Trayvon Case Investigation

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I'd rather keep my piece secret until it's need. not advertising it.
 
I didn't mean for this to turn into an OC or CC debate. But I do feel it needs to be said that the first targetted as well.as the most consistently targetted are those law abiding citizens in gun free zones, or, people whom appear to be unarmed. Statistics have proven time and again that criminals prefer unarmed victims.
 
Steinhauer said:
I didn't mean for this to turn into an OC or CC debate. But I do feel it needs to be said that the first targetted as well.as the most consistently targetted are those law abiding citizens in gun free zones, or, people whom appear to be unarmed. Statistics have proven time and again that criminals prefer unarmed victims.
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five posts is not a debate dude

now

let's go back to pretending we are vigilante heros in a tuff guy flick


smilie_earlybronco.gif
 
Steinhauer said:
So can meth addicts, that is why I OC with a .45 in some areas. I am licensed to carry openly and concealed. I don't always carry. But some parts of town I won't even think of going without one.
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I've never heard of a license to OC. OC is for those without CCW license and anybody is free to OC depending on state laws but OC has more restrictions than CCW.

and if some parts of town make you want to pack a heat, why would you go there and put yourself in danger then? I would avoid it.
 
airportcop said:
Nothing about this means that Zimmerman is a cop wannabe. Maybe he is sick & tired of crime and wanted to do something about it. Maybe he thought he was protecting his neighborhood.
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ah! that sounds like a vigilantism!
 
Steinhauer said:
I didn't mean for this to turn into an OC or CC debate. But I do feel it needs to be said that the first targetted as well.as the most consistently targetted are those law abiding citizens in gun free zones, or, people whom appear to be unarmed. Statistics have proven time and again that criminals prefer unarmed victims.
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Alabama is open carry friendly state, however it is extremely rare to see citizens with open carry like saw about few in years and I think that CCW is much more common. Unlike open carry, CCW isn't detectable and we don't know if they have guns or not.
 
Steinhauer said:
I didn't mean for this to turn into an OC or CC debate. But I do feel it needs to be said that the first targetted as well.as the most consistently targetted are those law abiding citizens in gun free zones, or, people whom appear to be unarmed. Statistics have proven time and again that criminals prefer unarmed victims.
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what statistics?

and I just came across this interesting article.

Trayvon Martin case also about guns - CNN.com
A visitor looks at a Taurus revolver during the National Rifle Association's annual meeting Friday in St. Louis.
Editor's note: Jeanne Bishop is a criminal defense lawyer in Cook County, Illinois. Mark Osler is professor of law at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota and a former federal prosecutor.

(CNN) -- As criminal attorneys, we know that tragic cases very often bring festering social issues into public view. Bill Cosby was right: The Trayvon Martin case brings to the surface troubling questions not only about race but also about the role of handguns in our society.

Now that the shooter, George Zimmerman, has been charged with second-degree murder, his defense under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law will become the focus of discussion. This law is grounded in a factual error and a deeply flawed principle. The factual error is that a proliferation of handguns makes us safer. The flawed principle is that somehow the right to bear arms needs to be enlarged to a right to resolve disputes with guns.

The notion that guns make us safer is a fallacy. People with guns in their homes are much more likely to be killed with their own gun -- by accident, domestic violence or suicide -- than to use it ever against an intruder, according to Arthur Kellermann, writing in the New England Journal of Medicine. Similarly, people who carry guns are more likely to be shot and killed than those who are unarmed. A University of Pennsylvania study found that people carrying guns were 4.5 times more likely to be shot and 4.2 times more likely to be killed.

That study's author, Charles Branas, has speculated that one reason may be that guns give carriers a sense of empowerment that causes them to overreact in tense situations. That may be precisely what happened in the case of Zimmerman.

Florida's Stand Your Ground law changed the previous understanding of self-defense in a simple way. Traditionally, one could only claim self-defense if there was no reasonable chance to retreat from a situation where one felt threatened. The revised law says if you feel threatened with imminent great bodily harm, you may use force, including guns, against the person you find threatening, even if there is a reasonable opportunity to retreat. What this invites is the settling of personal disputes with guns, as evidenced by a 300% increase in the number of killings by private citizens justified by "self-defense" in Florida since the law passed.

Most murders involve young men, often as both shooter and victim, as in the Trayvon Martin case. Young men, of course, often get in conflicts where they are threatening one another: that is, where both of them are trying to scare the other with "imminent great bodily harm." Florida's law may allow one of those chest-bumping young men, without consequence, to end the mutual dispute by shooting the other dead on the street. When it is over, the only witness may be the shooter, and his version of events will presumptively control. There is no morality in this rule.

Cosby on the Trayvon Martin killing
Nothing in our Constitution even vaguely promotes the redress of grievances with guns; the "redress of grievances" clause of the First Amendment has nothing to with the "right to bear arms" described in the Second Amendment. Rather, what the Constitution protects is the ability to redress our grievances by petitioning our government.

There may be no more damning indictment of our society than this: We too often seem to be equipping our young men with the guns and excuses to kill one another, rather than the safe schools and knowledge it takes to frame a good and righteous petition.
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Jiro said:
I've never heard of a license to OC. OC is for those without CCW license and anybody is free to OC depending on state laws but OC has more restrictions than CCW.

and if some parts of town make you want to pack a heat, why would you go there and put yourself in danger then? I would avoid it.
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According to open carry website, Georgia requires citizen to be licensed to open carry.

http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html
 
Jiro said:
that's just confusing. well good thing I don't live in Georgia. I feel bad for John McNeil
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Yup, I notice that and I feel bad for John McNeil as well.

