Trying to find the best school for my Daughter.

[Sunshine1]

Oh boyeee .. I'm so confusing and trying so hard to understand and the different of all kinds. Back in my time, we haven't heard of all kinds and nowdays too many can confusing all senior citizens. haha

I just emailed my friend who is a teacher aide at my high school and see if she've heard of bi bi program. It will take a couple days or so before I will hear from her.

Nope cuz TC uses whatever method , SEE, ASL, Sim-Com, oral, or CS. Sometimes, several methods are being used in the same program. I have seen a TC program..it is too confusing for some children and I dont believe in using SEE and Sim-Com for language development.

 

[shel90]

Oh boyeee .. I'm so confusing and trying so hard to understand and the different of all kinds. Back in my time, we haven't heard of all kinds and nowdays too many can confusing all senior citizens. haha

I know..people just keep inventing different kinds of systems to teach deaf kids. I just prefer to stick with the two real languages..ASL and English.

 

[Sunshine1]

Yea but a sign language is a sign language. Back in my time (60's/70's), they taught us English classes and also teachers used sign languages and orally too as well. When you say English, are you talking about both spoken and written? Right?

Well ... when I get into Chicago area, I will have to stop by and visit my high school to find out the update nowdays comparing back in my town anyway.

I know..people just keep inventing different kinds of systems to teach deaf kids. I just prefer to stick with the two real languages..ASL and English.

 

[shel90]

Yea but a sign language is a sign language. Back in my time (60's/70's), they taught us English classes and also teachers used sign languages and orally too as well. When you say English, are you talking about both spoken and written? Right?

Well ... when I get into Chicago area, I will have to stop by and visit my high school to find out the update nowdays comparing back in my town anyway.

ASL has its own grammatical rules and syntax while SEE and Sim-Com do not. PSE is in between..usually signed by people who are not native in ASL.

Yes, English in spoken and written form. We keep both languages separate unlike Sim-Com which is speaking while signing and usally both languages gets compromised. It would be like trying to speak Spanish and English in one sentence. It just doesnt work.

 

[loml]

Yes, I have attended a regional workshop on cueing that included a training session on how to use cueing.

Nice to see that there has been some information delivered to you regarding Cued Speech. Do you remember by chance if the presenter themselves were NCSA members or CS Instructors? The reason I ask this is that there are times whne individuals come to speak on subjects that they are not completely versed in. This can and does lead to misinformation.

I haven't met a cued speech user. A few years ago, our state set up one school for deaf and hoh students that focused on cued speech but I haven't met any of them in the local Deaf community.

Too bad that you haven't had the opportunity to actually meet face to face a a deaf individual who uses CS. I am not surprised that you have not met any through the local Deaf Community. The Deaf Community in my area is not very receptive to Cued Speech, personally I believe that many people are misinformed and believe that it is focusing on an oral approach. This Reba, from the NCSA perspective is not true, it is about literacy, language and inclusion.

I'm not opposed to using cueing techniques as a tool in oral training. I was just trying to explain to MasterofJune that cueing is not a language. Spoken and written English is a language. American Sign Language is a language.

My opinion is that cueing has a place in academic and therapeutic settings. I'm not convinced that it helps a child acquire language. I think it helps a child improve speech reading skills and pronunciation but that's not the same thing as acquiring language comprehension and expression.

But if a parent wants to establish communication with a deaf child at the earliest possible age, then sign language is the way to go.

Just my opinions. I expect MasterofJune will check these things out himself.

Perhaps some day you will attend a workshop and learn how to cue. I believe this is when individuals really understand what Cued Speech is, through learning the complete system, first hand from a certified Cued Speech instructor.

 

[Sunshine1]

Okay ... back in my time, I believe we and all teachers used PSE but there were some students who also used ASL. Teachers never corrected students in any kinds of sign languages, just important that students understand teachers during classes. When I entered NTID. whoaaa alot of students there used ASL (NO voice) and I couldn't understand them until I socialized with them and I picked it up quicky. Whew! And now I can undy any sign languages. Not sure about SEE or Sim-Com. It's hard for to undy what's that and the different. That's okay. Someday I will learn more. Yes English is important to learn cuz we will use it all the times for the rest of our lives!

ASL has its own grammatical rules and syntax while SEE and Sim-Com do not. PSE is in between..usually signed by people who are not native in ASL.

Yes, English in spoken and written form. We keep both languages separate unlike Sim-Com which is speaking while signing and usally both languages gets compromised. It would be like trying to speak Spanish and English in one sentence. It just doesnt work.

 

[Reba]

Oh boyeee .. I'm so confusing and trying so hard to understand and the different of all kinds. Back in my time, we haven't heard of all kinds and nowdays too many can confusing all senior citizens. haha

I just emailed my friend who is a teacher aide at my high school and see if she've heard of bi bi program. It will take a couple days or so before I will hear from her.

Bi-bi stands for "bilingual-bicultural". ASL is used as the primary language, and English is taught as a second language, with emphasis on literacy.

