What about personal rights to choose?

[Audiofuzzy]

In other words, you can't disrespect people and expect them to like you.

And I am disrespecting them HOW? byt wanting to know what is like to hear? by wanting to hear for myself, and to be able to communicate with hearing world easier way?


Gnu, you are taking your "love for the deaf culture and ASL" and whatnot a little too far.
You are backing up automatically anything even remotely glorifying deaf and deafness, without any reason or logic or discernment. Looks like you just blindly plod ahead with your adopted deafness.
Nothing's wrong with deaf, Deaf, deafness, Deaf culture and wanting to be included in deaf culture, but for gosh sake think for yourself.

I'm not going to stop anyone who consider on getting a CI, There is nothing wrong with my opinion based on how I FEEL. You don't have to agree with me. If you are happy with your choice, your decision, then why does it bother you so much on how I feel?

Why it bothers me? I tell you why- because you are judging me. You are judging me for my choice.
Clear now?

(and Cheri it wasn't directed at you - it was to anyone who used your quote as an example and/or argument)

I agree with you, Rockdrummer. because once a person wants to withdrawn out of a community where their social friends go to, and want us to accept that fact that it's their life and choice, but what happened to our special friendship?

Is the mere fact that the two people are both deaf - friendship? or is it how people relate to each other a friendship? If am white and you are white does that mean we will automatically be friends??

It's not going to be the same anymore.

It may not be the same in a sense that one person is trying something new and radical. It sure changes the dynamics in relationship.
It's like one of two girl-friends is getting married. Is that a crime, getting married? I think not.
Certainly it won't be easy for the one who didn't got married, because her married gf will have less time for her and all,
but does it justify to end a friendship? if it doesn't last it probably wasn't very strong form the beginning. Sadly it's not uncommon thing for even logtime relationships to fall apart, for many reasons.

It's like rejecting the Deaf community and the friendship all together. It would hurt me a great deal and I've been there before. I'm tired of people who want to change themselves and then becomes a stuck-up.

Like I said if the friendship was real it will continue, changed.
Wanting to hear is not neccessarily rejecting Deaf community. It might be just a wanting to do something new in life.
And a stuck -up was probably a stuck-up always, anyway. It just didn't had a chance to show, before.


BTW if I remember correctly Angel mentioned that due to her circumstances she did not learn ASL right away only was taught other ways of communication at first,
and because of that initially was shunned form the deaf community. Was that nice? was that sign of readiness to accept other deaf people intersted in deaf culture on the deaf people part?
It certainly doesn't look like that to me.
What it looks like to me - a prejudice. And I am afraid these prejudices still exist, in many forms. For example, against deaf pple who want to try out for a bit of hearing..

Fuzzy

 

[Cheri]

Is the mere fact that the two people are both deaf - friendship? or is it how people relate to each other a friendship? If am white and you are white does that mean we will automatically be friends??

No, That's not my point what I was trying to come across, What I am trying to say is, that I've already experience some friends who had their implanted no longer wanted to be part of the Deaf Community nor those who are deaf, if the friendship was developed during the time before CI ever came out to a choice, then when one gets a CI, some change, they're not the same people anymore, They act like they're all that better than you, This is what I'm gotten from some of them, "I now have a CI, Why should I be partially involved with the Deaf Community and it's people?"

Like I said if the friendship was real it will continue, changed.
Wanting to hear is not neccessarily rejecting Deaf community. It might be just a wanting to do something new in life.
And a stuck -up was probably a stuck-up always, anyway. It just didn't had a chance to show, before.

Having something new in their life, doesn't need to turn away from people that they used to social with before getting a CI. Why can't they be the person they use to be, a person that wouldn't allowing CI, effect their choice of friends or it's Deaf Community? Does it mean that when someone tries something new, does that necessary means new friends, new community?

 

[Fragmenter]

Those people aren't worth the time.

That's how I feel now. Why expend my energy trying to explain reality when they're not receptive to it?

 

[loml]

Audiofuzzy

Gnu, you are taking your "love for the deaf culture and ASL" and whatnot a little too far.
You are backing up automatically anything even remotely glorifying deaf and deafness, without any reason or logic or discernment. Looks like you just blindly plod ahead with your adopted deafness.
Nothing's wrong with deaf, Deaf, deafness, Deaf culture and wanting to be included in deaf culture, but for gosh sake think for yourself.

 

[loml]

Post #81

Post # 81



Adiofuzzy,

The entire post ....

 

[Cloggy]

It's worth reading this post again, so I left it here......

And I am disrespecting them HOW? byt wanting to know what is like to hear? by wanting to hear for myself, and to be able to communicate with hearing world easier way?


Gnu, you are taking your "love for the deaf culture and ASL" and whatnot a little too far.
You are backing up automatically anything even remotely glorifying deaf and deafness, without any reason or logic or discernment. Looks like you just blindly plod ahead with your adopted deafness.
Nothing's wrong with deaf, Deaf, deafness, Deaf culture and wanting to be included in deaf culture, but for gosh sake think for yourself.




