Who is God?

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(Notice that I said "theories", plural; even the evolutionists can't agree on their theories, and their theories keep changing.)

That shows that you have NO idea what the evolution is. There are MANY theories describing evolution itself. They're arguing over *mechanisms* of evolution. We have several theories on that but NONE OF THEM DISPUTE EVOLUTION!

Creationists try to take advantage of people's ignorance by saying that scientists still question evolution when in fact, they don't. Scientists have complained about creationists misrepresenting them.
 
That shows that you have NO idea what the evolution is. There are MANY theories describing evolution itself. They're arguing over *mechanisms* of evolution. We have several theories on that but NONE OF THEM DISPUTE EVOLUTION!

Creationists try to take advantage of people's ignorance by saying that scientists still question evolution when in fact, they don't. Scientists have complained about creationists misrepresenting them.

I take it you are follower of Darwin's theroy?
 
I take it you are follower of Darwin's theroy?

Of course, natural selection is the one of the best explanations for the evolution. The other theory called genetic drift is also excellent. They are complementary to each other.
 
I think need to get back into topic "who God is"., its getting off topics here. smile
 
In Genesis, where God created all living things, plant and animal, after their own kind, fully developed. He created Adam and Eve as fully developed man and woman. He did all that in six days. There is no place for the stages of development or eras of time of evolution during those six days.

I showed you some of my references. Now, you show me some of your references. That's fair.

I have no reference (unless you mean Genesis). I use my eyes and brains and I've been in plenty of debates with Christians, Muslims, and Atheists. The Jews always seem to be reserved though. Hmm. :<

But let's use Genesis! The issue is that you read the entire Bible literally, word for word. You are effectively missing the key points or ideas of the Genesis account. You are ignoring the idea of time that is repeatedly said in Genesis. You are missing the idea of the progress in Genesis. Has it ever occurred to you that it may be "six days" to God but millions of years to you? Certainly you are an extreme fraction of the entire lifespan of the universe. Everyone knows it is impossible to create something, even for us, so massive (the universe) in six days. Science does not go along with this. Instead it could be six eras. The universe is constantly expanding and since the beginning, it has been six eras so far.

250,000,000
500,000,000
1,000,000,000
2,000,000,000
4,000,000,000
8,000,000,000
= 15,750,000,000 years.

15,750,000,000 years which is coincidently right around the mark of scientific estimates of how old this universe is (if you do not understand why I did the calculations, refer to the Hubble Law). Yet Creationists (Christians like yourself) believe the Earth is a few thousand years old. :<

God has given you a brain. Use all your senses and reason with them. Instead of dismissing science based on an emotional response or lack of knowledge, accept science for it has helped introduce a new era of knowledge in the light of God's mastery of creation. Note that I never dismissed the fact God created the universe! When you create something, it takes time to build such a creation. For you, you can compile a drawing and be finished with it in a day. For God, it took Him six days to create the universe. The fact is that creation also takes part with evolution. For you to deny evolution is simply removing logic from reason.

Now, let us reason with Genesis!

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

:::Creation is evolution.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

:::Movement determines evolution.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

:::The progress of light coming onto Earth.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

:::Another form of progress.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

:::Suddenly water came. Another form of progression. Evolution in the works.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

:::God made the firmament, which takes time and evolution into account.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

:::Finally, land became habitable - another form of evolution.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

:::And why do you think grass came forward? Evolution.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

:::Came the development (which requires time and therefore evolution) of seasons!

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

:::As hard as it is to understand this verse, it still shows movement of light and the stars.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

:::Wow, I wonder how animals came along! Evolution from water (life)!

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

:::A hint! Multiplied! Evolution requires passing down genes and what do you think multiplying does?

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

:::Finally, after a long time of time and progress, man finally appeared. And certainly God did create man since evolution was also His creation!

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

:::Plenty of hints here.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

:::Almost every verse shows a sign of continuous growth and multiplication.

This is what the evolution theory pertains to. I used to believe that the evolution theory was wrong but simple logic proves it plausible. There are tons of evidence out there that supports the evolution theory but far too many creationists try to poke holes into the theory. That is good though! It only makes the theory stronger as time goes by.

Perhaps this should help you understand my point.

And a piece of wisdom for you:

Science should not denounce but affirm God's creation.

Take care.
 
That shows that you have NO idea what the evolution is. There are MANY theories describing evolution itself. They're arguing over *mechanisms* of evolution. We have several theories on that but NONE OF THEM DISPUTE EVOLUTION!

Creationists try to take advantage of people's ignorance by saying that scientists still question evolution when in fact, they don't. Scientists have complained about creationists misrepresenting them.

QFT.
 
Waah, waah, poor scientists!

Once again, you don't get it, obviously. Their complaints are 100% valid.

Supposedly, an atheist says, "Theologians like Reba and CS Lewis argue over the Bible. It proves that the Bible is not true!"

Would you think that is so stupid? That's exactly what creationists are doing.
 
