Why Cochlear Implants Hurt Deaf Culture?

[Liebling:-)))]

In netherlands that where cloggy lives in.. They do not allow deaf children with CI to mingle with Deaf children with signers or HA. What a disaster to see this happens in this world... Thats very outrageous.

Yes, it's very true... It's not just Cloggy's country but here in Germany as well which sad!

A lot of CI children go to HOH (oral or hard of hearing school) because of no sign language. They should not use sign accord hearing parent's wish.

My hubby met CI users at Rehab. clinic last year. He was told that he do not allow to involve with CI users during meal time... CI users group have their own meal tables separate from deafies group meal table.

My hubby is allow to involve with CI users during break time. Of course deafies asked the doctor during evening meeting why they are not allow to involve with CI users on meal table. The doctor answered their question accord scientist professor that CI users and deafies should separate stricty because CI users should consider their speech/hearing development more than instead of use sign. They are scared that CI users might neglect their speech/hearing development to depend on sign language.

 

[Cloggy]

.........In netherlands that where cloggy lives in.. They do not allow deaf children with CI to mingle with Deaf children with signers or HA. What a disaster to see this happens in this world... Thats very outrageous....... JEEZ!!!

Sweetmind.... where on earth do you get all this nonsense. I have never read nor heared anything about it and I have read most of the dutch articles. From deaf and hearing parties.
Oh yeh, and it's Norway. I have mentioned that to you before in the messageboard across the street.
I'm Dutch, living in Norway.

 

[Cloggy]

.......
My hubby is allow to involve with CI users during break time. Of course deafies asked the doctor during evening meeting why they are not allow to involve with CI users on meal table. The doctor answered their question accord scientist professor that CI users and deafies should separate stricty because CI users should consider their speech/hearing development more than instead of use sign. They are scared that CI users might neglect their speech/hearing development to depend on sign language.

... I agree that not being allowed to mingle is totally wrong. Communication between CI-users and sign-users should be encouraged.

But I can see the reasoning behind it. If money has been invested in providing CI, then the investor wants to have the best outcome. Being submerged in speech is then desired.
But to do this during luch-breaks etc. is just wrong!!

In Holland there are relative few sign-translators. FAr less then in Norway and perhaps this is because there are fewer people that sign. I really do not know since I live in norway. I know that there are deaf schoold where ONLY sign is used and I can imagine that this is not the place for a child that has CI.
But the accusation of Sweetmind is (so-far) unfounded. I have not read anything about it and I therefore doubt it strongly.

 

[Boult]

In netherlands that where cloggy lives in.. They do not allow deaf children with CI to mingle with Deaf children with signers or HA. What a disaster to see this happens in this world... Thats very outrageous.

I find this statement absurd!

Read this:
Deaf education changes in the Netherlands

Anyway, Cloggy don't live in Netherlands, He lives in Norway but he's Dutch though...

 

[Boult]

... I agree that not being allowed to mingle is totally wrong. Communication between CI-users and sign-users should be encouraged.

But I can see the reasoning behind it. If money has been invested in providing CI, then the investor wants to have the best outcome. Being submerged in speech is then desired.
But to do this during luch-breaks etc. is just wrong!!

In Holland there are relative few sign-translators. FAr less then in Norway and perhaps this is because there are fewer people that sign. I really do not know since I live in norway. I know that there are deaf schoold where ONLY sign is used and I can imagine that this is not the place for a child that has CI.
But the accusation of Sweetmind is (so-far) unfounded. I have not read anything about it and I therefore doubt it strongly.

While you are in Amsterdam, be sure to stop by SWDA and enjoy their lunch and drink there they do have website but it is empty; http://www.swda.org/ (short for Stichting Welzijn Doven Amsterdam ) more info about this can be seen at: http://www.apcp.nl/C12.html (not far from Heineken Brewery eh on same straat as SWDA ) I spent 6 months in 96 there... It was fun meeting doven there... learning their dutch as I go in voice and signs. almost got me stuck in dutch when I got back and I had to adapt into english lol..

 

[Cloggy]

.........(not far from Heineken Brewery eh on same straat as SWDA )

...so that's how you came across SWDA....

 

[Boult]

...so that's how you came across SWDA....

well, not really, when I came to Netherlands , I was looking up for deaf club in Amsterdam to hang out to have fun. that was back in 96 that time I had no CI and I was anti-ci that time but not anymore though... I still have friends there. anyway.. I found out where SWDA is so, I drove out to that place from my company flat (the one in the middle of three in the center of the map) in Aalsmeer (since I worked in Hoofddorp ). I happen to see the brewery while driving by... and the person who works at SWDA tending the bar tells me they get kegs from there.

