Tookie the Crips leader is dead....

[Heath]

Hi, I stayed up last night and watched the execution of Tookie on t.v. news. I am glad Tookie the Crips leader died on California Death Row. Gangs are no good and cause Deaf community many problems with gang signs because they have sick and evil egos, armed robbery and murder.

ASL ( American Sign Language ) is a language of love respect and communication.

Gang signs is a language of hate , put down dis-respects and mean talk and murder.

See related article...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051213/pl_nm/crime_execution_tookie_dc_29

 

[apathrev]

"Gang signs" are not a language. They're simply hand gestures, much like that that a sports team's fans will use.

You're glad that someone who reformed himself and spoke out against youth in gangs was executed? Are you aware Stanley Williams was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for authoring of anti-gang children's books? He even renounced his affiliation with the Crips gang. All through this, he still maintained his innocence. I'd advise you in renting the movie, "Redemption," starring Jamie Fox.

 

[Heath]

Why don't you focus on the facts?

This is what took place in the real life courtroom and the decision passed down. I do not base my opinions on Hollywood movies. I prefer to base it on real life evidence. Prisoners have been known to fake good behavior then get out and commit crimes all over again. He is the leader of the Crips gang plus the Governor of California said Tookie never said he was sorry.

Monday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied Williams' request for clemency, suggesting that his supposed change of heart was not genuine because he had not shown any real remorse for the killings committed by the Crips.

"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption."

Schwarzenegger said the evidence of Williams' guilt was "strong and compelling." Witnesses at Williams' trial said he boasted about the killings, saying: "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him."

7-Eleven Shooting

Prosecutors said Williams, after a night of smoking drugs, shot a 26-year-old 7-Eleven convenience store clerk twice in the back after forcing him to lie face down in a storage room. Williams and accomplices stole $120 during a February 1979 robbery, police said.

About two weeks later Williams broke down a door at a Los Angeles motel and killed the 76-year-old owner, his 63-year-old wife and their 43-year-old daughter before taking $100, prosecutors said. They said shotgun shells recovered from both scenes came from Williams's gun and witnesses testified that Williams said he was the killer. Williams was convicted in 1981.

We're pleased that Governor Schwarzenegger did not turn a blind eye to the fact the four people were brutally murdered,'' said Harriet Salarno, president of Crime Victims United of California.

It was the third time Schwarzenegger denied a clemency request since taking office in 2003. His decision was praised by victims' rights groups. California voters by a 68 percent majority support the death penalty.

Williams, 51, co-founder of the Crips gang who was on death row for murdering four people in 1979, died at 12:35 a.m. after receiving a lethal dose of drugs at San Quentin State Prison

 

[DreamDeaf]

Heath -

How un-Christian of you for being happy that someone is dead.

Shame on you.

 

[Autumn Tree]

Tookie said he had changed and was no longer involved with gangs anymore...and he was doing something worthwhile, like writing books warning children to stay away from gangs. I thought it sounded pretty good to me. He kept saying he was innocent, but I guess nobody in higher places listened to him. :/

 

[Banjo]

I don't believe in capital punishment. I don't believe it should be up to any human beings to make the decision to sentence a person to death. Even if they're elected to do so because they are still human beings.

We are not worthy of making such a decision.

Even God wouldn't hear of it. After all, the only one who can sentence a person to death is the one with a sinless soul and that was Jesus Christ who was sentenced to death by human beings many, many years ago.

We do have the power to put people to death, but we cannot make the death sentences justifiable. The closest a death can be justified is self-defense but none are ever fully justified.

 

[Banjo]

He kept saying he was innocent, but I guess nobody in higher places listened to him. :/

Everybody in prison says they're innocent. So it's hard to believe them.

 

[Reba]

...You're glad that someone who reformed himself and spoke out against youth in gangs was executed?

He didn't reform. He never said that he was sorry for cruelly killing innocent people. He continued to cause problems in prison.

Are you aware Stanley Williams was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for authoring of anti-gang children's books?

Are you aware that many people are easily nominated for Nobel prizes. That doesn't mean they deserve them. Few actually win them.

He even renounced his affiliation with the Crips gang.

He never turned in the other guilty members.

All through this, he still maintained his innocence.

He only started pushing the "I am innocent" line when he tried to escape the death penalty. He bragged about the killings to other people.

I'd advise you in renting the movie, "Redemption," starring Jamie Fox.

I don't think fictional movies are good sources for facts.

I rather suggest you read the transcripts or watch the interviews of Mrs. Owens, the mother of one of his victims.

 

[Heath]

Heath -

How un-Christian of you for being happy that someone is dead.

Shame on you.

No not really, Let's say for example....God forbid your father worked in a store manning the cash register and armed robbers burst through the doors and your father obeyed their commands then was shot in the back cold blooded execution style. The bad guy is jailed then fast forward to 30 years later. He is marched to death row lethal injection. How would you feel as the 30 years loss of your own Dad to help, advise and make sure you are okay overwhelms you all over again?

I should have said it more clearly ...

On one hand , I am not happy some guy died and on another hand I am happy an evil man is dead.

There are different kinds and levels of happiness.

 

[apathrev]

Why don't you focus on the facts?

This is what took place in the real life courtroom and the decision passed down. I do not base my opinions on Hollywood movies.

A movie based on the account of a journalist who was just as skeptical as you are when she began working with him.

I prefer to base it on real life evidence. Prisoners have been known to fake good behavior then get out and commit crimes all over again.

What evidence do you have to support this statement?

He is the leader of the Crips gang plus the Governor of California said Tookie never said he was sorry.

He WAS the leader. He has since renounced his involvement with the founding of the gang. Here is the apology that he publicly posted on his website for his involvement with gangs.