There's a lot more to it. That's just a very brief description.

 

[Reba]

Nice to see that there has been some information delivered to you regarding Cued Speech. Do you remember by chance if the presenter themselves were NCSA members or CS Instructors?

I don't remember; it's been several years.

Too bad that you haven't had the opportunity to actually meet face to face a a deaf individual who uses CS. I am not surprised that you have not met any through the local Deaf Community.

How does one meet a deaf cuer outside of a school setting?

Perhaps some day you will attend a workshop and learn how to cue. I believe this is when individuals really understand what Cued Speech is, through learning the complete system, first hand from a certified Cued Speech instructor.

Probably not. I already have a career.

 

[deafdyke]

rockdrummer,
Look into maybe having ur son be evaluated at ISD. Maybe they can give you some idears on placement etc. One good thing about Schools for the Deaf, is that even the bad ones tend to usually have a significent number of academic /high functioning students. (many special schools such as schools for the blind, tend to serve more multihandicapped/MR students)

 

[loml]

Probably not. I already have a career.

I wasn't suggesting CS as something for a career for you Reba, quite simply an opportunity to learn exactly what Cued Speech is.

 

[Reba]

I wasn't suggesting CS as something for a career for you Reba, quite simply an opportunity to learn exactly what Cued Speech is.

Since you said, "Perhaps some day you will attend a workshop and learn how to cue. I believe this is when individuals really understand what Cued Speech is, through learning the complete system, first hand from a certified Cued Speech instructor," I thought you expected me to actually use cueing.

Anyway, this is getting far afield of the original topic.

 

[jillio]

One more off topic post......

If the Deaf community is not receptive to CS, and the Deaf community is the community that CS is supposed to benefit, doesn't that state, quite clearly, that the Deaf community sees no benefit to yet another system invented by a hearing person? When are we going tostart listening to what the Deaf community has to say about their communication and educational needs? Who are the true experts here....NACS, or the Deaf indiviuals whose needs are being addressed?

 

[loml]

One more off topic post......

If the Deaf community is not receptive to CS, and the Deaf community is the community that CS is supposed to benefit, doesn't that state, quite clearly, that the Deaf community sees no benefit to yet another system invented by a hearing person? When are we going tostart listening to what the Deaf community has to say about their communication and educational needs? Who are the true experts here....NACS, or the Deaf indiviuals whose needs are being addressed?

You quite obviously are not familiar with the unique individuals who comprise the NCSA. As far as the Deaf Communities lack of receptiveness, I believe it is misinformation and fear.

If you were to take the opportunity to learn CS and understand it from a CS users percpective, then you would experience first hand what the system can and does for literacy, language and inclusion with deaf children, hearing children, children with Down Syndrome, ADD/ADHD and Autism, etc.

 

[jillio]

You quite obviously are not familiar with the unique individuals who comprise the NCSA. As far as the Deaf Communities lack of receptiveness, I believe it is misinformation and fear.

If you were to take the opportunity to learn CS and understand it from a CS users percpective, then you would experience first hand what the system can and does for literacy, language and inclusion with deaf children, hearing children, children with Down Syndrome, ADD/ADHD and Autism, etc.

And sign language has also been shown to benefit literacy, language and inclusion, hearing children, children with DS, ADD/ADHD, and Autism. And, its a complete lingusitic system, not a mode.

What makes the members of NCSA such unique individuals? That the majority are hearing individuals attempting to procsribe for Deaf/deaf needs? That isn't unique....it's been going on for centuries.

I see the Deaf communities lack of receptiveness not as fear and misinformation, but as knowing what their unigue needs are.

Quite frankly, learning CS would not benefit me in the least, because none of the students I communicate with on a daily basis, and none of the deaf/Deaf people I communicate with use CS for communication. They do, however, use ASL, so I find that to be much more useful for my purposes. I did not find CS to be useful in raising my son, as he was able to achieve academically and communicatively through a Bi-Bi approach. His educators did not use it, and his friends did not use it, and his speech therapist did not use it. No one he was ever in contact with used it. I did an extensive investigation of all the methods available, and found CS to be redudant in both communication and education. The same goal....literacy....could be accomplished through the use of ASL and English in written form.

Likewise, how would you address the article I posted in another of your CS threads by an adult CS user who advocates for raising children in a Bi-Bi atmosphere, and his statements that ASL provides knowledge of the world, while CS provides only phonetic decoding for English?

Perhaps we should get back to the topic at hand....a parent who is actively seeking to provide the best educational opportunity available for his deaf child, and the fact that he is seeking a Bi-Bi atmosphere for that child.

 

[Reba]

...Quite frankly, learning CS would not benefit me in the least, because none of the students I communicate with on a daily basis, and none of the deaf/Deaf people I communicate with use CS for communication. ...

Exactly.

 

[loml]

And sign language has also been shown to benefit literacy, language and inclusion, hearing children, children with DS, ADD/ADHD, and Autism. And, its a complete lingusitic system, not a mode.