...But let's use Genesis! The issue is that you read the entire Bible literally, word for word. You are effectively missing the key points or ideas of the Genesis account. You are ignoring the idea of time that is repeatedly said in Genesis. You are missing the idea of the progress in Genesis. Has it ever occurred to you that it may be "six days" to God but millions of years to you?
Has it every occurred to you that when God said "six days", He meant "six days"?

Certainly you are an extreme fraction of the entire lifespan of the universe. Everyone knows it is impossible to create something, even for us, so massive (the universe) in six days.
Ummm, it's impossible for anyone or thing other than God to create a universe, period, regardless of how much time is factored in. Anyone (that is, God) who has the power to create a universe can do it in whatever timespan He deems best. He chose six days.

Science does not go along with this.
Too bad. Someday science will catch up.

Instead it could be six eras. The universe is constantly expanding and since the beginning, it has been six eras so far.
Ah, "it could be six eras". "Could be" and "is" aren't the same thing.

15,750,000,000 years which is coincidently right around the mark of scientific estimates of how old this universe is (if you do not understand why I did the calculations, refer to the Hubble Law).
Coincidental indeed.

So, what was happening before that time?

Yet Creationists (Christians like yourself) believe the Earth is a few thousand years old. :<
Yeah.

God has given you a brain. Use all your senses and reason with them. Instead of dismissing science based on an emotional response or lack of knowledge, accept science for it has helped introduce a new era of knowledge in the light of God's mastery of creation.
"Must accept science, must accept science, must accept science . . ."
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

No thanks. :D

You can believe that I am "dismissing science based on an emotional response" if that suits your ego and need for superiority. I don't want to deprive you of your pleasure.

Note that I never dismissed the fact God created the universe! When you create something, it takes time to build such a creation.
For God it took only six days, yes.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

:::Creation is evolution.
God created something out of nothing, instantaneously. Where's the evolution in that?

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

:::Movement determines evolution.
How so?

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

:::The progress of light coming onto Earth.
It wasn't progressive; it was instantaneous.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

:::Another form of progress.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
All the events were instantaneous, without gradual changes. God created each layer perfectly the first time. No trial and error, no corrections. Nothing needed improvement. Each layer that God created was "good".

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

:::Suddenly water came. Another form of progression. Evolution in the works.
Part of the definition of evolution is gradual change. Where's the gradual change?

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

:::God made the firmament, which takes time and evolution into account.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Again, no gradual change.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

:::Finally, land became habitable - another form of evolution.
Again, no gradual change.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
It was good. No need for improvement.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

:::And why do you think grass came forward? Evolution.
God put the grass there as grass; it didn't development from some other material. God put the individual herbs and trees there, bearing seeds and fruit of their own species, not any intermediate species. They were complete, mature, ready to eat.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
It was good--perfect.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

:::Came the development (which requires time and therefore evolution) of seasons!
God spoke them into existence immediately; no gradual changes or long times involved.

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

:::As hard as it is to understand this verse, it still shows movement of light and the stars.
God assigned the celestial lights their places and orbits; they weren't gradually developed.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Explaining their purpose.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

:::Wow, I wonder how animals came along! Evolution from water (life)!
They were all created in one same day, the sea creatures in the sea, the birds in the air, and the land animals on the land; one group didn't move from one environment to another. The sea creatures stayed in the sea, the birds stayed in the air, and the land animals stayed on the land. No creatures changed from one group to another.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Each creature was after its own kind (species). One species didn't become another.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

:::A hint! Multiplied! Evolution requires passing down genes and what do you think multiplying does?
Evolution requires passing down genes but passing down genes does not require evolution. People have been passing down genes for thousands of years but they're still people. There's no evolution happening in that process. No new species popping up.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Again, each species after its own kind.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

:::Finally, after a long time of time and progress, man finally appeared. And certainly God did create man since evolution was also His creation!
Man was created totally separate from the animals. He was created in God's image. He was created in a manner different from the animals. Man was not the result of "a long time of time and progress", and he didn't just "appear".

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

:::Plenty of hints here.
Really? Where?

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

:::Almost every verse shows a sign of continuous growth and multiplication.
No, each verse shows specific creation acts; there's no "growth" or multiplication during the six days. The first generation of all living things are established during the six days. The multiplying happens in the subsequent generations.

Take care.
:ty:
 
Once again, you don't get it, obviously. Their complaints are 100% valid.

Supposedly, an atheist says, "Theologians like Reba and CS Lewis argue over the Bible. It proves that the Bible is not true!"

Would you think that is so stupid? That's exactly what creationists are doing.

Please read my thread #1 you not read it. Do not bashing!
 
Has it every occurred to you that when God said "six days", He meant "six days"?

If the entire Bible were to be read literally, it would indeed be an outrageous book.

Ummm, it's impossible for anyone or thing other than God to create a universe, period, regardless of how much time is factored in. Anyone (that is, God) who has the power to create a universe can do it in whatever timespan He deems best. He chose six days.

I never denied that it was possible for God to create the universe. Read the Genesis account figuratively. The point here is that it took six days and that is translated in time. Evolution needs time to gradually evolve. This is in perfect accordance to God's original words. At least try to understand this.

