Twinkies is going out of business !

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Foxrac said:
Hey Steinhauer, time for you to agreement to disagreement.

It doesn't change my views with union and I support labor rights, so I disagree with your views. It isn't worth to start attacking and I just explained in my previous posts.

Enough with your label me as support destruction of jobs, so it isn't cool to label. :roll:
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I wasn't labeling you. I was stating a fact. There are no more labelers, they lost their jobs when the union destroyed them. Now, the Chinese do all the labeling.
 
Steinhauer said:
I wasn't labeling you. I was stating a fact. There are no more labelers, they lost their jobs when the union destroyed them. Now, the Chinese do all the labeling.
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It looks like you are not respect my belief with labor rights and you just labeled me as support destruction of jobs.

You need do more research and there are many things that hurt companies instead of blaming on unions.

I'm going stand my views in here until the thread gets locked up because you won't stop attacking against me.
 
Foxrac said:
It looks like you are not respect my belief with labor rights and you just labeled me as support destruction of jobs.

You need do more research and there are many things that hurt companies instead of blaming on unions.

I'm going stand my views in here until the thread gets locked up because you won't stop attacking against me.
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I am not attacking you. I am saying Unions destroy jobs.
 
Steinhauer said:
I am not attacking you. I am saying Unions destroy jobs.
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In bold - I disagree with you and it is unnecessary.

If you simply blame and point at unions as kill the jobs, so you are ignorant and anti-unions, but that's not my wish to label you because there are many reasons to kill the jobs.

There are many businesses went out of business here due to issue with financial, not unions because they are not unionized.
 
Foxrac said:
In bold - I disagree with you and it is unnecessary.

If you simply blame and point at unions as kill the jobs, so you are ignorant and anti-unions, but that's not my wish to label you because there are many reasons to kill the jobs.

There are many businesses went out of business here due to issue with financial, not unions because they are not unionized.
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But you are attacking me for my opinion. My opinion has not changed. I never attacked you, I simply said unions destroy jobs (and they do)
 
Steinhauer said:
But you are attacking me for my opinion. My opinion has not changed. I never attacked you, I simply said unions destroy jobs (and they do)
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No, you started attacking my belief and made repeat words say "the unions destroy jobs". You haven't make further thought and let look so hard.

CompUSA, Circuit City, Borders and Gallery Movies/Hollywood Video went out of business - the reason: the financial/management issue, not unions.
 
I remember - Kenny Rogers Roasters, and Steak and Ale went out of business due to management and financial issue.
 
Maybe we can sit down and share a twinkie and agree to disagree.

Except the union took away all the twinkies :(
 
Steinhauer said:
Maybe we can sit down and share a twinkie and agree to disagree.

Except the union took away all the twinkies :(
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Jiro said that Twinkies will be around when someone buy their brand from Hostess.

Like I said in earlier, Hostess is in middle of dispute over union vs. union. Teamster union approved the contract but bakery unions rejected. Hostess is private company and I don't understand why managers haven't fire any workers who went on strike, so many workers said it is more issue with management than bakery unions.

I'm not fan of Hostess brands.
 
If I own business and I will understand about how important is labor rights, so employees are welcome to form the union or not form the union, depends on ballot. The fair share will be based on profits and if any workers want make too far, too far, like unusual pay raise and very little profit so I have to decline the contract. If they goes strike so I will find a permanent replacement and terminate any employees went on strike like some companies did it.

The management is important key and it is my full responsibility to manage the business.
 
There was once that I remember vividly that there were steel mills on both side of Monongahela and Ohio river, stretching over 50 miles long, plus some along on Allegheny River and there was more than 28 Steel companies. Now we got only couple and these 50 miles stretch is long gone! Only 2 or 3 Open hearth furnace still there but not running. Why all gone? Simple, Unions pushed them too far to the point that companies decided its cheaper to pack and move out of USA, and that is fact and already happened.

I can get picture of before and after if you want me to. Its not that hard, since my mind is already mapped and know where to look for.

See highway in photo? That is where I always pass to go to Deaf school.
http://www.tubecityonline.com/almanac/images/110125a.jpg


Same spot but different shooting shot, and this is NOW
http://braddockyouth.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMGP1308.jpg

That mill is forever gone, thanks to Unions that wants 75 dollars an hour during 1970's while Japan offered a dollar an hour for labor. These unions ACTUALLY blamed the owners of steel mill for poor management, deciding which one to opt for labor that cost them 75 dollars per man hour verses a dollar per man hour, how can this be mismanaged? Labor in business generally number one most expensive of all expenses.

You as customer with any stores, you do the SAME thing with the owners of corporation and business. If you went to store A and wants to buy a huge flat screen TV and their price would say $1,000, then you go to Store B and for the same brand and model of TV, their asking price is $1,200 which one are you gonna buy? That is what is happening with corporations of all kinds.
Steinhauer said:
No, unions destroy American jobs. That is why steel is no longer produced in America and why we buy from Mexico or China.
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diehardbiker said:
There was once that I remember vividly that there were steel mills on both side of Monongahela and Ohio river, stretching over 50 miles long, plus some along on Allegheny River and there was more than 28 Steel companies. Now we got only couple and these 50 miles stretch is long gone! Only 2 or 3 Open hearth furnace still there but not running. Why all gone? Simple, Unions pushed them too far to the point that companies decided its cheaper to pack and move out of USA, and that is fact and already happened.

I can get picture of before and after if you want me to. Its not that hard, since my mind is already mapped and know where to look for.
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If it is union issue, why they didn't move to southern states?
 