 

[Angel]

I find this statement absurd!

Read this:
Deaf education changes in the Netherlands

Ahh Thank you for providing this information, I'm learning something new everyday!

 

[Boult]

Ahh Thank you for providing this information, I'm learning something new everyday!

note the usage of the word "Deaf" and "Hearing Impaired" wow they really thought it out real good.

 

[Cloggy]

.......Netherlands .......Amsterdam ....company flat ....Aalsmeer Hoofddorp.....

Isn't it great this Wikipedia. Came across it couple of years ago... WOW

 

[Boult]

Isn't it great this Wikipedia. Came across it couple of years ago... WOW

 

[Sweetmind]

Yes, it's very true... It's not just Cloggy's country but here in Germany as well which sad!

Thank you for letting me know.. I know it s true which is totally sad.

Cloggy You are twisted around too much lately

Here is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmind

I have been told that deaf children with CIs are not allowed to be with other d/Deaf children HAs or No HAs with signings [somewhere out of usa] in their country that person went to see it. I was shocked to see this happen is for a real. Thats how I feel offended by this audist attitude.

..........
Cloggy 's statement ---->>>>>

I'm sure it happens. There are different view on how to get the best out of the CI.

You are not telling the truth that is a proven here....

Rest my case

Sweetmind

 

[neecy]

... I agree that not being allowed to mingle is totally wrong. Communication between CI-users and sign-users should be encouraged.

But I can see the reasoning behind it. If money has been invested in providing CI, then the investor wants to have the best outcome. Being submerged in speech is then desired.
But to do this during luch-breaks etc. is just wrong!!

In Holland there are relative few sign-translators. FAr less then in Norway and perhaps this is because there are fewer people that sign. I really do not know since I live in norway. I know that there are deaf schoold where ONLY sign is used and I can imagine that this is not the place for a child that has CI.
But the accusation of Sweetmind is (so-far) unfounded. I have not read anything about it and I therefore doubt it strongly.

You make some good points (actually in your posts here and elsewhere you've made MANY) unfortunately there are some who simply do NOT want to see evidence to the contrary because it means they will have to admit they were wrong.

 

[Sweetmind]

yea yea right.... . All schools have the requirement to have the speech classes. Dont deny it. And forced those kids to have HA or CI that u conform them as usual.. You dont allowed deaf children to make the choice until they are on their own.. they changed and finally felt so comfortable with their hands to communicate than orally speaking itself alone.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

You dont allowed deaf children to make the choice until they are on their own..

I understand your point about SL being 'natural choice' for deaf child, I really do. I think you have valid point here.

But allowing ANY children to make decision for themselves is just not possible.
Children does not have maturity and wisdom needed to make important choices. The parents have to do it for them..
Ask any child if they want to go to school and work hard to get an education. I'll bet every kid will say they don't need it. Do you understand what I try to say??


Fuzzy

 

[Cloggy]

I have been told that deaf children with CIs are not allowed to be with other d/Deaf children HAs or No HAs with signings [somewhere out of usa] in their country that person went to see it. I was shocked to see this happen is for a real. Thats how I feel offended by this audist attitude.

YOu are saying that this is standard policy

I'm sure it happens. There are different view on how to get the best out of the CI.

I'm saying "it happens" meaning there are probably cases BASED ON DIFFERENT VIEWS.

Typically for you to read a post only the first sentence and then stop. Even when you quote me you don't read beyond the first "fullstop".

I am giving my daughter a choice. Had it been up to you, you would NOT have given a choice but forced ASL on the child.

Furtunately, nobody but the parent has the right to decide for the child.

Sometimes I have a feeling that extreme Deaf are looking for a way to remove the child from custady in order to raise it themselves. Scary thought.

 

[Sweetmind]

yeayea d/Deaf children are guiena pig as usual . They never stopped the experiment on d/Deaf children as usual.. Their experiement is usually failed as always.. You cannot make the child being like you as a hearing child. dont you get it? jeez

Hearing people are mixed up their head and dont get the hint for a long time.

Ha then CI then what s the next? jeez

The problem is that you dont know how to let deaf children to be themselves and not having to have the brainwash from audist attitude people who have no faith in us in many ways after all people are doing the barrier of communication themselves not us d/Deaf and hearing children who have the knowledge of ASL from the start.

