When a Child Says No

Neo said:
Thinking about that. Deaf may hard to find the jobs than hearing for future depend what jobs looking for.
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Sure, how about VR? I know that not all of VR are helping, though.
 
dreama said:
It is very bad to force a child to have a CI against their wishes. I hope that the parents do decide not to go along with it after all.

It's good that she can already sign and is also literate so what does she need a CI for anyway?
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Well, the oralists say that she needs to hear--that any amount of hearing is preferable to not hearing anything. But then they think also, and promote it in their methods--that speech and residual hearing are more important than transmission of knowledge and education. It obviously isn't about success, it's about success on the terms of the hearing!
 
jillio said:
Well, the oralists say that she needs to hear--that any amount of hearing is preferable to not hearing anything. But then they think also, and promote it in their methods--that speech and residual hearing are more important than transmission of knowledge and education. It obviously isn't about success, it's about success on the terms of the hearing!
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I know. It's really sad. It's one of the reasons I'm against CI's. Without CI's the oral method would have had to die out sooner or later. One would have hoped so anyway due to all the deaf who are emotionally damaged due to having to cope with oral only aproaches.
 
dreama said:
I know. It's really sad. It's one of the reasons I'm against CI's. Without CI's the oral method would have had to die out sooner or later. One would have hoped so anyway due to all the deaf who are emotionally damaged due to having to cope with oral only aproaches.
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Absolutely. The CI has just caused a revival in an ineffective apporach. Shame that some can't learn from their history and are doomed to repeat it. And it is the deaf who suffer as a result.
 
jillio said:
She is old enough to understand provided the information is presented properly, and what she sees is duscussed and talked about. Obviously, someone has giventhe child that opportunity, because she is aware of the intensive therapy required afterward. Removing of the tonsils or correcting a harelip is a surgery done to improve the health of the child, not to create a sense of hearing. CI is and will always be elective surgery. It is not done to improve the health, but to force the child into a situation of integrating with the hearing community on their terms.

And a 10 year old child is certainly old enough to know that she does not need her deafness corrected, that she is happy and well adjusted with her use of sign language. She knows that she feels comfortable and thrives in a signing environment. She knows that there is nothing wrong with her and that she doesn't need to become more hearing simply because it would be more convienient for her parents.
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Actually programs teaching children what to expect from surgery are geared to their age and intellect. But really beyond learning about IV's and the fact that there will be a cut behind the ear and a big bandage coving the ear for a day and it will hurt exactly why is it necessary to show them the gore. I dont' want to see the gorey pics myself since I have an adversion to gore but that doesn't mean I would refuse a 'elective' surgery (CI or some other) just because it was gorey.
 
I have no idea what kind of photos were shown and who showed them cuz I wasnt there when it happened.

Anyways, about showing children pics of surgery..I agree with Liebling...we shouldnt sugarcoat it and be honest as much as we can. It is the child that will go thru it, right? Why lie or sugarcoat it? That's just my opinion..
 
jillio said:
The majority of social workers are hearing and are woefully ignorant of the issues regarding deafness and CI. They tend to side with the oralists camps becasue hearing and speech are all they know and therefore have the completley mistaken belief that it is always better.
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Yea, that was what I was thinking too.
 
I was aghast to hear that her parents wouldn't listen to her wants and the fact, she doesn't want a CI, they should respect that period!

Maybe she should write a letter to the Doctor and tell him/her that she doesn't wish to be implanted and that she's old enough to decide for herself thus they should respect her wishes. I think she should write or talk to whomever would listen.

Actually, contact a child's advocate might help because children do have rights after all.

I recall a episode from Malcolm in the Middle: Malcolm were prepped for surgery, but it turned out he didn't need it or something and he tried to tell everyone in the Hospital that he didn't want or need the surgery. But they didn't listen to him until they had him in OP room, and pulled his gown up exposing his leg. On his leg, he wrote saying they'll face being sued if they dared operate on him and that there was nothing absolutely wrong with him. Then the surgeon went white-faced as he read the writings on the leg and called off the surgery. Isn't that clever?
 
dreama said:
I know. It's really sad. It's one of the reasons I'm against CI's. Without CI's the oral method would have had to die out sooner or later. One would have hoped so anyway due to all the deaf who are emotionally damaged due to having to cope with oral only aproaches.
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Why would you say that the deaf are emotionally damaged due to having to cope with oral only aproaches......do you have any experiences to base this statement on???????

Shel90........you say the parents have not learned more than basic signs, how do they communicate with the child?
 
Raykat said:
Why would you say that the deaf are emotionally damaged due to having to cope with oral only aproaches......do you have any experiences to base this statement on???????

Shel90........you say the parents have not learned more than basic signs, how do they communicate with the child?
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I was emotionally damaged from being raised in the oral only approach. There r so many people I know that have some scars from being raised emotionally. Thank goodness I recognized what I was missing and now I am happiuer but still get anxiety whenever I am in a large group of non signers.

As for the parents communicating with the child..I know of so many families like that. Unable to use more than basic communication with their deaf children. One family I know communicates thru aim in different rooms in the same house. Hard to believe huh but it happens. My brother and my dad r unable to communicate with each other alone. I always had to interpret for them.
 
jillio said:
The majority of social workers are hearing and are woefully ignorant of the issues regarding deafness and CI. They tend to side with the oralists camps becasue hearing and speech are all they know and therefore have the completley mistaken belief that it is always better.
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Jillio, I will try to change that attitude! Just look under my user name.
 
shel90 said:
I have no idea what kind of photos were shown and who showed them cuz I wasnt there when it happened.

