US Soldier Seeks Asylum in Germany Over Iraq War

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My dad TALKED her into it. She's young. She did not know what she was getting herself into. You should know what happened when she was in the Air Forces before. That was a story in itself. Dad talked her into the US Air Forces, too. She's lucky they did not charge her with desertion because of her mental status. Now she's in the Navy. She's got two more years left, I believe.
Well - I don't think it's her mental status because if it was, she would be automatically discharged due to psychological disability.

I hope you're right. She's currently working as a plane mechanic in the USA.
well A plane mechanic..... nothing to worry about. They're far from harm unless the enemy has advanced arsenals (but none of our enemies do).
 
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No, he's a firefighter like his father before him.
Interesting...I wonder why he pressured her into different things when she could perhas become a firefighter or police or doctor or something...

Well as Jiro mentioned, most people who are into navy dont really go to alot of wars in the middle east unless something came up but doesnt happen much.

Airforce, Military and Army seems pretty much used for the middle east now these days.

One of my cousins married a man who was in the navy as well right now he is in the army going to the middle east again eventually.
 
He shouldn't be forced to fight in a war where he could get killed. Maybe the last tour he was in traumatized him, and he doesn't want to go back? War isn't pretty, you know. He's not a terrorist or anything, he just doesn't want to go back to Iraq.

Yes, it's not just him but many soliders refuse to go Iraq because they feel that Iraq war is an illegal.
 
that's too bad. it's called DESERTION. It's punishable by death (but of course we don't do that). The soldiers cannot just "quit" and leave like in civilian world. the laws are different and what soldier did was illegal.

Don't worry, Lucia. I'll help you to understand this issue to the best of my knowledge. Reba - correct me if I'm wrong.

When you WISH to leave military, you can do so but it must be done properly via paperwork. Unfortunately - the process can takes up to several weeks to even several months. The point is - you CAN leave voluntarily. When? I don't know but I tell you this - it's LOT better than being charged with desertion/AWOL because if your record has "Dishonorably Discharged".... that's pretty bad if you're looking for good job - assuming the company runs background check on you. You may not even get hired by big-name stores like Wal-Mart because the hiring managers don't look kindly/sympathetic on deserters.

Desertion is a serious charge... usually punishable up to 5 years in jail (but also punishable by death as well). Suck it up and wait for your paperwork to get processed. that's the best I can suggest.

The people join army because they want to serve and defend their country. They have no problem for years until Iraq war issues came. They have the right to say no when they feel that Iraq war is an illegal.

Yes your post remind me of Nazi time... it does the same with Nazi time during WWII, many soliders refused to join because they feel that war is illegal. Sadly, they were being send to Nazi camp or death penalty...

The soliders thought they can quit due end of their agreement contract and choose to not extend the agreement contract and handle resign letter... Unfortunlately their decision for resign are being ignore few days and weeks before their end of contract agreement. Thanks Stop Loss Policy, they are being forced to sign extend the contract agreement instead of let them leave Army... :(

Accord the article, I posted... the soliders can say no when they feel that the war is illegal.


Huber pointed out that Germany's law -- set up by the US military at the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal after World War II -- says that soldiers must take responsibility for their own actions.

"Just following orders is not an excuse. What we have here is a case of a soldier following his sense of personal responsibility," he said
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When enlisted people sign up for duty with the military, they sign a contract that specifies the required length of duty, and how it's divided up (active duty and reserve duty).

Officers sign up for an open-ended length of time; they have a minimum active/reserve obligation but their contract doesn't expire until they request resignation.

If officers or enlisted have legitimate reasons for getting out early (disability or hardship) then they have to request it thru the chain of command. There are very specific steps required to follow. If the request is first denied it can be appealed. After that, the only other option is an appeal to one's Congressman for help. The chain of command MUST forward all Congressional requests within a specified time limit.

Getting pregnant is not desertion. It could be a factor in dereliction of duty or disobeying a direct order, such as no fraternization.

Unauthorized absence (UA, a Navy term), missed movement (applies to all services), or absent without leave (AWOL, Army term) means someone temporarily didn't show up for duty but plans to return.

Desertion means someone leaves the military with intentions of never returning. This is usually indicated when the service member makes a verbal or written statement ("I'm never going back to the Army"), or destroys all their uniforms and/or ID card, or joins enemy forces.

The military usually gives the benefit of the doubt to someone who is missing unless they have strong proof otherwise. Desertion is the most serious and disgraced category, so the military leaders try not to pin that on someone unless they have no other choice.

