Two girls with CI...

[shel90]

REPEATED????? or Rachel met these pple IN PERSON?

I met a few students with cochlear implants and hearing aids,

..... Their speech was very unintelligible because they relied on sign language frequently.

In that I would not have fully participated in the mainstream environment, and my speech would have been unclear and, thus, more difficult for people to understand.

Rachel simply stated if she relied on sign like these students she met IN PERSON, also her speech could have been unintelligible - (that's TRUE), and difficult for others to understand.



I believe either way she's right. Most signing pple have poor speech, period.





She saw what she saw, and what reflects the majority.
Her parents wanted her to have good oral skills, she's got it, and she's happy with it.
If, at one point she'll have to switch to deaf ways, learn sign- she CAN.
These students with unintelligible speech will not have better oral skills, ever. Not like her.


Fuzzy

So f what? My brother's speech is unintelligible but that doesnt mean Rachel is superior to him. My god..is that all u see? Literacy skills should be the first thing people look at not oral skills.

 

[deafskeptic]

Huh? Some deaf just CANT develop oral skills..my brother is a perfect example of that.

My ex bf is one of those people as well. I remember hearing telling him to shut up as his voice sounded awful. Yet he has better English skills than I do and he's far better at math than I am. I normally don't say this about most deaf or hearing for that matter.

 

[jillio]

REPEATED????? or Rachel met these pple IN PERSON?

I met a few students with cochlear implants and hearing aids,

..... Their speech was very unintelligible because they relied on sign language frequently.

In that I would not have fully participated in the mainstream environment, and my speech would have been unclear and, thus, more difficult for people to understand.

Rachel simply stated if she relied on sign like these students she met IN PERSON, also her speech could have been unintelligible - (that's TRUE), and difficult for others to understand.

Once again, Fuzzy, read the words int he quote you are using. You are completely missing the contextual implications in her words.

I believe either way she's right. Most signing pple have poor speech, period.

Where do you get these stats? You are making a broad based assumption regarding an entire population that you simply cannot support. In addition, speech skills are not the important variable. Language skills are, and research has consistently shown that those exposed to both sign and speech have superior lingusitic and cognitive abilities.


She saw what she saw, and what reflects the majority.

It in no way reflects the majority. Her exposure is extremely limited, and cannot be generalized to an entire population. And anecdote based on superficial critera without full understanding of what is being observed is useless.
Her parents wanted her to have good oral skills, she's got it, and she's happy with it.
If, at one point she'll have to switch to deaf ways, learn sign- she CAN.
These students with unintelligible speech will not have better oral skills, ever. Not like her.
Perhaps not. But they will have superior language skills. That is far more benefit than oral skills.

 

[deafskeptic]

There Not?

Jag, there's nothing wrong with Boston being a bastion of deaf culture. However, given the implicit negatively regarding the context, I was certain I'd be reading about how the parents think that oralism is for the deaf. I wasn't wrong. Most hearing are biased toward those who can speak well.

I remember running across one book with a title that caught my attention and it seems to sums up the negative images of deaf in the Hearing culture. The title is as follows: The Deaf Mute Howls. That title is a pretty loaded one.

 

[Bear]

Well if others are allowed to be sarcastic about others then I guess I will join on the bandwagon here.

All I can say is that I give up with some people around here. All they can see is speech speech speech and how superior it is compared to someone that signs.

Another thing I see is that someone has put the CI up on a *pedestal* and made it *god*.

While the CI is a useful tool, it isnt all that and more. And while speech is good in its own way, it is not all that and more.

Speech does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world. Being able to hear does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world.

But for those that cant see past speech and hearing, there is no arguement that will change them.

I give up on these threads but my own, as nothing we can say or do will show that sign has its values and all we are saying is that we are tired of having to defend our sign in favor of speech.

I guess to some people to *attract* more people to the deaf community, we would need to stop signing and all of us get implanted and go the oral only route *scoffs*. In other words eradicate the deaf community is what some are aiming for.

Just a thought. If we stopped replying to that same *mantra* then the trolls would have to go somewhere else.

 

[shel90]

Well if others are allowed to be sarcastic about others then I guess I will join on the bandwagon here.

All I can say is that I give up with some people around here. All they can see is speech speech speech and how superior it is compared to someone that signs.

Another thing I see is that someone has put the CI up on a *pedestal* and made it *god*.

While the CI is a useful tool, it isnt all that and more. And while speech is good in its own way, it is not all that and more.

Speech does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world. Being able to hear does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world.

But for those that cant see past speech and hearing, there is no arguement that will change them.

I give up on these threads but my own, as nothing we can say or do will show that sign has its values and all we are saying is that we are tired of having to defend our sign in favor of speech.

I guess to some people to *attract* more people to the deaf community, we would need to stop signing and all of us get implanted and go the oral only route *scoffs*. In other words eradicate the deaf community is what some are aiming for.

Just a thought. If we stopped replying to that same *mantra* then the trolls would have to go somewhere else.

I feel the same too...*sighs*

 

[Audiofuzzy]

So f what? My brother's speech is unintelligible but that doesnt mean Rachel is superior to him. My god..is that all u see? Literacy skills should be the first thing people look at not oral skills.

