASL or find out about the Deaf community, then they need to do that themselves. I would rather doctors and hospital focus on what they are going to be doing what is surgery in the case of CI, let them be the experts on that and let the Deaf community be the experts on sign language.


So what if they promote oral. My questions was not about "ASL or any other method, my question was this:

I think instead of sitting here complaining of what the doctors and every one else is not doing they (Deaf community) should get organized and develop a plan of informing parents of what they think their child needs.

 

[jillio]

I think instead of sitting here complaining of what the doctors and every one else is not doing they (Deaf community) should get organized and develop a plan of informing parents of what they think their child needs.

Imagine that! A hearing person telling the Deaf community what they need to do. That's never happened before!

One has to point out where the problems lie before one knows what to address.

Maybe that is the problem with the oralist philosophy. They think the problem lies with lack of speech, so they address the wrong thing. Looks to me like investigating what the true problem is, and exactly where it is located is the wise thing to do.

 

[rick48]

Thanks everyone. I am better today. Dr says I will have ups and downs and yesterday was a bad one.

Anyways, back to the topic and back to Rick's question.

In family ed, the children with CIs or who are hard of hearing get intensive speech therapy while getting ASL for language development. My student got 5 days of speech therapy with 1 day spent at the implant center for AVT when she was a toddler. She was able to develop spoken language just fine so now she has speech 5 days a week in the afternoons after all academics have been taught. None of the kids are taken out during the academic classes like language arts, math, social studies and science for speech or other therapy. Our philosophy is education (especially literacy) comes first and the parents understand that when their children are in the family ed program. Some parents put their kids in public school where the oral only approach is used and some parents keep their kids at our school.

However, I am glad that they all had enrolled their children in family ed for exposure to both languages to ensure that their children are not deprived of a language. It makes the difference.

Glad you are feeling better.

What is the age group for the Family Ed program? By intensive speech therapy can you describe how many hours per week and how much is individual and how much group?

The student you are referring to who is doing well is getting it five days a week but for how long. What about students who are not doing as well, what is the program for them? Also, what grade level is your student?
Thanks

 

[shel90]

Glad you are feeling better.

What is the age group for the Family Ed program? By intensive speech therapy can you describe how many hours per week and how much is individual and how much group?

The student you are referring to who is doing well is getting it five days a week but for how long. What about students who are not doing as well, what is the program for them? Also, what grade level is your student?
Thanks

Family ed is from infant to 4 years old. The amount of speech therapy varies with each child. I cant really give u the exact numbers cuz I dont work in Family Ed.

About my student...she will recieve speech therapy 5 days a week as long as her parents put it in her IEP.

All of the students whether they have oral skills or not are all in the same program....BiBi program. Nobody is in separate groups during academic instructions regardless of how well their oral skills. Everyone is treated equal and get equal access to education.

I teach 3rd graders.

 

[shel90]

Imagine that! A hearing person telling the Deaf community what they need to do. That's never happened before!

One has to point out where the problems lie before one knows what to address.

Maybe that is the problem with the oralist philosophy. They think the problem lies with lack of speech, so they address the wrong thing. Looks to me like investigating what the true problem is, and exactly where it is located is the wise thing to do.

Really, the whole society really do need to change their way of thinking when it comes to deafness and speech skills. Too much focus on those two. We should focus on what modifications we can use to ensure that EVERY child gets full acess to language and put the quality of education they get first before everything.

 

[rick48]

Family ed is from infant to 4 years old. The amount of speech therapy varies with each child. I cant really give u the exact numbers cuz I dont work in Family Ed.

About my student...she will recieve speech therapy 5 days a week as long as her parents put it in her IEP.

All of the students whether they have oral skills or not are all in the same program....BiBi program. Nobody is in separate groups during academic instructions regardless of how well their oral skills. Everyone is treated equal and get equal access to education.

I teach 3rd graders.

