White privilege

[Bebonang]

Many aren't aware of how New Age Shamans have affected the Native Americans...

Those "shamans" or plastic shamans as indians call them have nothing to do with what real one do..

That is true what you are saying about the New Age Shamans (Medicine Men or Women). We avoided them. We also watched when the New Age Shaman tried to make money by asking people to pay him or her which it is wrong. The Shamans do not make money out of making medicines or helping people with health problems. We offered tobaccos and most Shamans accept that without money and that is the true and real Shamans. I have watched some of them and there are some who want to be paid and some who don't. True Shamans want to help people to get better like real Doctors only that the Doctors get paid. I hope you understand what I am saying here.

 

[jillio]

One of the symptoms of white privilege is that a white person becomes defensive when white privilege is discussed. Often, the white person will go into denial. That's a normal human reaction.

Absolutely. The defensiveness and cries of "It doesn't exist!" or "It isn't as bad as you say it is!" and "There are places that are far worse!" are pretty good indications that one has been living the life of white privilege all of their life.

 

[jillio]

Google can help you find the database to connect to as well, ya know.

If you know how to go about it, it is truly amazing that you don't bother to do your own research, and expect others to do it for you. If you know the process, you certainly should be able to use it.

 

[deafskeptic]

That is true what you are saying about the New Age Shamans (Medicine Men or Women). We avoided them. We also watched when the New Age Shaman tried to make money by asking people to pay him or her which it is wrong. The Shamans do not make money out of making medicines or helping people with health problems. We offered tobaccos and most Shamans accept that without money and that is the true and real Shamans. I have watched some of them and there are some who want to be paid and some who don't. True Shamans want to help people to get better like real Doctors only that the Doctors get paid. I hope you understand what I am saying here.

I think it's customary to use tobacco and it's my understanding that Traditional Indians do not accept any money for what they do for others.. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jillio]

There are many countries that do things far worse than we what do when it comes to discriminatory and prejudicial actions. Not opinions but based on actual data.

So because there are countries who have experienced more discriminatory and prejudicial behaviors, it makes it right?

And white privilege does not necessarily have anything to do with intentional behaviors like discrimination. Prejudice is no more than an idea. It is not a behavior. It is a belief held (mistakenly) that leads to discriminatory behavior.

 

[kokonut]

like who? Bushmen?

People like us living in the modern age. Like Sherri Shephard who wasn't sure if Earth was flat during a show on The View, which was really comical. She said it could be flat but never thought about it when asked that question by one of the The View girls on the show.

Remember, "civilized people" living in the modern age do not equate with complete knowledge of everything.

 

[jillio]

I don't totally agree with all of this. With today's technology there is no need to follow anyone around in a store. There are cameras everywhere. And if statistics prove that most in store crimes are committed by Irish people then would it be wrong for store owners to keep a closer eye on them? (no offense to the Irish) And if a black store owner thinks a black customer is suspicious and chooses to keep an eye on them, there is nothing wrong with that. Or a black store owner with a white or Hispanic or Asian customer. Mix and match however you wish.

I live in the Chicago area and there are blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, Muslims and everything in between. We live in the same communities, we work together, we shop together we ride the elevators together we take our families to the same restaurants and I don't see anyone is afraid or clutching their purse tightly just because there are people of other races in the same room.


There are laws that prevent lenders from discriminating. Gone through a home loan process lately? Maybe this kind of stuff happens in less diverse populations or rural areas. I am not saying there is no racism or prejudice out there because there is and it comes from all sides. Not just from white people.

The thing is, we are not necessarily talking about discrimination. That is a different concept from white priviledge.

 

[Bebonang]

yes, deafskeptic - same like "dreamcatchers" - but if you look closely, it may say "made in China". Supposed medicine people charging $150 for a sweat...mass marketing and commercialism of traditional Native ceremonies-

Always look for label when you go into the Native American shops and yes you will find from other countries marketed for traditional objects, books, and drums. We were disgusted at the way white people or other countries tried to copy to make fake objects that are not part of us that making the true traditional jewelry and other objects that we can orginally make them. It happened in many nations in Indian Country. Same here in Canada, too. :roll:

 

[Jiro]

I think it's customary to use tobacco and it's my understanding that Traditional Indians do not accept any money for what they do for others.. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would say yes. Money is just paper to them. Gotta give them something of value that they can use such as food, horse, gun, etc. If the entire stock market crashed... money's worthless to you, right?

