What about personal rights to choose?

[Liebling:-)))]

It's just the way it is. But, before they reach the age of five, they are allow to go to any preschool program, some provides for free, some have to pay, some like co-op preschool which is a short for cooperative, is an organization that is owned or managed by the members of the group, Parent have to be involved, take responsibility be a helper, help with teaching, play, clean, prepare food, fund raise, be around young kids, know the other parents, etc.

Interesting, Kindergarten do not need us parents because they have educators and caretaker to take care of children in different group between 3 and 6 years old) in Kindergarten.... All what we do is bring our children to there and pick them up, that´s all. We only support Kindergarten with bake cakes, foods, drink, fund raise etc. during festivals. It´s same with school as well.

I was turned down on co-op preschool program for my son, Markus when he was young, They didn't want a deaf mother helping out, They labeled me dangerous mother because the fact that I'm deaf. I couldn't suit them because, it's an organization which managed by members who are parents of kids that go to that program. They all voted no expect one parent voted yes. It's very sad how some people can be very judgemental.

Oh dear, why can´t they try to get know you better instead of jump and judge you because of your deafness... They must be closed mind. Yes I has to agree with you that some of parents could be judgement when something comes.

*shake my head disguist* I know it´s same with me here... Some of hearing parents don´t like to chat with me because they don´t know how to communicate with me... *sigh* :roll: Until one evening my hubby and I went to parental evening with an interpreter. We got interpreter to tell hearing parents how we felt... why can´t they tried to know me better... what have we done anything? All parents are like and then us... They started to try to talk with us but some of them made their first move to chat with us... They got us to join hearing mother and child group that´s time Alan was baby. They talked to us time to time but not often... Better than nothing...

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Fuzzy, This is just an observation on my part but I don't understand your position here. You say that you want to drop the deaf culture AND you want the folks within that culture to accept you regardless.

Well yes this is just one aspect of this story,
because why should my wish of being hearing would not be respected? If we consider that I have free will and I have rights to want to immerse myself in hearing world to experience it as best as possible why should I be ostracized because of that?
Shouldn't the deaf community say "Wow she's brave she's going to try and see if she can manage in hearing world without assistance. A lot of hard work before her. I wonder what will gonna happen, I wish her best".
Instead, looks like I would rather be rejected from deaf scene, not wanted anymore. My new experiences - not wanted.

Thee are some things that I am wondering about:

1. I want to get CI, drop off deaf scene and yet I wish my decision is respected by deafs and I am not ostracized.
That is because I feel I have right to want to try become more like hearing (within reasonable expectations) and not rejected because of that by deaf community.

2.I don't want to drop off the deaf scene, on the contrary- I NEED deaf scene but if I get an implant I will be rejected and looked down upon. Which I am afraid of. So what do I do..

3. I am a HoH/Oral or hearing parent of a deaf child which I want to implant AND I want to introduce to deaf culture hoping it will be growing with two sets of words- deaf and hearing, hence speaking and ASL.
But deaf community does not like implanted children so I am afraid I will have to choose one or the other only.

Lots to think about, and most curious why deaf community SO don't like CI.

Fuzzy

 

[Cheri]

1. I want to get CI, drop off deaf scene and yet I wish my decision is respected by deafs and I am not ostracized.
That is because I feel I have right to want to try become more like hearing (within reasonable expectations) and not rejected because of that by deaf community.

Keep dreaming, You'll never be hearing or equal as a hearing person. You're still be deaf weather or not you want to believe it. That's what makes it so annoyed to the Deaf community is that when a CI thinks they are "hearing" because of the device that they wear.

2.I don't want to drop off the deaf scene, on the contrary- I NEED deaf scene but if I get an implant I will be rejected and looked down upon. Which I am afraid of. So what do I do..

You're only going to look down if you thinking or telling us that you are now hearing after you get your CI, because all of us know that CI is not a cure and would never be a cure.

3.But deaf community does not like implanted children so I am afraid I will have to choose one or the other only.

Now, that is not true at all however, it has nothing to do with the children itself. It has to do with parents taking in control of a child's future, life. When the children have no choice in this matter.

Lots to think about, and most curious why deaf community SO don't like CI.

You are labeling all Deaf people who are involves with the Deaf community, There are some deaf people who accept CIers, I'm one of them, You would have some others who doesn't accept CIers. Those are the ones who stick with their little world.


Now, If Lily'sDad comes to any Deaf events where I go to, You'll see me hugging his daughter and talk to the parents too, And if Cloggy decide to be part of it too, I'll treat him the same too included his daugther, And if Rockdrummer gets involves too, I'll treat him the same as others CIers with respect!