Thanks,

The Family Ed program seems similar in scope to many of the oral programs we investigated for our daughter. What I do not see is how this is BI-Bi program with emphsis on the first Bi? It seems that what has been done is to swap ASL for SEE and rename it from TC to Bi-Bi. As you have described, all the classroom instruction is done in ASL, in fact you stated that you and other teachers do not even use your voices, let alone speak in English as you sign so your children are getting practically no academic instruction in a spoken language.

I am confident that if I visited your school, outside of the Family Ed program and S&L therapy, I would find that nearly all of the communication throughout the day between and amongst teachers, administrators and students is in ASL and that oral communication is rare.

I do not have a problem with that, and frankly do not care for it is not a program I would initially place a child with a cochlear implant into. But that is each parent's decision to make. However to call the program Bi-lingual, to me is a misnomer. Is seems that it is predominantly an ASL program and if a student can pick up an oral language fine and if not, fine also.
Rick

 

[rick48]

I think instead of sitting here complaining of what the doctors and every one else is not doing they (Deaf community) should get organized and develop a plan of informing parents of what they think their child needs.

You are so right Jackie, but that would require them to do something and it is so much easier to sit back do nothing and then complain about what others are doing!
Rick

 

[shel90]

Thanks,

The Family Ed program seems similar in scope to many of the oral programs we investigated for our daughter. What I do not see is how this is BI-Bi program with emphsis on the first Bi? It seems that what has been done is to swap ASL for SEE and rename it from TC to Bi-Bi. As you have described, all the classroom instruction is done in ASL, in fact you stated that you and other teachers do not even use your voices, let alone speak in English as you sign so your children are getting practically no academic instruction in a spoken language.

I am confident that if I visited your school, outside of the Family Ed program and S&L therapy, I would find that nearly all of the communication throughout the day between and amongst teachers, administrators and students is in ASL and that oral communication is rare.

I do not have a problem with that, and frankly do not care for it is not a program I would initially place a child with a cochlear implant into. But that is each parent's decision to make. However to call the program Bi-lingual, to me is a misnomer. Is seems that it is predominantly an ASL program and if a student can pick up an oral language fine and if not, fine also.
Rick

TC uses any mode of communication ASL, SEE, PSE, oral in one classroom (see Deafbajagal"s thread about quitting teaching) while the BiBi doesnt so pls do not say that these programs are the same. We also teach and expose the kids to both hearing and Deaf cultures while TC and oral programs dont.

The kids are learning English too so they are using both languages so they are fluent in two languages.

My view is different....I see oral deaf ed as an environment where deaf children do not have equal access to language as hearing kids or being put at risk for language deprivation which is why we use a language that is fully accessible to all children regardless of their dB loss and that language is ASL. Nobody is missing out on anything that is being discussed in the classrooms and that is the most important thing to me. CIs do not give children full 100% access to spoken language like hearing kids which is why I dont feel the oral-only approach is an appropriate setting for deaf children whether they are implanted or not.

We respect that not all children can develop oral skills but they will never be put at an disadvantage in the educational setting.

Also, so what if the curriculm is taught in ASL...the kids are learning! Nobody is missing out on anything. What I hate is how we get so many older kids who fell so far behind academically due to missing out on what is taught in the oral-only environment. That is just so wrong.

 

[shel90]

My question is..why is having oral skills more important than the quality of education?

I just dont understand how it is ok to put deaf children in an educational environment where they dont have equal access to education as hearing children to. Is that the sake for having good speech skills?

 

[loml]

My question is..why is having oral skills more important than the quality of education?

shel90- I do not recall anyone saying having oral skills is more important than the quality of education.

I just dont understand how it is ok to put deaf children in an educational environment where they dont have equal access to education as hearing children to. Is that the sake for having good speech skills?

shel90 - I completely agree with equal access to education and information. Cued Speech can/does provide full access to spoken English and English print. The fact that Cued Speech aslo removes ambiquity in speech reading, as I have said before is a bonus. If a Speech Therapist chooses to incorporate cueing into their program, then that would be their decision. I certainly cannot think of a negative with this choice.

