Cloggy
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So... "she isn't deaf" or "she can't hear"?Liebling:-))) said:Neecy lost her hearing to deaf when she was 9 years old.
So... "she isn't deaf" or "she can't hear"?Liebling:-))) said:Neecy lost her hearing to deaf when she was 9 years old.
neecy said:your point? I can't offer an opinion or ask for clarification of posts already made here because I lost my hearing when I was 9?
Cloggy said:NO no no.
I went through your articles and could not find a place where it said that this included CI-children.
You provided 3 links, then put a quote under it as if it comes from any of those links, but I cannot find it. I'll keep on trying but you cannot just give up because you can't answer the question.
Show me....... OK found it.. still looking for CI....
Eighty to ninety per cent of children born deaf are born to hearing parents and it is usually the parents who decide whether or not to implant their child. Often these parents have had no exposure to deafness, let alone to Deaf or hearing-impaired people.
"While dramatic changes are never guaranteed, they are always hoped for. How will the child and the parents react to average or below average audiological outcome or one that does not translate into accelerated educational or psychosocial progress? Will they feel like a failure or that they have wasted the family's finances, time, and emotional resources? Will they drive themselves too hard during the long postsurgical rehabilitation phase, neglecting other aspects of the child's or the family's psychosocial development?"
http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/cochlear/default.htm(AAD) believes that the advertising and publicity used to sell CIs reinforces this 'deficit' model of deafness and misleads people into believing that it is a 'miracle cure'.
Medical professions, who are almost always uneducated about other options for Deaf children, often tell parents to have their child receive cochlear implants so the child will be more "normal." Since the vast majority of Deaf children are born to hearing parents, they are also uneducated about the options for their Deaf child. They trust the medical professions to tell them what to do.The doctors want to "fix" Deaf people by inserting the cochlear implants. The main purpose of the implant is to move the child out of a linguistic and cultural minority and into the majority culture.
In fact, after ten years of experimentation with the implants with over a thousand children, not one single case has been reported of a child acquiring oral language with the implant (Lane, 1996:395). Implanted children have trouble learning English and ASL both.
Have a look hereCheri said:*Sign* Never mind it's like talking to a wall.
In the adult population, the prevalence of hearing impairment is greater for those who are not high school graduates (i.e., have less than 12 years' education) than for high school graduates (Table 7).
Still no mentioning of Ci-kids in the study.Cheri said:You think those articles don't know that hearing parents implanted their deaf children? Oh come on. .......
How can you believe this dribble when I have explained all over that my child learned speech, "acquiring oral language with the implant ". The quote was wrong when he wrote it (1996) and is getting more and more rediculous.In fact, after ten years of experimentation with the implants with over a thousand children, not one single case has been reported of a child acquiring oral language with the implant (Lane, 1996:395). Implanted children have trouble learning English and ASL both.
Which article? I haven't seen anything negative about CI. I'm sensitive because you say that deaf children of hearing parents do worse that deaf of deaf parents. You assume CI-kids are included, I say that they are not. (The go to other schools.....)Cheri said:Cloggy,
I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI.
Where have I done this????... come on Cheri, you cannot make a statement like that and not back it up. I have never discussed "negatives about deafness" since I focus on "success of my daughters CI"but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness,
What are you talking about????.... That's another topic. I have not even been in that discussion....Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.
But, Cochlear implants have not yet prove that the culture of Deaf people can be taken away from them, because now that more hearing parents are implanting their children. Pretty soon in the nearest future, the whole Deaf Culture will be wiped out.
ButterflyGirl said:Then you are really really an ignorant person I have ever seen. Why are you assuming that hearing parents of deaf children are lying? You were NEVER in my parents' shoes when they raised me. Look at me now. I survived and I am happy, thanks to my hearing parents.
Cheri said:Cloggy,
I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI, but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness, Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.
Exactly very much so !!!