 

[jillio]

you do know that we're mainly talking about white privilege in America? We cannot comment on other countries since we are not citizens of those countries. Quite majority of us are Americans so....... cool?

One needs to understand, as well, that white privilege does not necessarily lead to open discrimination, nor does open discrimination always go back to white privilege. One is intentional, one is not. They are different concepts.

Likewise, the majority of the world's population are people of color. So where does this idea that white is preferable stem from?

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Likewise, the majority of the world's population are people of color. So where does this idea that white is preferable stem from?

Francis Galton!

 

[jillio]

There are real and imagined "white priveleges." It's a worthy discussion here, no doubt. The problem is that people want to use that as a their source of guilt to perpetually self-flaggelate themselves to no end. That's when it becomes a problem. Right, Sally? There are problems here in the United States, indeed, but it isn't an exclusive and unique set of problems only to the United States when it comes to "white privileges."

addendum: Also, the U.S. isn't the only country full of caucasian people, either. You should already know that.

Prejudice and discrimination are definately a world wide phenomen. However, white privilege is decidedly a Western concept. They are not one and the same.

 

[jillio]

Hey, like I said, Google is your friend where it connects you to journals, research articles and so on. The info are out there. Sure, talking to people helps though not exactly a mean to an end.

Spend some time accessing what is out there. It would do you a world of good.

 

[jillio]

I don't go to google for that. I go to academic database. If your first stop is google for everything..... oh boy..... we're in deep shit :-o


yes... many people look for it in wrong place


and how were journals and research articles produced? by talking to people to illicit information. I don't know about you but if somebody was able to do that without talking to people... and getting it off strictly from computer... that's... amazing.

Exactly. Google isn't much use when one is attempting to research a topic like white privilege. You need to go to the academic data bases, because that is where the valid and reliable research is found. Anything found through Google, when researching a sociologically based topic, is suspect.

 

[jillio]

Francis Galton!

Good answer!

 

[kokonut]

So because there are countries who have experienced more discriminatory and prejudicial behaviors, it makes it right?

And white privilege does not necessarily have anything to do with intentional behaviors like discrimination. Prejudice is no more than an idea. It is not a behavior. It is a belief held (mistakenly) that leads to discriminatory behavior.

Like I said while back in other threads, countries that severely discriminate against gays, people of different faith and women through jailings, corporal punishment, stonings, other means of oppression, and executions live in a backward world. I'm sure that does not equate as "make it right."

 

[deafskeptic]

I would say yes. Money is just paper to them. Gotta give them something of value that they can use such as food, horse, gun, etc. If the entire stock market crashed... money's worthless to you, right?

I'll let Bebonang or dogmon answer this one.

 

[jillio]

Just because I claim there is a teapot on orbit between the Earth and Mars doesn't make it so. Making a claim is easy, supporting it with factual and impartial evidence is another story. It seems so easy to be able to write everything off as anecdotal or "be that as it may but X still exists." That is the kind of thinking seen when skeptics get suckered into arguments with True Believers of any topic.

(And to apply a small amount of snark - there's a great body of evidence supporting a teapot in orbit between Earth and Mars somewhere. )

It has been supported factually, any number of times. There are reams of research available on the topic to support the concept of the existence of white privilege.

 

[jillio]

I think there are a few monkey wrenches still orbiting up there as well. You make your points well taken. Anecdotal "evidence" is just that...anecdotal. It's part and parcel of the whole picture.

So go to the empirical evidence. It certainly exists. I even provided you with the name of a journal to browse. The rest of us are not responsible for the lack of investigation on the part of a few.

 

[Bebonang]

I think it's customary to use tobacco and it's my understanding that Traditional Indians do not accept any money for what they do for others.. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Traditional Indians are different from us Non-traditional Indians. We like to be called (modern Indians which we rely on white medicine like going to the hospital and clinics). Here in our First Nations, we do not have a Medicine Man or Shaman unless you go to another Reserve (Reservation) to obtain a Medicine Man or Woman. Yes, traditionally we always offered the tobaccos to get help with getting well instead of going to the doctors. Traditional Indians can do help others for free if not medicines. For example, I remembered one traditional man who is an artist, who use arts to help people for free and he does not want his arts to make money because he want to make people happy so that they will feel better with themselves by looking at his arts. He refused every time someone offered him money for his arts or to make his arts famous.