US Soldier Seeks Asylum in Germany Over Iraq War

[Liebling:-)))]

US Soldier Seeks Asylum in Germany Over Iraq War

A US soldier is seeking asylum in Germany after deserting to avoid re-deployment in Iraq. The case could have major political ramifications for Germany.

A US army deserter will go before German officials to request political asylum on Wednesday, Feb. 4. Andre Shepherd, 31, said he went absent without leave (AWOL) after being told he would be deployed to Iraq for a second time.

Shepherd said he deeply opposes the US-led invasion of Iraq and that he could not continue to serve in what he called a "completely illegal war."

It is the first time that a US soldier has claimed asylum in Germany, making it a landmark case with far-reaching political and legal ramifications.

The hearing takes place in the western German city of Karlsruhe at the Federal Immigration Office -- part of Germany's interior ministry.

"Wednesday is my chance to tell my side of the story," Shepherd told AFP news agency.

Avoiding an "illegal war"

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Shepherd said he didn't want to serve in an "illegal war"

Shepherd will argue that the war is illegal and that he would be unfairly prosecuted if handed over to US authorities.

Shepherd, a native of Cleveland, Ohio, served in Iraq for five months starting in September of 2004, where he serviced Apache helicopters as part of the 412th Aviation Support Battalion. He spent 19 months on the run before applying for asylum in November of 2008.

Tim Huber from the Military Counseling Network, which has been working with Shepherd, told AFP that the potential legal precedent of a positive ruling would have a "huge impact."

"There would not be a whole lot stopping US soldiers walking off their bases" to claim asylum, he told AFP.

Huber pointed out that Germany's law -- set up by the US military at the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal after World War II -- says that soldiers must take responsibility for their own actions.

"Just following orders is not an excuse. What we have here is a case of a soldier following his sense of personal responsibility," he said.

Politically tricky case

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The case could complicate US-German relations

The ruling could put Germany in a politically uncomfortable position, said Shepherd's lawyer, Reinhard Marx.

"Legally, it's an open-and-shut case. Politically, we don't know," Marx told AFP. He added: "It's of course a very politicized case. There's a very fine line between politics and the law."

Marx said that the government will make a final decision about whether to allow Marx to stay in the country.

The hearing will last half a day and is closed to the public. A decision could take up to four months, Marx said.

Shepherd promised to appeal in the courts if his application is rejected.

"I will definitely fight on, as I don't believe I or anyone else should be prosecuted for doing what they think is right," he told AFP.

He said if asylum is granted he would "definitely settle in Germany" and has "absolutely no desire" to return to the US, despite the change of power in the White House.


US Soldier Seeks Asylum in Germany Over Iraq War | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 03.02.2009

 

[Jiro]

DOMESTIC DISSENT. ARREST HIM!

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

He shouldn't be forced to fight in a war where he could get killed. Maybe the last tour he was in traumatized him, and he doesn't want to go back? War isn't pretty, you know. He's not a terrorist or anything, he just doesn't want to go back to Iraq.

 

[Jiro]

He shouldn't be forced to fight in a war where he could get killed. Maybe the last tour he was in traumatized him, and he doesn't want to go back? War isn't pretty, you know. He's not a terrorist or anything, he just doesn't want to go back to Iraq.

that's too bad. it's called DESERTION. It's punishable by death (but of course we don't do that). The soldiers cannot just "quit" and leave like in civilian world. the laws are different and what soldier did was illegal.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

that's too bad. it's called DESERTION. It's punishable by death (but of course we don't do that). The soldiers cannot just "quit" and leave like in civilian world. the laws are different and what soldier did was illegal.

I personally think that soldiers should be allowed to leave the military if they feel they cannot handle fighting a war. I don't care if it is called desertion or not. That's the government's opinion, not mine.

My sister is in the Navy. I fear EVERY SINGLE DAY that she will be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. If she gets sent there, I will be very upset and sad. I do not want to lose her. She is my only sister. I would like for her to be able to leave the military if she has been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan but she does not want to go.

Do you know why my sister is in the Navy? My dad talked her into it. I am so mad at my dad for that. He does not care about us.

 

[Jiro]

I personally think that soldiers should be allowed to leave the military if they feel they cannot handle fighting a war. I don't care if it is called desertion or not. That's the government's opinion, not mine.

My sister is in the Navy. I fear EVERY SINGLE DAY that she will be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. If she gets sent there, I will be very upset and sad. I do not want to lose her. She is my only sister. I would like for her to be able to leave the military if she has been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan but she does not want to go.

it's not government's opinion. it's the LAW and every soldier SIGNED the contract. Yes they can leave the military if they want but it has to be done as according to the rule to get DISCHARGED. By ignoring the process and leaving military... that is desertion.. one of the worst crimes you can ever commit during wartime.