Why it bothers me? I tell you why- because you are judging me. You are judging me for my choice.
Clear now?

(and Cheri it wasn't directed at you - it was to anyone who used your quote as an example and/or argument)



Is the mere fact that the two people are both deaf - friendship? or is it how people relate to each other a friendship? If am white and you are white does that mean we will automatically be friends??



It may not be the same in a sense that one person is trying something new and radical. It sure changes the dynamics in relationship.
It's like one of two girl-friends is getting married. Is that a crime, getting married? I think not.
Certainly it won't be easy for the one who didn't got married, because her married gf will have less time for her and all,
but does it justify to end a friendship? if it doesn't last it probably wasn't very strong form the beginning. Sadly it's not uncommon thing for even logtime relationships to fall apart, for many reasons.



Like I said if the friendship was real it will continue, changed.
Wanting to hear is not neccessarily rejecting Deaf community. It might be just a wanting to do something new in life.
And a stuck -up was probably a stuck-up always, anyway. It just didn't had a chance to show, before.


BTW if I remember correctly Angel mentioned that due to her circumstances she did not learn ASL right away only was taught other ways of communication at first,
and because of that initially was shunned form the deaf community. Was that nice? was that sign of readiness to accept other deaf people intersted in deaf culture on the deaf people part?
It certainly doesn't look like that to me.
What it looks like to me - a prejudice. And I am afraid these prejudices still exist, in many forms. For example, against deaf pple who want to try out for a bit of hearing..

Fuzzy

 

[sr171soars]

...

Having something new in their life, doesn't need to turn away from people that they used to social with before getting a CI. Why can't they be the person they use to be, a person that wouldn't allowing CI, effect their choice of friends or it's Deaf Community? Does it mean that when someone tries something new, does that necessary means new friends, new community?

I agree with you that it doesn't have to be that way.

But, I also see what Fuzzy is saying as well. This type of behaviour of changing one social circle isn't restricted to the issue of CIs either. As Fuzzy said, a friend getting married, having a baby, divorce, going away to college, and other "lifechanging" event can do the same thing. I think most of us can attest that we don't have the same friends for our whole lifetime (regardless of events in our lives). We might have a couple that we keep in touch with but others go in and out of life depending on the circumstances.

I guess my confusion is whether to take this concept of a CIs causing one to spurn the deaf community (or certain friends in deaf community) as seriously as some state. More specifically, is it the case all people who are in deaf community that get a CI spurn their old friends? I have seen enough (here and elsewhere) to know that this isn't always nor a majority of the cases. So, my question becomes...what is the real issue here?

In my case, my getting a CI really didn't change anything of my social circle at all. If nothing else, it expanded it some. Of course, I do need to point out that I wasn't ever in the deaf community in the first place so I can't really comment with actual experience on that specific issue. It is funny though, my CI brought me back to full circle looking at what it means to be deaf in a hearing world even if I do quite well in it.

On your last point, I say the answer is "It depends?". It just depends upon the nature of the change (new thing) in that person's life. The more profound the change, the more likely the dynamics will force a change. Whether this fair or not? Who knows and people often can adjust to the change in dynamics especially good friends.

 

[Cheri]

As Fuzzy said, a friend getting married, having a baby, divorce, going away to college, and other "lifechanging" event can do the same thing.

It's not the same thing as having a CI thou. Because everyone knows that having a baby changes everything, a baby would be the center of the universe, change our lives in ways we never dreamed possible. Same goes for married couples, which I know most of them still do keep in contract with their long-time friends. And for college, those college students are always busy setting their goals and truly motivated towards getting their degree, They don't have much time for all their old friends from high school anymore. Which is very understandable, But those who wear CI, no excuse. Sorry that's how I see it.

I think most of us can attest that we don't have the same friends for our whole lifetime (regardless of events in our lives). We might have a couple that we keep in touch with but others go in and out of life depending on the circumstances.

I agree, but if you spend the same amount of time in a long period of length with the same friends, all sudden just one day, It all disappears just because one decide to have a CI, is no longer needed to social with the same people. What's their excuse? Do they think they're better than us, or too good to be our friend?

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Cheri I hear ya girl. I really do.
When somebody decides to change their life and then disappear it feels like rejection to others. And it is, bottom line.

Ever since we are discussing the subject of newly implanted deaf people exiting the deaf scene, I was wondering and wondering and came to the conclusion that sadly but as with anything radical new the changes are inevitable. Just as with those other ways the person's life changes- a baby, marriage, moving out etc. Some handle these changes better, some worse- and I mean implantees.

CI simply offer some new venues that need to be explored.
Depending on the person, one may sever all the ties with the past or one may not.
I would say kudos to those who remember where did they came from and value the friendship of their longtime friends.
Thumbs down for those who go away and never look back or worse get the almighyt attitude.