 

[Awauphi]

Sorry, forgot that. Yes, Kindergarten since she was 1.... (like I said, learned to walk there.)

Are you sure it is not therapy? Preschool?

I was put in therapy when i was 2 yrs old. then started Kindergarten when i was 5 yrs old.

My son was put in therapy at the age of 16 months old due to not walking, and cant talk due to sensory Processing disorder. He had pt, ot, sp, and is in class full day every day till age 5 and he went to Kindergarten at West Side. now he is in 1st grade. He doesnt need speech therapy anymore which is good news! (sorry off topic ha) Just curious cuz I thought kindergarten is for children who are 5 yrs old.

for myself.. If i get ci.. I would still consider myself deaf as i know it is not a cure anyway. I still love sign language and will continue to use it no matter what. I just want to be able to hear clearly and be able to understand people. I love music as well as I was exposed to it on early age. I wore ha all of my life. I still associated around with deaf people as i went to Ark. School for the Deaf from age 5 to 18 yrs. I still think Ci is amazing technology but i know it doesnt help some.

I noticed that people dont know how to respect others wish for ci. Just be happy for them? It is their choice if they want to- fine with me. No arguements. Maybe they are jealous? Not understanding of others wishes. If they are not happy with that then they are not your true friends. you are better off by finding others who admire you for who you are! period! their loss! oh well!

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Keep dreaming, You'll never be hearing or equal as a hearing person. You're still be deaf weather or not you want to believe it. That's what makes it so annoyed to the Deaf community is that when a CI thinks they are "hearing" because of the device that they wear.

Where am I saying I will be hearing or equal as hearing person? Didn't you noticed my insert:

try become more like hearing (within reasonable expectations)

meaning I KNOW I won't be able to hear and speak like a 100% hearing person.

Where do I say anyone who is implanted with CI is cured "stoped" from being deaf? I NEVER said that, no I don't think so,
on the contrary I always say while CIs and HAs may improve hearing ability greatly it does not cure deafness,
and as soon as the device is broken or removed we are all back to being hearing impaired.

You're only going to look down if you thinking or telling us that you are now hearing after you get your CI, because all of us know that CI is not a cure and would never be a cure.

Well, the CI does assist with hearing pretty well for most pple so depending on how much it is succesful an implantee may hear from so-so to very well.
What does it has to do with "curing" ir not curing"?
We are talking about how CI can improve hearing. Maybe some people does not understand what "cure" really means.

CI is not a "cure". It is temporary improvement that works as long as CI is worn/used.

last but not least, if I am hearing much better after receving CI and I say that - am being honest- then why would I be looked down upon? Isn't the whole idea of CI to make people hear better?

Anybody can get an implant (anybody who qualifies). Anyone can hear better with CI, I am not the only one.

You are labeling all Deaf people who are involves with the Deaf community

What about Lilly'sdad experience? he was rejected by MAJORITY at Deaf Nation,
only one couple of deaf pple welcomed him and his daughter. This is a fact he wrote..



Fuzzy

 

[Cheri]

Audiofuzzy,


I want you to understand something, In general, not all in the Deaf community are against cochlear implants. Just because one had a experience of being rejected, that doesn't mean that every Deaf who were at the Deaf Nation, doesn't like those who wear cochlear implants, we don't know what they are thinking inside their minds, or in their hearts. They might gave a look at Lily'sdad's family, because they might never experience having a CIer at a Deaf Nation, We don't know that really, There are so much possibilities. It could be a reason for them being hard to understand or accept the difference. Just like when a Deaf goes into a mainstream schooling, some hearings have no knowledge that someone who would be different would be in their classroom, Their reaction at first would be confused. I'm just giving an example, and I'm not making an excuse for some people in the Deaf Community, I'm trying to point out we cannot jump to conclusion of thinking that Lily's dad and others who walked the same path of life, being rejected.

Look at me for example, I've been involved with the Deaf Community when I was in oral method schools, mainstream, When I went to some Deaf events, some had looked down at me, when they saw me speak for the first time, I try always to laugh these things off and ignore them, Did They ever gave me a chance to know me, instead of judging me? It didn't stop me from coming around again, When I did it took those same people time and patience to come around me to get to know the real me. Guess what Hun, They accept me after a long tug a war going there being ignored. Like I said before many times it takes a lot of patience for them to be fully understand that you want to be part of the Deaf community, it shows will power, Don't let them upset you, show them that nothing they do can hurt you, because you are who you are, you are the same person. They either accept it or not. The quality of life we have is not based on what we hear with our ears with any devices, It's the positive attitude and look in the beauty of life.