 

[Jiro]

Do you know why my sister is in the Navy? My dad talked her into it. I am so mad at my dad for that. He does not care about us.

why? I don't think there's nothing more honorable than serving in armed force to protect us and the country. You should be proud of her because it's an unselfish duty to protect and serve. Did I stop my best friend and my friends from joining army? No I did not. I lost one but I'm proud of him. it's better than living as a regular Joe the Plumber, contributing nothing to society. That's why veteran benefit is nice when you're honorably discharged from armed force.

beside - I don't think you should be very worried. Navy & Air Force are relatively safe during wartime because they don't usually participate in land combats. Your sister's safe on warship or aircraft carriers. Women are not allowed in submarines unless that has been changed.

 

[Babyblue]

He was not drafted. He joined the service by choice and singed up. Can not back out because he is scared.

Proper procedures has to be followed.

Reminds me of the TV series M*A*S*H. Guy trying to pretend to be Gay to be discharged.

 

[Steel X]

why? I don't think there's nothing more honorable than serving in armed force to protect us and the country. You should be proud of her because it's an unselfish duty to protect and serve. Did I stop my best friend and my friends from joining army? No I did not. I lost one but I'm proud of him. it's better than living as a regular Joe the Plumber, contributing nothing to society. That's why veteran benefit is nice when you're honorably discharged from armed force.

beside - I don't think you should be very worried. Navy & Air Force are relatively safe during wartime because they don't usually participate in land combats. Your sister's safe on warship or aircraft carriers. Women are not allowed in submarines unless that has been changed.

If women can join the army, military, airforce and navy then why are they not allowed in submarines?

Anyway, I personally dont blame him for refusing to go back to Iraq since War is hell obviously.

In my very opinon, the Iraqi war is nothing but a personal waste of time cause its always about "black gold" there more than doing any other objectives such as tracking down terriorism and they are VERY slow at that. Bush failed to capture Bin Laden who has been around in afgahistan thats MUCH worse than Iraq obivously so if we didnt go to war in Iraq, we proably would've saved time by focusing war on Afgahistan and other middle eastern countries where terrorism are most likely located so Bush was very slow on that part and just focused mostly on Iraq which had absloutely nothing to do with the 9/11th attacks and such. So seriously...depending on the kind of war and such, I dont blame him for refusing to go back cause there are not that many terrorist organization there. :roll:

Anyway, one of my grandmother's brothers was a soilder in WWII and he got shot and killed by a Nazi soilder and it was very sad that we lost him, but I am proud of him for standing up and fight against evil such as the Nazi which was definetly a very serious threat to the world.

What threat did Iraq EVER give us? Let me tell you. NONE. Bush, Cheney, and Colin Powell tell us they have weapons of mass destruction and yet, NONE of them were ever found so no proof. That's part of why I see Iraqi war is nothing but a joke to me.

But anyway, that's just my opinon. I give my honor and sympathy to the families of soilders who died in Iraqi war since 2003...they were brave and fought for their duty of our country. I just wish they have actually fought a more serious war like the one in afgahnistan that we are currently having major problems there since.

 

[Steel X]

I personally think that soldiers should be allowed to leave the military if they feel they cannot handle fighting a war. I don't care if it is called desertion or not. That's the government's opinion, not mine.

My sister is in the Navy. I fear EVERY SINGLE DAY that she will be sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. If she gets sent there, I will be very upset and sad. I do not want to lose her. She is my only sister. I would like for her to be able to leave the military if she has been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan but she does not want to go.

Do you know why my sister is in the Navy? My dad talked her into it. I am so mad at my dad for that. He does not care about us.

Your dad worked in the army, airforce, or navy before?

 

[Jiro]

If women can join the army, military, airforce and navy then why are they not allowed in submarines?

because submarine is a very cramped vehicle with very limited space. The submarine stays underwater for a long period of time - usually several months. Women means - they need to create a separate facility. it's the space they can't afford. plus... a few females in submarine full of men.... not really a good idea, eh?

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

it's not government's opinion. it's the LAW and every soldier SIGNED the contract. Yes they can leave the military if they want but it has to be done as according to the rule to get DISCHARGED. By ignoring the process and leaving military... that is desertion.. one of the worst crimes you can ever commit during wartime.

I thought that once you signed up for the military, you can never be discharged ever unless it's a medical discharge, or a dishonorable discharge, or you have completed your service with the military.