But as you can plainly see it has little to do with CI itself, everything with the person character.

CI is something that requires a lot of work, particularly at the beginning so it is understandable that your hypothetical friend may have less time for you. He/she needs to go to the therapy, spent more time with hearing people to learn how to best use his/her new device.
That does not mean he/she has turned nose up at you. It's the same as with the new baby, husband/ wife etc.

I know it hurts. But if your deaf friend dreams of learning what is like to hear, wants to hear, would you say 'no' because..... you are thinking mainly of yourself? which is human and natural, after all.

Fuzzy

ps. and thank you for your other comments ya'll too kind ! :Oops:

 

[Cheri]

But if your deaf friend dreams of learning what is like to hear, wants to hear, would you say 'no' because..... you are thinking mainly of yourself? which is human and natural, after all.

Of course not, I wouldn't say no to anyone who wishes to get a CI for themselves, and experience what's it is like to hear, but a friendship shouldn't end just because of that. I never understand the real reason behind it all. I guess life goes on.

 

[vrsterp]

My opinion is that if you're old enough to make that choice, you've researched it and you know it's what you want, then more power to you.

That's the difference between personal choice and having your child implanted.

I, personally, would never have my child implanted because I see nothing wrong with them being deaf. I have a huge culturally deaf family (i'm hearing.) and it's not a big deal to me.

I don't like when parents go into having their child implanted with the mentality of "I'm going to fix him."

As I've said before, playing devil's advocate, that most parents don't know better. They have NO deaf experience, and they have all these wonderful doctors saying "We can fix this. We can fix him! He'll be able to hear like normal!" This is mighty tempting for those who don't understand deafness or deaf culture. I have no experience with blindness. I don't know anyone who is. And all I can compare it to is if I had a child and he/she was born blind, and this doctor told me "Oh, we can fix it with a simple surgery and he'll be able to see like a normal person" It's like "Wow..it's that easy..." It's the same for most parents with no deaf background.

To be honest, I think if the options came down to:
1. These hearing parents with no deaf background are going to implant their kid with a CI and raise him hearing
or
2. These hearing parents will leave their kid deaf, dump him in a residential school, never learn sign language, and not give a second thought to him except for the hassle of picking him up from the bus station on friday afternoons...

I pick 1.

 

[GalaxyAngel]

Their choices preferences... ci best techoglies depends kinds of device...

always upgrade best ci than old ones..

My concern is.. about other children or adults may have operation again again replace improved best techoglies ci ...

Is that reason skin can be disolved or easily infection ??

I have no idea research enough as well.. but mostly I've seen they already operation twice or third.. Im not sure..

 

[R2D2]

My opinion is that if you're old enough to make that choice, you've researched it and you know it's what you want, then more power to you.

That's the difference between personal choice and having your child implanted.

I, personally, would never have my child implanted because I see nothing wrong with them being deaf. I have a huge culturally deaf family (i'm hearing.) and it's not a big deal to me.

I don't like when parents go into having their child implanted with the mentality of "I'm going to fix him."

As I've said before, playing devil's advocate, that most parents don't know better. They have NO deaf experience, and they have all these wonderful doctors saying "We can fix this. We can fix him! He'll be able to hear like normal!" This is mighty tempting for those who don't understand deafness or deaf culture. I have no experience with blindness. I don't know anyone who is. And all I can compare it to is if I had a child and he/she was born blind, and this doctor told me "Oh, we can fix it with a simple surgery and he'll be able to see like a normal person" It's like "Wow..it's that easy..." It's the same for most parents with no deaf background.

To be honest, I think if the options came down to:
1. These hearing parents with no deaf background are going to implant their kid with a CI and raise him hearing
or
2. These hearing parents will leave their kid deaf, dump him in a residential school, never learn sign language, and not give a second thought to him except for the hassle of picking him up from the bus station on friday afternoons...

I pick 1.

I respect your opinion and I think you have a point that if a CI is proceeded with a mentality that the child is now going to be "normal" and there is no further acknowledgement of a child's deafness then that would be wrong. Growing up I too have felt put off by some people's emphasis on being "normal". I don't think anyone is "normal" - even hearing children should be accepted as individuals in their own right. However I am very glad that I was given access to technology just when I was young enough to benefit from it to help me hear and to reach my potential in adult life. But that's just me.

I agree with your 2 scenarios - I've seen examples of children who were just dumped at residential schools, they don't even comb their hair. But I doubt that with a CI that the same child would be treated much different by the same parents. You don't just have a CI implanted and that's it. The CI is only the start - there is a fair bit of work involved with supporting a deaf child with a CI. Lazy parents who can't be bothered to learn sign would also probably not be bothered to ensure that the CI had enough battery power, that it was treated carefully, repaired, turn up for auditory therapy sessions etc etc.

In other words lousy parents are lousy in virtually all situations that requires any form of effort.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.