Why Are Men Dominating the Debate About Birth Control for Women?

[Banjo]

Back in the old, old days, having sex before marriage, even living with someone without the benefit of marriage was "a shameful" thing....People shunned you, talked about you, etc. Even if a woman got raped, then people assumed it was her fault! And called her a slut, even a whore.

My mother got married at 14 and a half, (she was pregnant). And subsequently had 6 children by the age of 20-21.....My father left her for another woman, leaving her to support all of us on a waitress job, and she worked 2 or 3 jobs. Back in those days, women did not get court ordered child support.

The "woman" was supposed to take care of the children, regardless! The man?...just go about his merry way, even rape back in those days if he wished and nothing would be done about it, even domestic physical abuse.

Have we women suffered enough? I believe we have....

6 children by the age of 21?

 

[rockin'robin]

6 children by the age of 21?

Yes. She lost 2 of them, for reasons I'm not sure of. I have 2 brothers and 4 sisters (including myself). Life in the backwoods was very hard, no car, just a horse and buggy and the nearest doctor/hospital was 20 miles away. So we never went to the doctor.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Yes. She lost 2 of them, for reasons I'm not sure of. I have 2 brothers and 4 sisters (including myself). Life in the backwoods was very hard, no car, just a horse and buggy and the nearest doctor/hospital was 20 miles away. So we never went to the doctor.

You just reminded me of two books I bought at a living village in Arkansas, titled "Mountain Mama" and "No Lace for Cricket". True stories of a single mother living in the Ozarks at the turn of the century.

Those books perfectly illustrated the hardships of women like your mother. I have to say I bow down to women like the ones in those books and to women like your mother.

 

[deafskeptic]

Back in the old, old days, having sex before marriage, even living with someone without the benefit of marriage was "a shameful" thing....People shunned you, talked about you, etc. Even if a woman got raped, then people assumed it was her fault! And called her a slut, even a whore.

My mother got married at 14 and a half, (she was pregnant). And subsequently had 6 children by the age of 20-21.....My father left her for another woman, leaving her to support all of us on a waitress job, and she worked 2 or 3 jobs. Back in those days, women did not get court ordered child support.

The "woman" was supposed to take care of the children, regardless! The man?...just go about his merry way, even rape back in those days if he wished and nothing would be done about it, even domestic physical abuse.

Have we women suffered enough? I believe we have....

One of my grandmothers got married at age 13.

 

[deafskeptic]

One of my grandmothers got married at age 13.

She became a mother shortly after she turned 14.

 

[rolling7]

"If you were to go back in time(i.e. 50s/60s) you would find a lot less kids having sex as there was not much contraceptives avaliable. Also there were far fewer kids having kids." (Rolling)

Extracts - "Silent " Sexual Revolution Began In The 1940's and '50s (Journey)

"So your link does nothing to change my mind." (Rolling)

"They were just as common back then as they are today. Only it was kept as a secret back then." (Banjo)

In response to Banjo, "Correct you are. But there was no apathy back then." (Rolling)

Ok is it just me who is now confused? Rolling, you believed kids were not having much sex back in the 40's and 50's, the report I gave you did not change your mind but yet you say Banjo is correct?

What I said was that Banjo was correct that it was kept secret back then. That was dues to shame and I also said that kept the numbers down.
Today there is apathy and everyone knows everyone is having sex even in grade school. Kids back then did have sex but got shamed for it whereas today people don't give this a second of thought.

 

[Banjo]

What I said was that Banjo was correct that it was kept secret back then. That was dues to shame and I also said that kept the numbers down.
Today there is apathy and everyone knows everyone is having sex even in grade school. Kids back then did have sex but got shamed for it whereas today people don't give this a second of thought.

It didn't keep the numbers down. You just didn't hear about them.

 

[rolling7]

Oh, and before this comment gets forgotten, I just want to say what an outrageous and chauvinist viewpoint.

Are you one of those people that post the "get back in the kitchen" comments on YouTube videos?

Good grief.

No, I have never had anything to do with YouTube. I do support a relationship that is 100/100%, in other words both put their every best equally into the relationship. I do not have chauvinist veiwpoints and should you make that statement to my ex-wife she would laugh in your face.

I still know that young girls are being pressured to have sex at a very earlier age in today's world as oppose to back then. So if young men were to understand that there is a price to pay for pressuring an/or corrosion of morals for sex from girls there would be less instancies of sexual activities.
It all starts with the boys and they are the ones whom need educating and a proper upbring. Unfortunatly, with all the apathy in todays society I don't see that happening on a necessary large scale.

 

[Banjo]

I still know that young girls are being pressured to have sex at a very earlier age in today's world as oppose to back then. So if young men were to understand that there is a price to pay for pressuring an/or corrosion of morals for sex from girls there would be less instancies of sexual activities.

A lot of young women were forced to get married while they were quite young. 11, 12, 13, 14, etc.

 

[DeafCaroline]

It didn't keep the numbers down. You just didn't hear about them.

And furthermore, it was precisely BECAUSE of shame, that rape, incest and out of wedlock pregnancies went unreported for so long.