Anyways, about showing children pics of surgery..I agree with Liebling...we shouldnt sugarcoat it and be honest as much as we can. It is the child that will go thru it, right? Why lie or sugarcoat it? That's just my opinion..
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A child doesn't need to see graphic photos of surgery. Tonsil surgery is actually an elective surgery, but is done to cut back on sore thoats, but it is really not NEEDED. Should we show young children pictures of this type of surgery? after all it's not needed, health can be insured by using antibiotics as needed and they are much less invasive.

In truth a child needs to have ageneral idea what happens in surgery. Graphic pictures are not needed. Pictures showing the incision and an explanation of what is under it. Diagrams of ear anatomony and an explanation of what the dr is going to do. But the bloody part is NOT necessary.

Oh and to add, I believe that graphic photos have been placed on the internet somewhere, so one does wonder if a child who said yes and then decided no was shown those photos by someone who does not believe in CI's for any deaf person.
 
Raykat said:
Why would you say that the deaf are emotionally damaged due to having to cope with oral only aproaches......do you have any experiences to base this statement on???????

Shel90........you say the parents have not learned more than basic signs, how do they communicate with the child?
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Experiences abound!!!!! And not only experiences as anecdotal evidence, but psychological, sociological, and educational research.
 
jillio said:
Experiences abound!!!!! And not only experiences as anecdotal evidence, but psychological, sociological, and educational research.
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I am sorry to hear that some people have been emotionally damaged by their oral experiences, my experience has been quite the opposite. Whilst married I tended to hide behind my husband in some social situations, he would quietly lipread to me the topic of conversation etc. However after seperating I just had to get out there and do it alone, including dating in the hearing world after 28 yrs of marriage, it has made me a much stronger person.

Never having entered the Deaf community I decided to see what was on offer, however one visit confirmed my views that I did not fit into that world,not being able to sign, etc. It seems every person experience is different and we make the most of what we have.

I can relate to Shels comment about beign stressed when faced with a non signing group, my main peeve is the number of foreigners (for want of a beter word) who now serve in our shops and banks, people with strong foreign accents who make it so difficult to lipread.
 
Raykat said:
I am sorry to hear that some people have been emotionally damaged by their oral experiences, my experience has been quite the opposite. Whilst married I tended to hide behind my husband in some social situations, he would quietly lipread to me the topic of conversation etc. However after seperating I just had to get out there and do it alone, including dating in the hearing world after 28 yrs of marriage, it has made me a much stronger person.

Never having entered the Deaf community I decided to see what was on offer, however one visit confirmed my views that I did not fit into that world,not being able to sign, etc. It seems every person experience is different and we make the most of what we have.

I can relate to Shels comment about beign stressed when faced with a non signing group, my main peeve is the number of foreigners (for want of a beter word) who now serve in our shops and banks, people with strong foreign accents who make it so difficult to lipread.
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I never thought I would fit in with the deaf community or that I was too different from them because I didn't sign. When I started taking ASL clases to meet my foreign language requirements at the age of 25, it just opened a new world for me. Deaf people r just like people in the hearing community. Different personalities only that there r no communication barriers and chatting away in coversations weren't work as they were being in the hearing world. No, iam not friends with every deaf person cuz everyone is different just like people r different in the hearing world but when I click with people with same interest in addition to no communication barriers, I felt really truly connected for the first time in my life. Now I know that being deaf is ok after all.
 
Raykat said:
I am sorry to hear that some people have been emotionally damaged by their oral experiences, my experience has been quite the opposite. Whilst married I tended to hide behind my husband in some social situations, he would quietly lipread to me the topic of conversation etc. However after seperating I just had to get out there and do it alone, including dating in the hearing world after 28 yrs of marriage, it has made me a much stronger person.

Never having entered the Deaf community I decided to see what was on offer, however one visit confirmed my views that I did not fit into that world,not being able to sign, etc. It seems every person experience is different and we make the most of what we have.

I can relate to Shels comment about beign stressed when faced with a non signing group, my main peeve is the number of foreigners (for want of a beter word) who now serve in our shops and banks, people with strong foreign accents who make it so difficult to lipread.
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I'm glad to know that you suffered no ill effects from your oral background. And I understand what you mean about the foreign accents. I currently work with a deaf college student who is very sign based, despite the fact that he has a CI. We have several foreign professors, and when he has a one on one meeting with them, it always requires a terp. He can lipread the English speaking profs enough to converse 1 on 1, but uses a terp in class for them as well.
 
shel90 said:
I never thought I would fit in with the deaf community or that I was too different from them because I didn't sign. When I started taking ASL clases to meet my foreign language requirements at the age of 25, it just opened a new world for me. Deaf people r just like people in the hearing community. Different personalities only that there r no communication barriers and chatting away in coversations weren't work as they were being in the hearing world. No, iam not friends with every deaf person cuz everyone is different just like people r different in the hearing world but when I click with people with same interest in addition to no communication barriers, I felt really truly connected for the first time in my life. Now I know that being deaf is ok after all.
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That last sentence I can really relate to, tho not for the same reason, I have decided to start a new thread and just see how many others have had the same experience as me.
 
jillio said:
No names were used so no confidentiality has been breached. And it is necessary for people to be made aware of situations such as these becasue it allows them to be informed on all sides, not just the promise of becominghearing that the CI advocates would wish the public to see.
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I am a bit confused by your reply to me in post #35 in this thread. It doesn't seem to have any relevence to anything I said in the post you quoted. A mistake perhaps?
 
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