Thats the purpose for d/Deaf children to have a gifted tool to use that works so well. YOu forced them to speak and hear only while you are mixed up their life and education in many ways. It has already proven.

IT MUST BE HEARING beacause you said so . Scoffs! You couldnt handle to deal with d/Deaf children in a way that is so outrageous for you to conform a child.

Guess what d/Deaf people out there are very successful without your help after all they used American Sign Language. You dont want to hear it and are willing to spend more time and money to manipulate on d/Deaf children that is already damaged from the start.

 

[Cloggy]

yeayea d/Deaf children are guiena pig as usual . They never stopped the experiment on d/Deaf children as usual.. Their experiement is usually failed as always.. You cannot make the child being like you as a hearing child. dont you get it? jeez

Hearing people are mixed up their head and dont get the hint for a long time.

Ha then CI then what s the next? jeez

The problem is that you dont know how to let deaf children to be themselves and not having to have the brainwash from audist attitude people who have no faith in us in many ways after all people are doing the barrier of communication themselves not us d/Deaf and hearing children who have the knowledge of ASL from the start.

Thats the purpose for d/Deaf children to have a gifted tool to use that works so well. YOu forced them to speak and hear only while you are mixed up their life and education in many ways. It has alread proven.

IT MUST BE HEARING beacause you said so . Scoffs! You couldnt handle to deal with d/Deaf children in a way that is so outrageous for you to conform a child.

So interesting how I have a child with CI and actually see how it works, and you just have a 10-year old picture in your head..... and still you know better.

But it's OK. You just state any idea you have here on the board. Especially use the "audist" word freely and add "scoffs" and "jeez" other moans to the posts.

I'm glad that on this messageboard there are more openminded people than across the road.

 

[Sweetmind]

I'm glad that on this messageboard there are more openminded people than across the road.

Scoffs you are not openminded to accept the term Deaf itself.. RME

 

[Cloggy]

yeayea d/Deaf children are guiena pig as usual . They never stopped the experiment on d/Deaf children as usual.. Their experiement is usually failed as always.. You cannot make the child being like you as a hearing child. dont you get it? jeez

..In any new technology there are people that break the frontiers for other people. And I am thankful for that because because of them my daughter can hear sounds. Looking at the success of the technology and how people here have explained how their experiences are, it has not failed. In fact, it was better than expected thanks to our brain that keeps amazing us...
My child doesn't need to be like me. She is like a hearing child, probably with some hearing loss.. something wrong with that?

Hearing people are mixed up their head and dont get the hint for a long time.

..Sure, we are mixed up...

Ha then CI then what s the next? jeez

...Next CI with bluetooth perhaps. No more coils, wires. Also there is stemcell research in order to make haircells grow when they are the problem of hearing loss...

The problem is that you dont know how to let deaf children to be themselves and not having to have the brainwash from audist attitude people who have no faith in us in many ways after all people are doing the barrier of communication themselves not us d/Deaf and hearing children who have the knowledge of ASL from the start.

... Brainwashing... a strong term... I haven't used that as an argument against your posts now have I. Why would you use such a term.
My daughter was 1 years old when we took the decision, 2¼ when she got the implant, so she was too young to be brainwashed. In fact, we couldn't communicate with her...
You are right about not having faith in "us" when "us" means you and people that think like you. But that's just a personal feeling.

Thats the purpose for d/Deaf children to have a gifted tool to use that works so well. YOu forced them to speak and hear only while you are mixed up their life and education in many ways. It has already proven.

.. Should I tel you again, after telling you for the last 1-1/2 years that she signs, and I sign, or are you going to ignore that again?...

IT MUST BE HEARING beacause you said so . Scoffs! You couldnt handle to deal with d/Deaf children in a way that is so outrageous for you to conform a child.

...Yes, she can hear... isn't that wonderful? She would have been a wonderful girl had she stayed deaf, now she's a wonderful girl hearing...

Guess what d/Deaf people out there are very successful without your help after all they used American Sign Language. You dont want to hear it and are willing to spend more time and money to manipulate on d/Deaf children that is already damaged from the start.

In fact, there are many deaf people successful without ASL as well. I have heared it, I have acknoledged it (again for the last 1½ years).

So Sweetmind. When are you going to stop repeating yourself and stop making me repeating myself explaining you where you are making the same wrong assumptions.