Too bad. Someday science will catch up.

That's funny. I'm still waiting for Creation Scientists disproving the theory of evolution.

Ah, "it could be six eras". "Could be" and "is" aren't the same thing.

Understand that I attempt to bring the two worlds together, not divide them. So everything is possible. You on the other hand are dismissing science. It's funny considering you're on the computer right now considering it is science that brought you this wonderful device. Why not be a caveman? ;)

Coincidental indeed.

You have no idea how many times I've said "coincidental" when it comes to religion. It goes both ways.


Prove it is six thousand years old.

For God it took only six days, yes.

And I never denied that.

God created something out of nothing, instantaneously. Where's the evolution in that?
It wasn't progressive; it was instantaneous.
All the events were instantaneous, without gradual changes.
Again, no gradual change.
Again, no gradual change.
God spoke them into existence immediately; no gradual changes or long times involved.

Prove with logic, reasoning, and knowledge that it was instantaneous.

My proof that it took time rather than instantaneously is referred to science - when you say, "Turn on the light!" and someone flips the switch, the lights turns on. Is this instantaneous? No, it isn't. It took time, even if milliseconds, to allow the electricity to travel.

God created each layer perfectly the first time. No trial and error, no corrections. Nothing needed improvement. Each layer that God created was "good".
It was good. No need for improvement.
It was good--perfect.

And I never denied that it was perfect.

Let me introduce you to philosophy. When the world looks at a human being, they say, "It is imperfect!" Yet when the world looks at the universe, they say, "It is perfect!" While evolution itself may go through "trial and error" (which is not entirely true), the evolution process itself is perfect.

Part of the definition of evolution is gradual change. Where's the gradual change?

From void and inhabitable to Earthly and livable. This is the change - a progression over time (in six days on God's terms).

God put the grass there as grass; it didn't development from some other material. God put the individual herbs and trees there, bearing seeds and fruit of their own species, not any intermediate species. They were complete, mature, ready to eat.

I would agree with you if you read it literally. Unfortunately, it just doesn't happen like that when it comes to science. There's a reason why all living things have DNA. Perhaps you need some Biology 101.


God assigned the celestial lights their places and orbits; they weren't gradually developed.

Then explain how the Big Bang Theory came through? Then explain how the Hubble Law came through? You're showing me quite a lot of ignorance in science. God encouraged faith with reason. You're just not doing that.

They were all created in one same day, the sea creatures in the sea, the birds in the air, and the land animals on the land; one group didn't move from one environment to another. The sea creatures stayed in the sea, the birds stayed in the air, and the land animals stayed on the land. No creatures changed from one group to another.

That is what you think. To support my position and to make it very clear, I will use the Qur'an:

Allah has created from water every living creature: of them there are some that creep upon their bellies, some that walk on two legs, and yet, some that walk on four; Allah creates what He pleases; surely Allah has power over everything. (24:45)

Have not the unbelievers ever considered that the skies and the earth were once one mass, then We split them asunder? And We have created every living thing from water. Will they still not believe? (21:30)

Those two verses clearly define Hubble's Law and the very fact that all living things came from water? This goes into perfect accordance with science. Will you still not believe? ;)

Each creature was after its own kind (species). One species didn't become another.
Again, each species after its own kind.

But they certainly came from water. ;)

Evolution requires passing down genes but passing down genes does not require evolution. People have been passing down genes for thousands of years but they're still people. There's no evolution happening in that process. No new species popping up.

You must not be paying attention to the news. New species are being found every single day. Passing down genes will have mutations with them. That alone is evolution as well! People are still people, certainly, but that does not disprove evolution itself. I never said that human beings came from apes either. ;)

Man was created totally separate from the animals. He was created in God's image. He was created in a manner different from the animals. Man was not the result of "a long time of time and progress", and he didn't just "appear".

So, Man did not just appear? So you agree it was not instantaneous? ;)


Really? Where?

You must not understand at this point. ;)


No, each verse shows specific creation acts; there's no "growth" or multiplication during the six days. The first generation of all living things are established during the six days. The multiplying happens in the subsequent generations.

Nonetheless, they are still progress. Keyword: progress. If you deny that, then you're delusional.

:ty:
 
It ok, I dont want to have afterlife but I can have a choice to say no to heaven ppl that I dont want to go there and try to cause myself to death again in second life?

There's no second chance at life, Death is the end of life. You don't have a choice, God decide your fate, you can't decide your own fate. Your body will be asleep in the grave until judgment day.

On judgment day it is then we will be sentenced to our eternal resting place. Every one of us will face God (Jesus) on judgment day even the Christians. Saved spirits go directly to be with the Lord, but the unsaved are sent to this place of torment (Hell) to await their final judgment. ;)
 
devil is washbrain on you! because devil hate you see truth to Jesus Christ the Saviour. devil wanted won people's soul! be carefully your word.

Don't say such a thing like that, You have to understand there's some people out in the entire world who doesn't understand the bible. Give them time to come around. I used to be like them, They are just confused, I certain do not approve your type of behavior as a Christian, there's no needed to be harsh. :(
 
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