No of course Rachel is not superior to HIM but she does have, in a way, superior oral skills. Can't you see the difference? that's all there is to it.

I am sure Rachel didn't mean poorer oral skills makes anyone inferior human being, she simply meant if she haven't received her CI she would have had and unintelligible speech and harder time communicating with hearing pple, that's all. Not that she would be "stupid".


Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Perhaps not. But they will have superior language skills. That is far more benefit than oral skills.

I think it was established clearly and beyond any doubt that so far both girls have pretty good language development.



Rachel also has been studying French since 9th grade and is in AP French this year. In 11th grade, she received her school’s award for excellence in foreign language study. This award is given to one junior or senior each year out of about 800 students total. Recently, her French teacher entered her in a competition sponsored by the Foreign Language Association of Georgia. This was an oral only competition, testing the students’ conversational skills. Rachel participated in the advanced level and won a rating of superior from the judges, which is the highest possible rating.


If she is so good conversationally in French, I can only guess she is also good in English. That's language....

And Jessica has some additional learning disabilities due to her health problems WHICH should NOT be FORGOTTEN:

Ironically, it has not been Jessica’s hearing, speech, or language that have caused her any difficulties because she hears and speaks so well and has excellent language thanks to her early CI. However, she does have some minor learning disabilities that are associated with her vestibular issues.

It is mentioned Jessica has an excellent language, though.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Huh? Some deaf just CANT develop oral skills..my brother is a perfect example of that. U still dont get it and your comments are pissing me off cuz you r refusing to hold hearing people accountable for many of deaf children's delays in language. Hearing people started the oral programs, hearing people started the laws regarding to LRE, and all those educational policies. When deaf people give hearing people their views, it is usually disregarded. It has been happening for decades.

I admit that is too, the case but don't feel so good yet - I see here a lot of the same towards hearing pple. Hearing pple try to show you their POV and are rudely disregarded.

Fuzzy

 

[deafskeptic]

Well if others are allowed to be sarcastic about others then I guess I will join on the bandwagon here.

All I can say is that I give up with some people around here. All they can see is speech speech speech and how superior it is compared to someone that signs.

Another thing I see is that someone has put the CI up on a *pedestal* and made it *god*.

While the CI is a useful tool, it isnt all that and more. And while speech is good in its own way, it is not all that and more.

Speech does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world. Being able to hear does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world.

But for those that cant see past speech and hearing, there is no arguement that will change them.

I give up on these threads but my own, as nothing we can say or do will show that sign has its values and all we are saying is that we are tired of having to defend our sign in favor of speech.

I guess to some people to *attract* more people to the deaf community, we would need to stop signing and all of us get implanted and go the oral only route *scoffs*. In other words eradicate the deaf community is what some are aiming for.

Just a thought. If we stopped replying to that same *mantra* then the trolls would have to go somewhere else.

*Sigh* Nodding sadly.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Well if others are allowed to be sarcastic about others then I guess I will join on the bandwagon here.

All I can say is that I give up with some people around here. All they can see is speech speech speech and how superior it is compared to someone that signs.

Another thing I see is that someone has put the CI up on a *pedestal* and made it *god*.

While the CI is a useful tool, it isnt all that and more. And while speech is good in its own way, it is not all that and more.

Speech does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world. Being able to hear does not necessarily get you ahead in todays world.

But for those that cant see past speech and hearing, there is no arguement that will change them.

I give up on these threads but my own, as nothing we can say or do will show that sign has its values and all we are saying is that we are tired of having to defend our sign in favor of speech.

I guess to some people to *attract* more people to the deaf community, we would need to stop signing and all of us get implanted and go the oral only route *scoffs*. In other words eradicate the deaf community is what some are aiming for.

Just a thought. If we stopped replying to that same *mantra* then the trolls would have to go somewhere else.

Oh come on, stop exagerrating!

I can understand the emotions because seeying someone turning away from the deaf community and chosing hearing ways over feels like rejection, and rejection hurts, but come on nobody says *stop signing* just because some would like to see better oral programs available. What's wrong with better oral programs, anyway? can't one have a good oral program AND sign???

It was HERE mentioned many times that more and more pple opt for CI.
It's part of Deaf Culture now. So perhaps making some acommodations for these CI children wouldn't be such a bad thing, after all?


Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Just a thought. If we stopped replying to that same *mantra* then the trolls would have to go somewhere else.

Oh that is so nice. So, those with different opinions, they are just "trolls", unwanted here. The only ones "worthy" here are yes-sayers, then.
That's deep.

Fuzzy

 

[Bear]

And telling people that they have a problem with understanding standard english is nice and deep too eh Fuzzy?

Supporting a CI and the oral route is fine. But for someone that doesnt even have a CI to comment like they are all knowing about it is another story.

And futhermore, you do put the CI on a pedestal and the speech as the only way.

I dont think it goes to far to say that some would like to eradicate the deaf culture and have us all implanted and speaking!

thanks have a nice day!

 

[Jolie77]

Mod's Note:

This thread is closed for the meantime to cool it down. Whereas, For anyone to understand the english - Each and every one has their own way of understanding one or other. It does not mean that we are expected to have perfection in this area or any other area.