People can also "leave" the military by committing a civil crime, drug abuse, or committing offenses chargeable in the UCMJ. That's not a good way to do it. The person will have to suffer punishment, and most likely a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable discharge. If they get that kind of discharge, they can't get any benefits from the VA. They can also never get a Federal civil service job, probably not a State civil service job, or many other kinds of jobs. They can't re-enlist in other services. It's a life-time black mark unless they can prove it was wrongfully assigned. It's not easy, and it's rare.
 
Interesting...I wonder why he pressured her into different things when she could perhas become a firefighter or police or doctor or something...

Well as Jiro mentioned, most people who are into navy dont really go to alot of wars in the middle east unless something came up but doesnt happen much.

Airforce, Military and Army seems pretty much used for the middle east now these days.

One of my cousins married a man who was in the navy as well right now he is in the army going to the middle east again eventually.

I'm going to just guess - maybe it's because the father can't afford anything for her.
 
If you want to know how one war objector resolved his ethical conflict, read or watch the original movie about Sergeant York.

Sergeant York (1941)

My uncle was drafted during the Korean war. He was a Christian who didn't believe in killing. He wasn't trying to "get out" of his obligation but he applied for conscientious objector status. So he was assigned as a Chaplain's duty driver and assistant. That meant he fulfilled his military obligation and served in the danger zone but didn't carry a weapon. If you know anything about military chaplains and medical people, then you know they serve in the most dangerous areas with the least protection.
 
Yes, it's not just him but many soliders refuse to go Iraq because they feel that Iraq war is an illegal.
SORRY! Tough luck!

The people join army because they want to serve and defend their country. They have no problem for years until Iraq war issues came. They have the right to say no when they feel that Iraq war is an illegal.

Yes your post remind me of Nazi time... it does the same with Nazi time during WWII, many soliders refused to join because they feel that war is illegal. Sadly, they were being send to Nazi camp or death penalty...

The soliders thought they can quit due end of their agreement contract and choose to not extend the agreement contract and handle resign letter... Unfortunlately their decision for resign are being ignore few days and weeks before their end of contract agreement. Thanks Stop Loss Policy, they are being forced to sign extend the contract agreement instead of let them leave Army... :(

Accord the article, I posted... the soliders can say no when they feel that the war is illegal.
SORRY! Tough luck!

I'm glad America does not cuddle or babysit or spoon-feed people like the way you want. It's called personal responsibility. When you sign the contract, they automatically accept the fact that they COULD be killed, stationed somewhere else, etc... including being issued a Stop-Loss Order. Again - SORRY. TOUGH LUCK! If they don't like it, then don't join military. simple as that.
 
If you want to know how one war objector resolved his ethical conflict, read or watch the original movie about Sergeant York.

Sergeant York (1941)

My uncle was drafted during the Korean war. He was a Christian who didn't believe in killing. He wasn't trying to "get out" of his obligation but he applied for conscientious objector status. So he was assigned as a Chaplain's duty driver and assistant. That meant he fulfilled his military obligation and served in the danger zone but didn't carry a weapon. If you know anything about military chaplains and medical people, then you know they serve in the most dangerous areas with the least protection.

Great example, Reba. I was not aware of that kind of process but I have heard of military Chaplains. Even though I'm not very religious, I have a HUGE HUGE HUGE respect for military Chaplain especially in war zone. I don't have their God-size courage to be in war zone without a weapon.
 
...Before boarding the Dorchester back in January, Reverend Poling had asked his father to pray for him, "Not for my safe return, that wouldn't be fair. Just pray that I shall do my duty...never be a coward...and have the strength, courage and understanding of men. Just pray that I shall be adequate." He probably never dreamed that his prayer request would be answered so fully. As he guided the frightened soldiers to their only hope of safety from the rapidly sinking transport, he spoke calm words of encouragement, urging them not to give up. In the dark hull of the Dorchester, he was more than adequate. He was a hero.

Likewise Reverend Fox and Father Washington stood out within the confines of an unimaginable hell. Wounded and dying soldiers were ushered into eternity to the sounds of comforting words from men of God more intent on the needs of others, than in their own safety and survival. Somehow, by their valiant efforts, the Chaplains succeeded in getting many of the soldiers out of the hold and onto the Dorchester's slippery deck.