Do you find any flaws in gun laws in Alabama?
 
Foxrac said:
Yup, I notice that and I feel bad for John McNeil as well.

Do you find any flaws in gun laws in Alabama?
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I dunno much of Alabama gun laws but since I haven't heard some controversial incidents in news, I don't think so.
 
Jiro said:
I've never heard of a license to OC. OC is for those without CCW license and anybody is free to OC depending on state laws but OC has more restrictions than CCW.

and if some parts of town make you want to pack a heat, why would you go there and put yourself in danger then? I would avoid it.
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In my State, you must be licensed to carry.
 
Trayvon Martin's killer showed signs of injury: neighbors | Reuters


Police said Zimmerman, who has been charged with second-degree murder in the racially charged case, was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head and was treated by medics before being taken to Sanford police station after the February 26 shooting.

But public doubts were later raised by the release of a grainy surveillance video from the police station in which no injuries were readily visible.

Zimmerman later sought medical treatment for injuries including a broken nose, his former lawyers have said.

Jorge Rodriguez, Zimmerman's next-door neighbor, told Reuters that when he saw Zimmerman the day after the incident, "he had two big, butterfly bandages on the back of his head, and another big bandage...on the bridge of his nose." He was talking to a police detective in his driveway.

Rodriguez's wife Audria also said she saw the bandages and a third neighbor, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, agreed with the Rodriguez couple's account. "I saw two bandages on the back of his head, and his nose was all swollen up," said the witness, who had watched from a nearby second-floor window.
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medical records and eyewitness accounts from neighbors corraborate Zimmerman's account.
 
Steinhauer said:
Trayvon Martin's killer showed signs of injury: neighbors | Reuters




medical records and eyewitness accounts from neighbors corraborate Zimmerman's account.
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I haven't followed this thread closely, so you may have already addressed this. Do you believe Martin had the right to defend himself against someone if he perceived him to be a threat?

Just a question. We don't yet know what exactly happened, but we can infer it's possible Martin may have gotten the impression he was being followed, and in danger.
 
CSign said:
I haven't followed this thread closely, so you may have already addressed this. Do you believe Martin had the right to defend himself against someone if he perceived him to be a threat?

Just a question. We don't yet know what exactly happened, but we can infer it's possible Martin may have gotten the impression he was being followed, and in danger.
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I know that Martin's girlfriend claimed he had called her and said someone was following him. There is no recording of that conversation - just the data from the cellphone company that proves a call was made. There is no proof of what was said during the conversation - just testimony.

That only leads me to believe that if Martin really thought his life was in danger, he would have called 911.

and then ... there is this to contend with:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html


The teen was suspended from school three times
He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue
Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry
Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness
Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign
New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested
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It was also revealed that he might have attacked a bus driver, according to a Twitter account that it is claimed belonged to the teen.
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Steinhauer said:
I know that Martin's girlfriend claimed he had called her and said someone was following him. There is no recording of that conversation - just the data from the cellphone company that proves a call was made. There is no proof of what was said during the conversation - just testimony.

That only leads me to believe that if Martin really thought his life was in danger, he would have called 911.

and then ... there is this to contend with:


Trayvon Martin case: He was suspended three times and caught with 'burglary tool' | Mail Online
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The fact that he was "caught with a marijuana pipe" does not raise any red flags for me. Just because he may havesmoked weed doesn't automatically qualify him as a bad or violent person.

Also, you'll note that it said he was "allegedly" caught with a burglary tool, yet there is nothing to substantiate that claim. Also, I thought people were innocent until proven guilty, but in this case we don't even know if a crime actually occurred.

In terms of the graffiti and tardiness to school, perhaps he made some less than responsible choices. He was still a minor, on his way to becoming a man. Most people make less than desirable choices at one time or another in their youth. That doesn't make them bad people.
 
CSign said:
The fact that he was "caught with a marijuana pipe" does not raise any red flags for me. Just because he may havesmoked weed doesn't automatically qualify him as a bad or violent person.

Also, you'll note that it said he was "allegedly" caught with a burglary tool, yet there is nothing to substantiate that claim. Also, I thought people were innocent until proven guilty, but in this case we don't even know if a crime actually occurred.

In terms of the graffiti and tardiness to school, perhaps he made some less than responsible choices. He was still a minor, on his way to becoming a man. Most people make less than desirable choices at one time or another in their youth. That doesn't make them bad people.
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I am not saying Trayvon was a bad person. I am saying he made a mistake if he chose to violently confront Zimmerman.

If that was what he did, that made him a criminal. There are a lot of criminals that are not bad people.

It appears to me that he did confront Zimmerman in a violent manner, especially since his twitter post claims he punched a school bus driver. I don't think he had any boundaries.
 
Steinhauer said:
I know that Martin's girlfriend claimed he had called her and said someone was following him. There is no recording of that conversation - just the data from the cellphone company that proves a call was made. There is no proof of what was said during the conversation - just testimony.

That only leads me to believe that if Martin really thought his life was in danger, he would have called 911.

and then ... there is this to contend with:
The teen was suspended from school three times
He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue
Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry
Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness
Tearful parents say their son is now the victim of a smear campaign
New poll shows 73 percent of Americans think Zimmerman should be arrested
Click to expand...
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So he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag of women's jewelry? Guilty! Shoot him dead! Save the taxpayers from court fees! These hideous crimes surely deserve a death sentence without trial, don't you agree?

Oh wait, you are calling for a fair trial before anyone convicts the acknowledged shooter in this case; the fact he shot the boy is not even being questioned. Why does it not work the same way for the black teen male?
 
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