 

[shel90]

shel90- I do not recall anyone saying having oral skills is more important than the quality of education.



shel90 - I completely agree with equal access to education and information. Cued Speech can/does provide full access to spoken English and English print. The fact that Cued Speech aslo removes ambiquity in speech reading, as I have said before is a bonus. If a Speech Therapist chooses to incorporate cueing into their program, then that would be their decision. I certainly cannot think of a negative with this choice.

Why put deaf kids in an oral-only environment using their weakest sense? I dont understand that at all.

 

[loml]

Why put deaf kids in an oral-only environment using their weakest sense? I dont understand that at all.

shel90- I do not have an answer for that.

 

[jillio]

Thanks,

The Family Ed program seems similar in scope to many of the oral programs we investigated for our daughter. What I do not see is how this is BI-Bi program with emphsis on the first Bi? It seems that what has been done is to swap ASL for SEE and rename it from TC to Bi-Bi. As you have described, all the classroom instruction is done in ASL, in fact you stated that you and other teachers do not even use your voices, let alone speak in English as you sign so your children are getting practically no academic instruction in a spoken language.

I am confident that if I visited your school, outside of the Family Ed program and S&L therapy, I would find that nearly all of the communication throughout the day between and amongst teachers, administrators and students is in ASL and that oral communication is rare.

I do not have a problem with that, and frankly do not care for it is not a program I would initially place a child with a cochlear implant into. But that is each parent's decision to make. However to call the program Bi-lingual, to me is a misnomer. Is seems that it is predominantly an ASL program and if a student can pick up an oral language fine and if not, fine also.
Rick

Using ASL is the very factor that makes is a bilingual program. SEE is not a language separate in and of itself....SEE is English. Therefore, any program using speech and SEE is a monolingual program. The problems that are evident with SEE are the same problems that are evident with any monolingual approach with deaf students. Language deprivation.

 

[jillio]

You are so right Jackie, but that would require them to do something and it is so much easier to sit back do nothing and then complain about what others are doing!
Rick

And yet another hearing person attempting to determine for the deaf what is best for them.

 

[jillio]

Why put deaf kids in an oral-only environment using their weakest sense? I dont understand that at all.

It does not make sense, shel, and the very attitude behind such a practice speaks volumes of the attitude toward of those who propose this method.

 

[jillio]

shel90- I do not recall anyone saying having oral skills is more important than the quality of education.



shel90 - I completely agree with equal access to education and information. Cued Speech can/does provide full access to spoken English and English print. The fact that Cued Speech aslo removes ambiquity in speech reading, as I have said before is a bonus. If a Speech Therapist chooses to incorporate cueing into their program, then that would be their decision. I certainly cannot think of a negative with this choice.

It is still a monolongual program relying on an incomplete access to whole language.

 

[shel90]

You are so right Jackie, but that would require them to do something and it is so much easier to sit back do nothing and then complain about what others are doing!
Rick

That was a direct insult to the Deaf community. I thought we were all supposed to respect each other but guess not.

 

[shel90]

I think instead of sitting here complaining of what the doctors and every one else is not doing they (Deaf community) should get organized and develop a plan of informing parents of what they think their child needs.

They do...just not as well-known as AGBad due to lack of funding or people putting them down calling them Deaf militants, close-minded, or Anti-CI.

 

[jillio]

Really, the whole society really do need to change their way of thinking when it comes to deafness and speech skills. Too much focus on those two. We should focus on what modifications we can use to ensure that EVERY child gets full acess to language and put the quality of education they get first before everything.

Speaking does not lead to greater independence. Education does.

 

[jillio]

Back on topic:

Yet another misleading comment by a medical professional pushing for infant implantation:

Dupree wishes parents would wait until the children were old enough to decide for themselves.

However, Dr. John Greinwald, with Cincinnati Children's Hospital, said that by that age it's too late.