In the chaos around them, life boats floated away before men could board them. Others capsized as panic continued to shadow reason and soldiers loaded the small craft beyond limit. The strength, calm, and organization of the Chaplains had been so critical in the dark hull. Now, on deck, they found that their mission had not been fully accomplished. They organized the effort, directed men to safety, and left them with parting words of encouragement. In little more than twenty minutes, the Dorchester was almost gone. Icy waves broke over the railing, tossing men into the sea, many of them without life jackets. In the last moments of the transport's existence, the Chaplains were too occupied opening lockers to pass out life jackets to note the threat to their own lives.

In less than half an hour, water was beginning to flow across the deck of the sinking Dorchester. Working against time the Chaplains continued to pass out the life vests from the lockers as the soldiers pressed forward in a ragged line. And then....the lockers were all empty...the life jackets gone. Those still pressing in line began to realize they were doomed, there was no hope. And then something amazing happened, something those who were there would never forget. All Four Chaplains began taking their own life jackets off....and putting them on the men around them. Together they sacrificed their last shred of hope for survival, to insure the survival of other men.... most of them total strangers. Then time ran out. The Chaplains had done all they could for those who would survive, and nothing more could be done for the remaining...including themselves.

Those who had been fortunate enough to reach lifeboats struggled to distance themselves from the sinking ship, lest they be pulled beneath the ocean swells by the chasm created as the transport slipped into a watery grave. Then, amid the screams of pain and horror that permeated the cold dark night, they heard the strong voices of the Chaplains. "Shma Yisroel Adonai Elohenu Adonai Echod." "Our Father, which art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done."

Looking back they saw the slanting deck of the Dorchester, its demise almost complete. Braced against the railings were the Four Chaplains...praying...singing, giving strength to others by their final valiant declaration of faith. Their arms were linked together as they braced against the railing and leaned into each other for support, Reverend Fox, Rabbi Goode, Reverend Poling, and Father Washington. Said one of the survivors, "It was the finest thing I have ever seen this side of heaven."
The Four Chaplains

Please read the whole story at the link.
 
The Four Chaplains

Please read the whole story at the link.

My religious friend whose father is a minister told me about Chaplains. That's how I knew of it. At first - I thought they were a coward for not participating in combat but at the end of lecture from him, that's when I had a huge respect for them. War is not won by guns. It's by size of faith in each soldier.

clapping.GIF
 
My brother is in the Army. He has proudly served for years. He has been on many tours. Desert strom, and now serving his 5th tour in Iraq. Would he ever desert or go AWOL? No!
He may not believe this is a just war, but he also believes in what we are fighting for. He has served under many different sections while over there. The first time he was deployed to Iraq he was part of a special forces group. Their location was highly classified. We did not know if he was dead or alive due to the secure nature of his position. When he came hoome on one of his leaves he had many stories to tell. (At least the ones he was allowed to tell) There is so much more going on over there than the media portrays. The US media is ANTI war, and paints the whole thing in a negative tone. Where are the reported when the children or Iraq run up to the soldiers thanking them?
Many young Americans join the millitary for the love of their country. Wanting to defend us and our rights to freedoms. There are others who join because of their lifestyle. They know that if they keep heading down the path they have chosen they will die. My nephew is also in the millitary. He was in Gangs. The millitary was the best thing he has ever done for himself.
 
My brother is in the Army. He has proudly served for years. He has been on many tours. Desert strom, and now serving his 5th tour in Iraq. Would he ever desert or go AWOL? No!
He may not believe this is a just war, but he also believes in what we are fighting for. He has served under many different sections while over there. The first time he was deployed to Iraq he was part of a special forces group. Their location was highly classified. We did not know if he was dead or alive due to the secure nature of his position. When he came hoome on one of his leaves he had many stories to tell. (At least the ones he was allowed to tell) There is so much more going on over there than the media portrays. The US media is ANTI war, and paints the whole thing in a negative tone. Where are the reported when the children or Iraq run up to the soldiers thanking them?
Many young Americans join the millitary for the love of their country. Wanting to defend us and our rights to freedoms. There are others who join because of their lifestyle. They know that if they keep heading down the path they have chosen they will die. My nephew is also in the millitary. He was in Gangs. The millitary was the best thing he has ever done for himself.
:gpost:
 
they DO know. EVERYTHING is in the contract that they signed. Every solder is given a manual (it's a small book) and it contains all the military laws, procedures, etc. It's every soldier's responsibility to read it. They can choose not to do so. They know the paperwork takes a long while so they said - "fok it. i'm not risking my life for this. i'm outta here." So they simply ran away to countries like Canada as asylum refugee.