We cannot face life with negatives outlook from some people from the Deaf Community, We, have the willpower to ignored and go to people who willing to accept who you are as a person, not because that you have a cochlear implants, it's because you still will not be afraid to stand up for yourself, that you're proud that you have something to look forward to by having a cochlear implants, but wouldn't stop you from being part of both worlds, Deaf and Hearing.


I'm not an anti-CI, It's hard for me to explain why I am so against implanting on babies and toddlers even small children. Ok, When I see children with cochlear implants, I see their small bodies, small head, thinking of how small their organs are and etc. It just that I feel sorry for them, because seeing what they are wearing a magnet whatever you call it on their heads, It makes my skin crawl, (I'm not saying that to be offensive to anyone believe me I try not to be) and the fact that they missed out on a lot of their childhood by spending inordinate amounts of time in speech therapy from a very young age. You see what I'm coming from? Maybe that is no excuse on how I feel, but it just I cannot get it out of my head or my heart, no matter how hard I've tried, It's like it's stuck in my head like glue effectively be saying "Those parents who decide implanting on their children, it's more like saying, You aren't good enough the way you are" That doesn't mean I hate those parents who implanted their children, nor the children itself, I would not even treat them different than I'll treat others with respect. I can understand that all parents want what's best for their children and their future requirements needs. The more I gotten to know Cloggy, Rockrummer, Lily'Dad and others parents who are going through the same thing, I've learned that they love their children very much, and would do anything to make their children happy even if it means to be involved with the Deaf community and meet other Deaf people out there.

 

[deafdyke]

Then, after a year of 60% in a hearing kindergarten, we will have her 1 year at 100%. The following year she will go to a normal school, mainstream. We will probably still make sure that she get's sign language.

Do they have magnet schools in Norway? Magnet schools are mainstream, but have a high population of dhh/blind/otherwise disabled kids....I actually think that the traditional mainstream method (ie only dhh or one of only a handful of dhh) doesn't work too well, socially and I mean a lot of mainstream teachers are CRAP in teaching kids with traditional disabilites (as opposed to learning disabilites) Trust me.....you pratcially have to be a lawyer in order to get any decent accomondations. Also, be on the lookout for social issues to come up around jr high or high school. A lot of kids with traditional disabilites have horrible times in adolencence.

read a quote in a book today that said (I'm paraphrasing here): "If a child is getting by just fine in life without sign language, why would their parents think to teach it to them?" It makes perfect sense. I have quite a few friends who were raised orally, and I've asked them why they didn't learn sign. They're responses tended to be, "What's the point? I get by just fine without it."

That's easy. B/c it gives dhh kids another tool to use. They'll be able to function both with and WITHOUT hearing aids or CI! It also might improve their functioning......like when I learned how to ski, I took lessons in the regular ski school. After about five or six years, I was still at the level of an advanced beginner (modified stem christy) Then I started taking lessons at an adaptive ski school....and just took off! I can still remember my first run, that I did NO SNOWPLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How many oral dhh kids, who are just ditty-bopping along with oral speech could do MUCH MORE with Sign?
A lot of the oralists seem to be products of the " Oh I don't need "special needs" things mentality.
I believe that even mildly hoh kids should have the option of learning Sign....they may not need it the way that profoundly deaf kids need it, but it could serve as a really good tool....Like at a music fest I go to, we have no ALD things, but we do have 'terps. And I mean, Sign and Deaf culture are a lot more interesting then reading about the Latest ALD or How the Ear Hears.

 

[Angel]

What about Lilly'sdad experience? he was rejected by MAJORITY at Deaf Nation,
only one couple of deaf pple welcomed him and his daughter. This is a fact he wrote..



Fuzzy

Oh my goodness AudioFuzzy, just cause ONE couple out of many deaf people from the deaf culture rejected him and his daughter , that doesn't mean many of deaf people will do the same thing, instead of claiming that it would happen to you or your child after wearing CI..For many years I have not seen any arguments that deaf people were against hearing aids when I know for the fact that some deaf people can hear so well with the use of their hearing aids and the deaf community is not against cochlear implants but is against the idea of children are not old enough to have a decision about wearing CI and I see that CI is often pushed in some instances when it may NOT be in the best interest of the child, that how many deaf people see it, and this is what I've heard so far, since I do listen to both sides and like I said I have no problem with them feeling that way even I don't like the idea of babies being implanted CI cause I feel they're too little and it's hard to know how much amount of hearing a little baby could actually hear with the use of hearing aids...

 

[neecy]

Oh my goodness AudioFuzzy, just cause ONE couple out of many deaf people from the deaf culture rejected him and his daughter , that doesn't mean many of deaf people will do the same thing, instead of claiming that it would happen to you or your child after wearing CI (snip)

You misread what he said ...ONLY ONE COUPLE *accepted* him and his daughter. Just one.