This is true, as does CS. The major difference is Cued Speech "transfers" to printed word, sound by sound, visually, without the need to learn, a foreign language. It does not need to be conceptual, as children learn from expereince ie. books or hands on, the difference between peach and beach.

What makes the members of NCSA such unique individuals? That the majority are hearing individuals attempting to procsribe for Deaf/deaf needs? That isn't unique....it's been going on for centuries.

The NCSA members deaf and hearing, ASL users, SEEII users and Cued Speech users are dedicated to literacy. You are committed to literacy also, through you approach, but cannot accept the success of other approaches.

If ASL first (DOHA) individuals (hearing and deaf) ndividuals would take the time to learn how to cue, you would understand why the system is successful. As it is, what is continuosly stated are opinions regarding Cued Speech that are misinformed by people choosing not even willing to learn the system, taking only 16 - 20 hours out of your life to become informed.

I see the Deaf communities lack of receptiveness not as fear and misinformation, but as knowing what their unigue needs are

I do not agree.

Perhaps we should get back to the topic at hand....a parent who is actively seeking to provide the best educational opportunity available for his deaf child, and the fact that he is seeking a Bi-Bi atmosphere for that child.

CS and ASL are Bi-Bi atmospheres.

 

[flip]

Many of us understand the concept about CS, as it's easy to learn like loml tells us, even if we do not use it, so I doubt the problem is misinformation and fear. Though it gives me creeps to think about a deaf club where everyone use CS, as CS looks like a zombie version of spoken english. It probably are, too?

 

[jillio]

This is true, as does CS. The major difference is Cued Speech "transfers" to printed word, sound by sound, visually, without the need to learn, a foreign language. It does not need to be conceptual, as children learn from expereince ie. books or hands on, the difference between peach and beach.

ASL transfers to printed word, the learning of a strong L1 language facilitates such. And with ASL, children learn conceptually through exposure rather than directed instruction. One does not need hands on experience to learn concept through ASL. And if you are promoting literacy, then surely you understand that concept must come before language can be meaningful.

The NCSA members deaf and hearing, ASL users, SEEII users and Cued Speech users are dedicated to literacy. You are committed to literacy also, through you approach, but cannot accept the success of other approaches.

I have already stated that CS may be useful in teaching literacy skills. This has yet to be supported empirically, however. ASL use in teaching those skills relative to literacy and academic achievement however, has been supported empirically.

If ASL first (DOHA) individuals (hearing and deaf) ndividuals would take the time to learn how to cue, you would understand why the system is successful. As it is, what is continuosly stated are opinions regarding Cued Speech that are misinformed by people choosing not even willing to learn the system, taking only 16 - 20 hours out of your life to become informed.

Once again, why would I take the time to learn a system that I will not be able to utilize with my clients? I have no CS using clients, and my clients are deaf. Obviously, they don't think that CS is as useful to them for communication needs as is ASL, and I respect their viewpoint as the deaf individual. And, if you will check the resources I have posted in your numerous threads regarding CS, you will find that my opinion is not based on misinformation, but by both individuals who ahve used CS as well as empirical evidence.
I have taken many more than 16-20 in my quest to become informed. Waht you are asking is not that I, or anyone else become informed, but that we become Cuers.



I do not agree.

How about we ask the Deaf'deaf members of this board if they are afraid of CS? But, its quite probable that you would disagree with them, as well.
CS and ASL are Bi-Bi atmospheres.

No, English through print, and sometimes oral skills, and ASL are a Bi-Bi atmosphere. Perhaps you should take that 16-20 hours of which you speak and use it to inform yourself of Bi-Bi educational options. And, the fact that you claim that anyone can become fluent in CS in 16-20 hours is enough to produce skeptism, in and of itself. Always be wary of quick fixes. Perhaps that is another reason that CS, despite a 40 year history, is still not a widely used mode.

Now once again, let's get backtothe topic at hand rather than hikacking this thread as a way to spam CS claims.

 

[deafdyke]

loml, it seems that people who use Cued Speech as a primary means of communication are rarer then hen's teeth. It's a good tool to have on hand.............but maybe the "amazing results" simply are the result of very small sample sizes.

 

[shel90]

Yes, I have attended a regional workshop on cueing that included a training session on how to use cueing.

I haven't met a cued speech user. A few years ago, our state set up one school for deaf and hoh students that focused on cued speech but I haven't met any of them in the local Deaf community.

I'm not opposed to using cueing techniques as a tool in oral training. I was just trying to explain to MasterofJune that cueing is not a language. Spoken and written English is a language. American Sign Language is a language.

My opinion is that cueing has a place in academic and therapeutic settings. I'm not convinced that it helps a child acquire language. I think it helps a child improve speech reading skills and pronunciation but that's not the same thing as acquiring language comprehension and expression.

But if a parent wants to establish communication with a deaf child at the earliest possible age, then sign language is the way to go.

Just my opinions. I expect MasterofJune will check these things out himself.

I agree.

I tried to explain that in other threads about cueing but either I didnt explain it clearly or it wasnt taken seriously.