I sympathize but.... well.... :mad2: Let's hope the next President pardon them like Carter so that they can come back home.

You seem to know a lot about the military. Any of your close family members in the military?
 
I'm going to just guess - maybe it's because the father can't afford anything for her.

My father is well-off. He has a nice big house with a huge backyard with a little basketball court and fences around the backyard. The house is a 5 bedroom house plus a den and a second living room and pool room (where you play pool table) and a play room and he used to have a very big swimming pool but since we are all grown up and we never come back to the house anymore, he tore down the pool and sold it to someone else since it was too much work to keep the pool clean and whatnot. He has a very nice truck (2009) and a 2009 car as well for his bitch wife. His wife is currently begging him for a SPORTS CAR. My sister and I feel that she is greedy and she should not get the sports car. He's constantly buying newer truck and car every year and selling the old truck and car to get the new truck and car. Once the truck or car is a year old, he sells them and buys newer ones. And there's lots more. He's definitely not poor. We USED to be very poor before my mother died. But after that, when he married his wife, is when he began to make more money and he was able to afford all that shit now. They're currently touring the USA to find a place to retire, they are looking at my old hometown in Colorado (I'm saying NO WAY, it's MY hometown :mad2: He was born in Arkansas, not Colorado like I was) and I hope they will settle somewhere else like California, because I want to get a vacation home in Colorado in my old hometown when I am married and have a job and can afford all that shit, but won't be able to if they live there. Too close for my comfort. Of course, all that nice stuff will never make up for all the abuse that I and my sister endured at the hands of our father's wife and our father as well. I think he's being paid so well because he has been a firefighter for so many years and has seniority now, and also is an EMT as well. He also has his own business with central heating and A/Cs where he installs central heating and A/Cs in homes. I once tried to work with him, but the stuff were HEAVY!
 
Well - I don't think it's her mental status because if it was, she would be automatically discharged due to psychological disability.

Well, I am not sure exactly what happened, but she got into some kind of trouble with the Air Forces including desertion (I think) but they waived her or something because of her mental status, and discharged her but also gave her a time period that she can have so that if she wants back in the Air Forces, she has to re-join before the deadline date, but she missed the deadline, so she was unable to re-join, and instead her father and our step-sister talked her into joining the Navy.

well A plane mechanic..... nothing to worry about. They're far from harm unless the enemy has advanced arsenals (but none of our enemies do).

I hope you're right. My main worry is the possible deployment.
 
You seem to know a lot about the military. Any of your close family members in the military?

all my family members (men only) have served in armed forces (mandatory in Korea) and several of my friends are/were in armed forces. My grandfather was the high-ranking official between Korea and Japan. I guess serving as public servant is in my blood. I'm working hard to serve as well.
 
Well, I am not sure exactly what happened, but she got into some kind of trouble with the Air Forces including desertion (I think) but they waived her or something because of her mental status, and discharged her but also gave her a time period that she can have so that if she wants back in the Air Forces, she has to re-join before the deadline date, but she missed the deadline, so she was unable to re-join, and instead her father and our step-sister talked her into joining the Navy.
ah.. well... hmmm... I don't know. that sounds rather complicated.

I hope you're right. My main worry is the possible deployment.
oh she will be deployed somewhere but she won't be in front line or patrolling around the street in hummer because she is just a mechanic, not infantry. Beside she's Navy.. she'll be staying in boat or shipyard or whatever.... far from danger like IED and insurgent attacks.
 
Well, I am not sure exactly what happened, but she got into some kind of trouble with the Air Forces including desertion (I think) but they waived her or something because of her mental status, and discharged her but also gave her a time period that she can have so that if she wants back in the Air Forces, she has to re-join before the deadline date, but she missed the deadline, so she was unable to re-join, and instead her father and our step-sister talked her into joining the Navy.



I hope you're right. My main worry is the possible deployment.

Two of my cousins married their men one who is in the army and other who is in the navy.

The one from the army is going back to Iraq soon...he've been to afhaginstan (sp?) before. other one in the navy is a pilot who fly jets off the ships so navy isnt just about battle ships...it can also be used for ships carrying jets for take offs. He fled to Iraq and Afgahinstan before just mostly for collecting information on landscapes and such...

So navy and airforce are sort of similar since it uses jets.

Everything you need to know about the US navy seals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Navy_Seals
 
Bring the troops home and end this bullshit.

That's all that I gotta say. We're not even CLOSE to winning these lame wars.
 
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