Shame is not a good tactic to control any kind of behaviour because it can also hide the same kind of behaviour.

 

[Banjo]

And furthermore, it was precisely BECAUSE of shame, that rape, incest and out of wedlock pregnancies went unreported for so long.

Shame is not a good tactic to control any kind of behaviour because it can also hide the same kind of behaviour.

Exactly. People are kidding themselves into thinking that shaming and disgracing the people for their actions is the proper thing to do.

 

[rolling7]

Wow... this is pretty bad... how do you not see how bad this is?

You do realize there has never been taboo, shame, and disgrace for men in regards to sex at all? (in America)

How do you feel about that?

Please... please don't tell me that's what Mother Nature intended...... I will just come apart.

I would probably get banned for posting names of MALE hollywood stars that have been caught in a sexual situation with girls under the age of consent, so I'll have to work around that by not posting names.

Several men have been caught and they are still very popular on TV/movies/music because in todays world it is expected and excused.
Taboo, shame and disgrace has nothing to do with Mother Nature, they are manmade products of emotions. So it is up to the population to decide. Once we start showing apathy toward a few, then more and more men decide they can get away with having sex with whomever they please.
If the population would come down hard on these men doing all these harmful activities, then other men will think twice. In my days just knowing that the whole world would brings it wrath upon his head gave a young man a lot of pause to think about his action. In today's times there is so much apathy these young men don't even give a second of thought to the consequences of their actions. Like I said, it is up to the population to decide how to treat these situations of sexual activities. In my opinion these should be very special and exclusive. And I live this way. Whereas, many people think as I do but don't live it.

 

[rolling7]

And furthermore, it was precisely BECAUSE of shame, that rape, incest and out of wedlock pregnancies went unreported for so long.

Shame is not a good tactic to control any kind of behaviour because it can also hide the same kind of behaviour.

You TOTALLY miss the point. The shame you speak of is on the female and I am totally against that. This shame does cover the reporting and I really wish it would go away.

The point you and Banjo totally miss is the shame put on the male, which is where it should be. Back in the days there was a lot of shame on the male, whereas, today there is little. My point is if we were to turn up the heat of shame on the MALE it would benefit us all.

 

[rolling7]

A lot of young women were forced to get married while they were quite young. 11, 12, 13, 14, etc.

Life expectances were much shorter back in the days, whereas, today's times people are expected to live until 80-100. So there is no comparision and girls today are not expected to marry.

 

[rolling7]

Exactly. People are kidding themselves into thinking that shaming and disgracing the people for their actions is the proper thing to do.

You either have morals or you don't.....there is no grey area.
As the matter of fact, people thinking there are grey areas has brought down the morals of America to an all time low.

 

[Journey]

Life expectances were much shorter back in the days, whereas, today's times people are expected to live until 80-100. So there is no comparision and girls today are not expected to marry.

I disagree, what has changed the idea of early marriage or girls being married at all is not life expectancy but empowering women - to vote, to have the ability to live independently, to have control over their own health and well-being and to say 'no'.

 

[Banjo]

You either have morals or you don't.....there is no grey area.

As the matter of fact, people thinking there are grey areas has brought down the morals of America to an all time low.

Nothing is black and white.

 

[rolling7]

I disagree, what has changed the idea of early marriage or girls being married at all is not life expectancy but empowering women - to vote, to have the ability to live independently, to have control over their own health and well-being and to say 'no'.

So sorry, I shoulod have mention I was only speaking of America and not worldwide.

 

[TWA]

No, I have never had anything to do with YouTube. I do support a relationship that is 100/100%, in other words both put their every best equally into the relationship. I do not have chauvinist veiwpoints and should you make that statement to my ex-wife she would laugh in your face.

I still know that young girls are being pressured to have sex at a very earlier age in today's world as oppose to back then. So if young men were to understand that there is a price to pay for pressuring an/or corrosion of morals for sex from girls there would be less instancies of sexual activities.
It all starts with the boys and they are the ones whom need educating and a proper upbring. Unfortunatly, with all the apathy in todays society I don't see that happening on a necessary large scale.

Not sure if you're backtracking here or if you just made a colossal faux pas in your previous post, but now I see what you are saying. I'll take you at your word on this.

While it would be a nice thing if men and boys had more of a healthy fear and awareness of the consequences when they sexually coerce and harass women (and other men), intimidation seems to be one of the worst forms of prevention, not just with sexual activity, but ANYTHING. (Just look at the situation with Iran.)

No, the answer still is, and always will be, educating and teaching our children respect for one another, and especially for their selves. We cannot pretend we live in a rosey world where it's possible to supress sexual desire (nor should we want to). Sex and sexual disrespect is all around us, from rap songs and movies to beauty pageants and workplaces. We're not going to ever get around that. We can only help to teach our children to be better than ourselves. Sadly, I think we have already failed.

 

[Beowulf]

You either have morals or you don't.....there is no grey area.
As the matter of fact, people thinking there are grey areas has brought down the morals of America to an all time low.

If the grey area brought us into the middle, the all-time low isn't so bad.