Originally Posted by ButterflyGirl
Then you are really really an ignorant person I have ever seen. Why are you assuming that hearing parents of deaf children are lying? You were NEVER in my parents' shoes when they raised me. Look at me now. I survived and I am happy, thanks to my hearing parents.
It just shows how well you read posts.... Cheri is assuming that... go bite her!! Have a look here. And since she only believes stuff that is backed up by a link, this must be true, no matter what anyone says on the messageboard.CutePommie said:Well said !!!! same goes for me I thanks for my hearing parents too they did wonderful to brought me up they dont use the sign languages because the LEA was not allow parents to use signs It was long time ago.. so I am happy that I have good hearing parents ... .. Damn Cloggy eh ... he just wont accept it as to be it !!!!
I have no reason to doubt the veracity of studies Lane conducted with this (admittedly) small sample size of 1,000 CI'ers. The results of the study as reported by Lane, certainly are not surprising. Back then, and not surprisingly so, the CI regimen did not work for the vast majority of DHH children, resulting in significant language development issues.Cloggy said:VERY interesting the quote of Harlan Lane:
How can you believe this dribble when I have explained all over that my child learned speech, "acquiring oral language with the implant ". The quote was wrong when he wrote it (1996) and is getting more and more rediculous.
Even in 1996 there were children that allready aquired language.Eyeth said:I have no reason to doubt the veracity of studies Lane conducted with this (admittedly) small sample size of 1,000 CI'ers. The results of the study as reported by Lane, certainly are not surprising. Back then, and not surprisingly so, the CI regimen did not work for the vast majority of DHH children, resulting in significant language development issues.
It would be nice if Lane could update his research, expand the scope of his studies, and perhaps, write another book in a similar vein to his earlier and pioneering works. It will be interesting to see any differences, observations, and deviations Lane will come up in describing the current state of Deafness and implications for Deaf Culture in the 21st century and beyond.
First of all, there's nothing "Again" about your statement. it's a completely new statement.TrippLA said:Again, CI does not help children to voice, listen and talk itself at all time unless anyone who get implant when 1 or 2 years old so it will be successful for some children, not all children do.
He did post about it in one of the threads.Cloggy said:First of all, there's nothing "Again" about your statement. it's a completely new statement.
Well, I missed that. It's definitely not in the last 15 posts he made.ButterflyGirl said:He did post about it in one of the threads.
When I posted Reasons Against CI, that was listed first because I didn't want to be misunderstood. It hurts when people assume that a parent's choice of CI for their child is largely selfishly motivated and that the child is not accepted somehow. Those who feel this way, have they ever been parents?Originally Posted by Cloggy
...the reaction in many messageboards will be as if choosing CI means you don't love your daughter "as she is". I always felt as if I had to justify myself towards deaf people that use that argument...
Some of us including me who have spoke out our opinions are parents.SarahsDad said:When I posted Reasons Against CI, that was listed first because I didn't want to be misunderstood. It hurts when people assume that a parent's choice of CI for their child is largely selfishly motivated and that the child is not accepted somehow. Those who feel this way, have they ever been parents?
You are right.SarahsDad said:Cloggy,
Thanks so much. Your reply is important to me since you have been in our exact situation, desperate to make the right choice for your child..............
The CI, no CI debate, especially with regard to children is such a heated topic. When I see this, it makes me think, why is there so much disagreement?
I think maybe:
- huge knowledge gaps exist on all sides of the debate, both in personal experience, and factual knowledge.
- what's at stake is extremely important.
- fear.
- win/loose mentality, I'm right, you're wrong, and let me show you why.
- fefensiveness making it hard to keep an open mind.
- misrepresented facts, either accidentally or on purpose. Real facts and real truth are hard to come by. "There is a link to it on the internet, so it must be true!".
- there is no one correct answer for all situations. A Deaf family raising a Deaf child is not the same as a hearing family raising a Deaf child where no one in the family signs, and only 20%(?) of the parents will become ASL literate.
Thanks,
SarahsDad
And it is appreciated. Most of the people are parents.ButterflyGirl said:Some of us including me who have spoke out our opinions are parents.