 

[Jiro]

I thought that once you signed up for the military, you can never be discharged ever unless it's a medical discharge, or a dishonorable discharge, or you have completed your service with the military.

lol this is not dictatorship (unlike mine). they can choose to leave at any time... sometimes not under special circumstance such as Stop Loss Order.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

why? I don't think there's nothing more honorable than serving in armed force to protect us and the country. You should be proud of her because it's an unselfish duty to protect and serve. Did I stop my best friend and my friends from joining army? No I did not. I lost one but I'm proud of him. it's better than living as a regular Joe the Plumber, contributing nothing to society. That's why veteran benefit is nice when you're honorably discharged from armed force.

beside - I don't think you should be very worried. Navy & Air Force are relatively safe during wartime because they don't usually participate in land combats. Your sister's safe on warship or aircraft carriers. Women are not allowed in submarines unless that has been changed.

My dad TALKED her into it. She's young. She did not know what she was getting herself into. You should know what happened when she was in the Air Forces before. That was a story in itself. Dad talked her into the US Air Forces, too. She's lucky they did not charge her with desertion because of her mental status. Now she's in the Navy. She's got two more years left, I believe.

Jiro, I love my sister and if I lost her, I don't know if I can handle that. I think family matters more than military. I lost my mother years ago. My mother's family are scattered all over the west and Hawaii as well as Florida.

My stepsister was also in the Navy as well, and she almost got into trouble with the Navy because she got pregnant while in the military (so my aunt told me). Something about it being considered desertion or something? I don't remember. She had her son and she completed her service a few years ago, though, and went on to have a baby girl.

I hope you're right. My sister is currently working as a plane mechanic in the USA.

And veteran benefits being so nice? I don't see that very much. Some of my mother's family were in the military. VA benefits is not so great. My mother's family were very poor. My step-grandfather ended up on SSDI cause he can no longer work due to an injury, and was not getting enough benefits from VA. The only family members I know that are getting good benefits are my older cousins and their children (who I almost went to live with in Hawaii).

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Your dad worked in the army, airforce, or navy before?

No, he's a firefighter like his father before him.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

because submarine is a very cramped vehicle with very limited space. The submarine stays underwater for a long period of time - usually several months. Women means - they need to create a separate facility. it's the space they can't afford. plus... a few females in submarine full of men.... not really a good idea, eh?

My older cousin is in the Navy and he works in submarines off of Hawaii.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

lol this is not dictatorship (unlike mine). they can choose to leave at any time... sometimes not under special circumstance such as Stop Loss Order.

If they can choose to leave at any time, then why didn't the US soldier do that? Is there a reason they are charging him with Desertion/AWOL if he was allowed to leave at any time? This does not make sense. I do not understand. Why didn't he simply do the paperwork and process it in order to get out of the military? If it is supposed to be this easy?

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

it's not government's opinion. it's the LAW and every soldier SIGNED the contract. Yes they can leave the military if they want but it has to be done as according to the rule to get DISCHARGED. By ignoring the process and leaving military... that is desertion.. one of the worst crimes you can ever commit during wartime.

Why do they not tell this to each soldier that joins the military? I think if they had told them, they would have known that they can leave at any time if they do the proper process according to the rule to get discharged, then maybe some soldiers would not have lost their lives had they known this.

 

[Jiro]

If they can choose to leave at any time, then why didn't the US soldier do that? Is there a reason they are charging him with Desertion/AWOL if he was allowed to leave at any time? This does not make sense. I do not understand.

Don't worry, Lucia. I'll help you to understand this issue to the best of my knowledge. Reba - correct me if I'm wrong.

When you WISH to leave military, you can do so but it must be done properly via paperwork. Unfortunately - the process can takes up to several weeks to even several months. The point is - you CAN leave voluntarily. When? I don't know but I tell you this - it's LOT better than being charged with desertion/AWOL because if your record has "Dishonorably Discharged".... that's pretty bad if you're looking for good job - assuming the company runs background check on you. You may not even get hired by big-name stores like Wal-Mart because the hiring managers don't look kindly/sympathetic on deserters.

Desertion is a serious charge... usually punishable up to 5 years in jail (but also punishable by death as well). Suck it up and wait for your paperwork to get processed. that's the best I can suggest.

 

[Jiro]

Why do they not tell this to each soldier that joins the military? I think if they had told them, they would have known that they can leave at any time if they do the proper process according to the rule to get discharged, then maybe some soldiers would not have lost their lives had they known this.

they DO know. EVERYTHING is in the contract that they signed. Every solder is given a manual (it's a small book) and it contains all the military laws, procedures, etc. It's every soldier's responsibility to read it. They can choose not to do so. They know the paperwork takes a long while so they said - "fok it. i'm not risking my life for this. i'm outta here." So they simply ran away to countries like Canada as asylum refugee.

I sympathize but.... well.... Let's hope the next President pardon them like Carter so that they can come back home.