Why CI is bad for kids under 6 yrs.

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jillio said:
I agree. It is a parent's right to decide. But unless the parents have been given all relevent inforamtion, and are understanding of the fact that speech skills are not in any way equal to literacy skills, then they need to be provided that information.
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Now you are adding another factor, literacy, to the equation.
 
shel90 said:
What do u mean? I need to make sure I am reading u right so can u clarify your question?
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Every time I mention developing speech and language skills, your response is that I am placing them above and/or at the expense of a child's education. I am not, for to me they are two separate and distinct issues.

I agree with the importantce of education and we made the decision to send our children to our local school district because it is where they would recieve the best education in our area given our circumstances. We chose not to send them to our local Catholic school (a decision that my mother-in-law and my mother still remindus of to this day) for the same reason and the very same reason why we did not send our daughter who is deaf to the Deaf school in our area.

So my question to you is simply if it is your position that developing a person's oral speech and language skills is of absolutely no value for my reading of your comments leads me to believe that you place no value or no significant value on a child developing those skills at all.
Rick
 
rick48 said:
Sorry, but if you can't back up your statements with a credible source then they have no merit.
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And, likewise with you, rick48, likewise with you. To date, I have seen nothing to back up your claim of all of these amazing oral successes. Yet I have posted numerous times the stats and the research to back up my claims. If you have support for your claims, let's see it.
 
shel90 said:
Many deaf children who learned ASL first were able to develop speech skills. I have many deaf friends who were educated in the Deaf schools who can switch from ASL and spoken language easily. One of them is dating a hearing guy who knows no sign language.
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Nods, I know several deaf people from several deaf families. I knew a dad, brother and sister who are deaf. Mom is hearing. I've heard the dad speak a few times and both of his kids can speak much better than he can.

I also knew two deaf preschoolers from a deaf family. Neither of their parents could speak but both kids had good speech.
 
rick48 said:
Every time I mention developing speech and language skills, your response is that I am placing them above and/or at the expense of a child's education. I am not, for to me they are two separate and distinct issues.

I agree with the importantce of education and we made the decision to send our children to our local school district because it is where they would recieve the best education in our area given our circumstances. We chose not to send them to our local Catholic school (a decision that my mother-in-law and my mother still remindus of to this day) for the same reason and the very same reason why we did not send our daughter who is deaf to the Deaf school in our area.

So my question to you is simply if it is your position that developing a person's oral speech and language skills is of absolutely no value for my reading of your comments leads me to believe that you place no value or no significant value on a child developing those skills at all.
Rick
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Yes, I see the value of having oral skills so if an older student shows interest in trying again, I refer them to speech classes. We never deny any kids any opportunities. We just recognize when kids arent showing any signs of developing any oral skills, we make that recommendation to the parents and it is up to them to change their IEPs. Most of the time that is recognized when they are around 5 years old after being exposed to oral language for 5 years.

I just dont see how it is benefical to those students to be in an environment where they are constantly missing out on critical information.

As I have always stated, education and language development comes first. That is my belief.
 
rick48 said:
No, that is your subjective and biased interpretation. It is also not a fair interpretation of what I wrote. For example, there are a growing number of deaf parents choosing the cochlear implant for thier children, thus are you saying that decision is based upon speech and oral skills taking precedence over anything else? Also, since the decision to give your child a cochlear implant has nothing to do with raising your child to be culturally deaf, your comments are narrow and limited in scope.

Is it your position that oral speech and language skills are of absolutely no value whatsoever?
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Link, please.

The problem is when the oral speech and language skills take precedence over anything else (meaning sign language is forbidden), the kids is not going to understand everything (even with CI) and their education is going to suffer. ASL is not broken but the hearing people do act like if ASL is broken.
 
jillio said:
And, likewise with you, rick48, likewise with you. To date, I have seen nothing to back up your claim of all of these amazing oral successes. Yet I have posted numerous times the stats and the research to back up my claims. If you have support for your claims, let's see it.
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You have? Odd for it seems that others besides myself are always asking you to provide your sources.
 
shel90 said:
Yes, I see the value of having oral skills so if an older student shows interest in trying again, I refer them to speech classes. We never deny any kids any opportunities. We just recognize when kids arent showing any signs of developing any oral skills, we make that recommendation to the parents and it is up to them to change their IEPs. Most of the time that is recognized when they are around 5 years old after being exposed to oral language for 5 years.

I just dont see how it is benefical to those students to be in an environment where they are constantly missing out on critical information.

As I have always stated, education and language development comes first. That is my belief.
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You do realize that a child who is above the age of 10 years old and has not had an oral background and then decides he/she wants to be oral it is too late, whereas my children can stop using their voice and immerse themselves in the deaf culture.
 
rick48 said:
You have? Odd for it seems that others besides myself are always asking you to provide your sources.
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Souces have been provided. You fail to recognize that. Not the same thing. Anytime I cite a particualr study or reference a particular author, I cite my source. Where are yours?
 
jackiesolorzano said:
You do realize that a child who is above the age of 10 years old and has not had an oral background and then decides he/she wants to be oral it is too late, whereas my children can stop using their voice and immerse themselves in the deaf culture.
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Sources, please, on the bolded comment.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
You do realize that a child who is above the age of 10 years old and has not had an oral background and then decides he/she wants to be oral it is too late, whereas my children can stop using their voice and immerse themselves in the deaf culture.
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Too late? Then my friends were lying to me that they learned oral skills in middle school because they finally understood the purpose and importance of it. They are communicating with hearing people just fine.
 
shel90 said:
Too late? Then my friends were lying to me that they learned oral skills in middle school because they finally understood the purpose and importance of it. They are communicating with hearing people just fine.
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I agree. A friend of mine has a deaf voice. She would over enunciate words, basically because she did not have a lot of speech therapy growing up. When she got her CI, she was able to hear herself better and realized how different she spoke. She had AVT for the first year that she had her CI, so it helped her to speak better. She was 27 years old...so it IS possible for someone to have better oral skills. So, Shel - you're right, it's not "TOO" late, it all has to do with training. Jackie - it may take just a little bit longer than a child learning how to speak, but it is possible for a deaf adult to be able to speak.
 
LadySekhmet said:
I agree. A friend of mine has a deaf voice. She would over enunciate words, basically because she did not have a lot of speech therapy growing up. When she got her CI, she was able to hear herself better and realized how different she spoke. She had AVT for the first year that she had her CI, so it helped her to speak better. She was 27 years old...so it IS possible for someone to have better oral skills. So, Shel - you're right, it's not "TOO" late, it all has to do with training. Jackie - it may take just a little bit longer than a child learning how to speak, but it is possible for a deaf adult to be able to speak.
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I agree with you if a person got an implant later on life yes, they could develop oral skills and it would take longer.
I was talking about a person that did not have implants. I know out here they will not implant a child after 6 I think until they are an adult. Yes, if they have implant it can be done with a lot help and support.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
I agree with you if a person got an implant later on life yes, they could develop oral skills and it would take longer.
I was talking about a person that did not have implants. I know out here they will not implant a child after 6 I think until they are an adult. Yes, if they have implant it can be done with a lot help and support.
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My deaf friends have no implants. :dunno:
 
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