The rest were hostile.

 

[Cheri]

You misread what he said ...ONLY ONE COUPLE *accepted* him and his daughter. Just one.

The rest were hostile.

You don't understand her, I understood her perfectly fine, She meant that not everyone in the whole wide world who are deaf from the deaf culture would rejected Lily's Dad. Get it now?

 

[neecy]

You don't understand her, I understood her perfectly fine, She meant that not everyone in the whole wide world who are deaf from the deaf culture would rejected Lily's Dad. Get it now?

actually if you read she said (here's a quote)

Oh my goodness AudioFuzzy, just cause ONE couple out of many deaf people from the deaf culture rejected him and his daughter , that doesn't mean many of deaf people will do the same thing,

It was the exact opposite in Lilly's Dad's situation - only one couple welcomed him. The rest were rejecting. See what I'm getting at. The one couple she's referring to didn't reject him - they welcomed them. Everybody else rejected them.

 

[Angel]

actually if you read she said (here's a quote)



It was the exact opposite in Lilly's Dad's situation - only one couple welcomed him. The rest were rejecting. See what I'm getting at. The one couple she's referring to didn't reject him - they welcomed them. Everybody else rejected them.

Opps I made a simple typo error I meant to say accepted but I put the wrong word down....


Beside Cheri is correct of what I really meant on my post, but forgive me for my typo error, it happens often when I type too quickly...

 

[neecy]

Opps I made a simple typo error I meant to say accepted but I put the wrong word down....


Beside Cheri is correct of what I really meant on my post, but forgive me for my typo error, it happens often when I type too quickly...

No problem - it looked like you hadn't understood what he said and I was pointing that out. I'm a typo queen too *grin* so no worries. I think every netizen nowadays has lapsed into typonese from time to time

 

[Angel]

No problem - it looked like you hadn't understood what he said and I was pointing that out. I'm a typo queen too *grin* so no worries. I think every netizen nowadays has lapsed into typonese from time to time

Ahh I can see what you really mean here, I just re-read my post again it look like I made more than just one error on my post, :Oops: next time I'll re-read my post once more before I click on the submit button, sorry about that ...

 

[Cheri]

By the way neecy, Audiofuzzy is a "she".

 

[Cloggy]

Are you sure it is not therapy? Preschool?

Preschool is fine as well, but in Norway they go from "Barnehage" to school. No distinction between "Preschool" and "Kindergarten". It's not therapy. Now, with her CI, and having aged a bit, she does get 3 hr a week intensive speech-therapy, like all other deaf, hoh and CI-children in the school.

 

[Cloggy]

Do they have magnet schools in Norway? Magnet schools are mainstream, but have a high population of dhh/blind/otherwise disabled kids....I actually think that the traditional mainstream method (ie only dhh or one of only a handful of dhh) doesn't work too well, socially and I mean a lot of mainstream teachers are CRAP in teaching kids with traditional disabilites (as opposed to learning disabilites) Trust me.....you pratcially have to be a lawyer in order to get any decent accomondations. Also, be on the lookout for social issues to come up around jr high or high school. A lot of kids with traditional disabilites have horrible times in adolencence.

They do have them but with so few deaf/hoh the effect is minimal. It's great for deaf and hoh children but when peech is easily understood, there's no need. Also, we believe that she is better of in her own neighbourhood so she will get friens close to home.
As for integration, I met a girl (12y.o.) that was here on an international school (she's from USA) with CI. Her teacher's didn't even notice that she was deaf. She hears everything and speaks normally. The CI is allways hidden under the hair.

Regarding needing a lawyer.... deaf and hoh people have many rights in Norway and schoold have to accomodate for that. If needed, we will insist on it, but from the looks of it now, our daughter can hear very well in noisy environments.

 

[Cloggy]

.... Just because one had a experience of being rejected, that doesn't mean that every Deaf who were at the Deaf Nation, doesn't like those who wear cochlear implants, we don't know what they are thinking inside their minds, or in their hearts....

I totally agree with you. And that goes for all people.

We cannot judge anyone without getting to know the persons better.

 

[Cloggy]

Angel...

The gif-file in your signature is really depressing... I hate seeing your name desintegrating every time.....
Can't you reverse the gif ???

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy is a Dutch. He married a Norwegian and live in Norway. They together have 3 kids... Their deaf daughter is their 3rd and last child.

Ah, Liebling.. (This really sounds funny when one knows German :Oops: ) you're allmost correct.... married a Dutch women.. who also emigrated to Norway... Rest is correct. Son of 9, daughter of 7 and daughter of 3½