Trayvon Case Investigation

[kokonut]

Sad to see when people say that Zimmerman is a vigilante without even looking at all of the evidence first.

 

[Jiro]

Maybe that's the law in NJ. That's not the law in all the states.

there are laws in other states allowing somebody to take matters into their own hands like a vigilante?

however... in Florida, it's illegal. and Trayvon didn't break any law.

 

[Steinhauer]

there are laws in other states allowing somebody to take matters into their own hands like a vigilante?

however... in Florida, it's illegal. and Trayvon didn't break any law.

except when he slammed Zimmerman's head repeatedly in the pavement.

yeah, I know how hard the media tried to cover that up ... it was in vain.

 

[Jiro]

except when he slammed Zimmerman's head repeatedly in the pavement.

yeah, I know how hard the media tried to cover that up ... it was in vain.

as an aggressor or victim?

 

[Steinhauer]

as an aggressor or victim?

Think about that carefully.

A victim would not be on top of someone slamming their head repeatedly in the pavement.

 

[Reba]

there are laws in other states allowing somebody to take matters into their own hands like a vigilante?

however... in Florida, it's illegal. and Trayvon didn't break any law.

I didn't say being a vigilante.

Watching out for and helping other people, and protecting property is not vigilantism.

Vigilantism is being the judge, jury, and hangman.

That's not what I'm talking about.

 

[Jiro]

Think about that carefully.

A victim would not be on top of someone slamming their head repeatedly in the pavement.

A victim would be on top of someone carrying a gun, slamming his head repeatedly in the pavement. self-defense, you know.

 

[Jiro]

Watching out for and helping other people, and

that's fine with me.

1. when taking armed action against criminal harming or about to harm you, that's fine with me.
2. when taking armed action against criminal after witnessing a crime in progress, that's fine with me.
3. when saving a person being harmed by a criminal, that's fine with me. (same as #2)
4. when approaching a potentially dangerous situation that you felt was suspicious and took armed action against it, that's vigilantism.
5. when approaching a potentially dangerous situation that you felt was suspicious but no crime was committed by that person whom you thought was suspicious and you took armed action against it, that's either manslaughter or 2nd-degree murder or assault with deadly weapon.

an option that should be strongly encouraged before resorting to armed conflict - when suspecting a suspicious person, call a cop and your neighbor.

protecting property is not vigilantism.

certainly not a vigilantism because it's called castle doctrine.

 

[TXgolfer]

there are laws in other states allowing somebody to take matters into their own hands like a vigilante?

however... in Florida, it's illegal. and Trayvon didn't break any law.

Are you sure? I am pretty sure slamming someone's head on the concrete constitutes assault in most states. That is one of the claims. Of course we will have to wait for all of the evidence.

 

[TXgolfer]

A victim would be on top of someone carrying a gun, slamming his head repeatedly in the pavement. self-defense, you know.

Was the gun drawn or holstered when the head bashing began?

 

[TXgolfer]

that's fine with me.


5. when approaching a potentially dangerous situation that you felt was suspicious but no crime was committed by that person whom you thought was suspicious and you took armed action against it, that's either manslaughter or 2nd-degree murder or assault with deadly weapon.

But, according to at least one version of events.....Zimmerman didn't take armed action because someone looked suspicious. He took armed action on someone who was assaulting him.

 

[Reba]

From dictionary.com:

vig·i·lan·te

   [vij-uh-lan-tee]


noun 1. a member of a vigilance committee.

2. any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.



adjective 3. done violently and summarily, without recourse to lawful procedures: vigilante justice.

 

[Jiro]

Are you sure?

are you?

I am pretty sure slamming someone's head on the concrete constitutes assault in most states.

and I'm pretty sure that it's allowable for self-defense reason.

That is one of the claims.

Right. How unfortunate that Trayvon isn't available to dispute otherwise.

Of course we will have to wait for all of the evidence.

Right. That's why you shouldn't bother asking me any of the questions above unless you know for sure.

 

[Jiro]

From dictionary.com:

vig·i·lan·te

   [vij-uh-lan-tee]


noun 1. a member of a vigilance committee.

2. any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.



adjective 3. done violently and summarily, without recourse to lawful procedures: vigilante justice.

correct.

Zimmerman: OK. These assholes. They always get away. When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

fast-forward to approximately one minute later...

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]

smells like vigilantism. I, of course, am open to hearing Zimmerman's version at trial.

 

[Reba]

"Taking the law into one's own hands and attempting to effect justice according to one's own understanding of right and wrong; action taken by a voluntary association of persons who organize themselves for the purpose of protecting a common interest, such as liberty, property, or personal security; action taken by an individual or group to protest existing law; action taken by an individual or group to enforce a higher law than that enacted by society's designated lawmaking institutions; private enforcement of legal norms in the absence of an established, reliable, and effective law enforcement body."

Vigilantism legal definition of Vigilantism. Vigilantism synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[Jiro]

"Taking the law into one's own hands and attempting to effect justice according to one's own understanding of right and wrong; action taken by a voluntary association of persons who organize themselves for the purpose of protecting a common interest, such as liberty, property, or personal security; action taken by an individual or group to protest existing law; action taken by an individual or group to enforce a higher law than that enacted by society's designated lawmaking institutions; private enforcement of legal norms in the absence of an established, reliable, and effective law enforcement body."

Vigilantism legal definition of Vigilantism. Vigilantism synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

correct.

As far as I'm concerned, Trayvon didn't commit any crime prior to encounter with Zimmerman.

 

[Reba]

...smells like vigilantism. I, of course, am open to hearing Zimmerman's version at trial.

A vigilante seeks to punish a suspected lawbreaker without due process.

Where is there proof or even the accusation that Zimmerman was seeking to punish a suspected lawbreaker without due process? Where is the proof that Zimmerman was stalking Martin with the intention of punishing him by shooting him to death?

If Zimmerman truly was a vigilante, he would have never called the police. He would have stalked and killed Martin, then left the scene, without ever calling the police.

 

[Reba]

correct.

As far as I'm concerned, Trayvon didn't commit any crime prior to encounter with Zimmerman.

I didn't say that Martin committed any crime prior to encountering Zimmerman.

The point is, there is no indication that Zimmerman was stalking Martin in order to kill him. That would be a vigilante murder.

 

[TXgolfer]

aRight. That's why you shouldn't bother asking me any of the questions above unless you know for sure.

Actually, it's why I should.

 

[TXgolfer]

correct.



fast-forward to approximately one minute later...



smells like vigilantism. I, of course, am open to hearing Zimmerman's version at trial.

911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]

Not really