Still labor in the south cost much more than elsewhere. What ever happened to Textile factories? South used to have the world largest clusters of textile factories, don't you know that? Not anymore :( And yes, there was textile unions, they died about 20 years ago. Now, ask yourself, is there a textile factory survived here in USA? Afraid none as of this moment.

Foxrac said:
If it is union issue, why they didn't move to southern states?
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And you will have ears with Banks all the time following up the performance of your company, they don't care about your employees but their money. Most business owners borrow money from banks in order to start up and run. Bank always wins, they have agreement with you and your bound and stuck with it.

I don't think Hostess is free of debts, so they would have to follow the lender/investors decisions. One example, I decided to sell all of my hostess stock and want my money back, Hostess is under obligation to pay me back unless they gotta to declare bankrupt and screw me.

Foxrac said:
If I own business and I will understand about how important is labor rights, so employees are welcome to form the union or not form the union, depends on ballot. The fair share will be based on profits and if any workers want make too far, too far, like unusual pay raise and very little profit so I have to decline the contract. If they goes strike so I will find a permanent replacement and terminate any employees went on strike like some companies did it.

The management is important key and it is my full responsibility to manage the business.
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diehardbiker said:
Still labor in the south cost much more than elsewhere. What ever happened to Textile factories? South used to have the world largest clusters of textile factories, don't you know that? Not anymore :( And yes, there was textile unions, they died about 20 years ago. Now, ask yourself, is there a textile factory survived here in USA? Afraid none as of this moment.
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No, I know about there are few steel companies still survived in northern states but I blame on federal government for being too far with environmental regulation - EPA that caused steel, iron, coal, etc went down. EPA did good job to improve the air quality but killed a lot of jobs, so more damage, that why I just want EPA to be loosen up.

In southern states, they have right to work law and you are not forced to join the union, unlike in northern states that where you can be forced to join the union and pay their dues. It is supposed to make easier for business to set in the southern states and I haven't think about how bad is union in textile factories, so I thought it supposed to be less ruthless because they were less likely to strike over labor dispute and the owners have power to fire the employees whoever went on strike. The southern states favor managers more than employees, it has been for many years and the state governors did deployed the national guards to force union workers went back to job, in around 100 years ago.

Now, most companies rather goes to oversea like China because they don't want taxes and government regulation (labor, environmental, safety) so put unions as small reason, just slice of pie.

The government regulations are obviously mandatory, so is taxes, but it isn't mandatory for companies to form the union because it is up to workers, so in states with weak union environment, you as manager have power to reject any contracts that demand by union workers and let them goes strike, so you just hire permanent placement so throw union workers whoever went on strike out.

There are many Korean and Japanese assembly plants in southern states because they are too difficult to form the union so it is part of advantage for companies.
 
It is true that unions are hurting business in some ways. Some business can survive, some do not it depends on how well their financial status goes.

Unions protect incompetent workers, making it difficult to fire them. Union people wants more money, and benefits hurting employers and passing the costs to customers. Incompetent workers who are slacking, and not doing jobs right making it difficult for customers that is hurting business.

It is mostly union's than management that is at fault in this. I've seen it plenty of times because I am union member doesn't mean I like union. I got joined when I was hired after high school and I've seen many negative effect not only on company but union people too. Both sides still get screwed in many ways so union doesn't always help people, it's all about money, money, money. Seniority is another issue and is not always fair to other people and also union takes money out of your pocket too, not only for representing you... some are for political funds too.

So you all have your opinions, and I have mine when I have seen it in my eyes.
 
deafdrummer said:
Yes, because if something along the lines of Greece were to happen, like all the workers striking and refusing to come back to work, then the gov't could die very quickly. Keep an eye on Greece to see what might be in store for the US down the road.

CrazyPaul, what is the punishment if you go striking anyway, since it's not just "against the agency's policy," but in fact illegal?
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Remember when airport tower employees were on strike, they were fired by Pres. Reagan because they violated the law. Same thing here.
 
diehardbiker said:
And you will have ears with Banks all the time following up the performance of your company, they don't care about your employees but their money. Most business owners borrow money from banks in order to start up and run. Bank always wins, they have agreement with you and your bound and stuck with it.

I don't think Hostess is free of debts, so they would have to follow the lender/investors decisions. One example, I decided to sell all of my hostess stock and want my money back, Hostess is under obligation to pay me back unless they gotta to declare bankrupt and screw me.
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I already know about that, so learned in college and my major is mostly business, small in IT. There is one most important to start the business is having a entrepreneur.

There are some businesses are financed by families instead of bank, so it is up to individuals to use personal finance or borrow money from bank. When any businesses pay the loan off so they become free from debt.
 
Well said!

Calvin said:
It is true that unions are hurting business in some ways. Some business can survive, some do not it depends on how well their financial status goes.

Unions protect incompetent workers, making it difficult to fire them. Union people wants more money, and benefits hurting employers and passing the costs to customers. Incompetent workers who are slacking, and not doing jobs right making it difficult for customers that is hurting business.

It is mostly union's than management that is at fault in this. I've seen it plenty of times because I am union member doesn't mean I like union. I got joined when I was hired after high school and I've seen many negative effect not only on company but union people too. Both sides still get screwed in many ways so union doesn't always help people, it's all about money, money, money. Seniority is another issue and is not always fair to other people and also union takes money out of your pocket too, not only for representing you... some are for political funds too.

So you all have your opinions, and I have mine when I have seen it in my eyes.
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