Twenty-five years ago when I created the Crips youth gang with Raymond Lee Washington in South Central Los Angeles, I never imagined Crips membership would one day spread throughout California, would spread to much of the rest of the nation and to cities in South Africa, where Crips copycat gangs have formed. I also didn't expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men.

Raymond was murdered in 1979. But if he were here, I believe he would be as troubled as I am by the Crips legacy.

So today I apologize to you all -- the children of America and South Africa -- who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.

As a contribution to the struggle to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality, I have written the Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series. My goal is to reach as many young minds as possible to warn you about the perils of a gang lifestyle.

I am no longer "dys-educated" (disease educated). I am no longer part of the problem. Thanks to the Almighty, I am no longer sleepwalking through life.

I pray that one day my apology will be accepted. I also pray that your suffering, caused by gang violence, will soon come to an end as more gang members wake up and stop hurting themselves and others.

I vow to spend the rest of my life working toward solutions.

Amani (Peace),

Stanley "Tookie" Williams, Surviving Crips Co-Founder,
April 13, 1997

An apology for crimes he maintains he did not commit would obviously imply guilt.

Monday, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied Williams' request for clemency, suggesting that his supposed change of heart was not genuine because he had not shown any real remorse for the killings committed by the Crips.

"Is Williams' redemption complete and sincere, or is it just a hollow promise?" Schwarzenegger wrote. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption."

Schwarzenegger said the evidence of Williams' guilt was "strong and compelling." Witnesses at Williams' trial said he boasted about the killings, saying: "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him."

Governor Schwarzenegger is a pro-capital punishment politician. Of course he would make such statements to defend his case. His reasoning for not offering clemency is basically "because Tookie maintains his innocence."

We're pleased that Governor Schwarzenegger did not turn a blind eye to the fact the four people were brutally murdered,'' said Harriet Salarno, president of Crime Victims United of California.

Didn't Jesus teach mercy and forgiveness?

It was the third time Schwarzenegger denied a clemency request since taking office in 2003.

You are aware that Governor Schwarzenegger is pro-choice aren't you? Add that to this statistic and it seems you have a man that revels in death.

His decision was praised by victims' rights groups. California voters by a 68 percent majority support the death penalty.

This is from a March 2004 poll. Only information I can find is that it was directed by Mark DiCamillio. There's no information available on the samples.

 

[deafdyke]

Yes, he killed people but it's not like he was a mass murderer or a child molester! For crying out loud......we're talking about poor black kids who deal drugs to try to surmount poverty. Hey.....he may be guilty,he might be innocent. I'm not judging him. But at least he tried to do work to prevent other kids from falling in the gang trap!

 

[Heath]

I don't believe in capital punishment. I don't believe it should be up to any human beings to make the decision to sentence a person to death. Even if they're elected to do so because they are still human beings.

We are not worthy of making such a decision.

Even God wouldn't hear of it. After all, the only one who can sentence a person to death is the one with a sinless soul and that was Jesus Christ who was sentenced to death by human beings many, many years ago.

We do have the power to put people to death, but we cannot make the death sentences justifiable. The closest a death can be justified is self-defense but none are ever fully justified.

The state of California is your legal means of self defense when a life threatening situation is not right now !!! You understand?

 

[Reba]

As the 26-year-old [Albert Owens] was sweeping the store's parking lot in the early morning of Feb. 28, 1979, four men went into the store. Owens followed them inside.

One of the men, Stanley Tookie Williams, pointed a shotgun at Owens and directed him to lie down on the floor of a walk-in refrigerator at the back of the store.

While his accomplices took $120 from the register, Williams chambered a round into his shotgun and fired into the security monitor.

He chambered a second round and fired it into Owens's back as he lay face down on the floor. Before leaving, he shot Owens again.

According to the accomplices-turned-witnesses, Owens begged for his life before being murdered. After shooting Owens, Williams joked about the gurgling sounds the young man made as he lay dying on the floor.

Eleven days later, Williams robbed the Brookhaven Motel on Vermont Avenue in Los Angeles, where he murdered live-in owners Yen-I Yang, 76, his wife, Tsai-Shai Yang, 63, and their daughter Yee-Chen Lin, 43.

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_3285648

 

[Heath]

A movie based on the account of a journalist who was just as skeptical as you are when she began working with him.

What evidence do you have to support this statement?

He WAS the leader. He has since renounced his involvement with the founding of the gang. Here is the apology that he publicly posted on his website for his involvement with gangs.



An apology for crimes he maintains he did not commit would obviously imply guilt.



Governor Schwarzenegger is a pro-capital punishment politician. Of course he would make such statements to defend his case. His reasoning for not offering clemency is basically "because Tookie maintains his innocence."



Didn't Jesus teach mercy and forgiveness?



You are aware that Governor Schwarzenegger is pro-choice aren't you? Add that to this statistic and it seems you have a man that revels in death.



This is from a March 2004 poll. Only information I can find is that it was directed by Mark DiCamillio. There's no information available on the samples.

HE NEVER APOLOGIZED DIRECTLY TO THE FAMILIES WHO ARE THE REAL VICTIMS THE 4 VICTIMS...AND YES JESUS CHRIST TEACHES FORGIVENESS AND THERE ARE NATURAL CONQUENSCES TO EVERYTHING SOMEBODY DOES GOOD OR BAD. LIBERALS LOVE TO SEPERATE THE TWO BUT IN REALITY THEY BOTH GO HAND IN HAND TOGETHER.

 

[Reba]

Yes, he killed people but it's not like he was a mass murderer or a child molester!

Killing four people isn't enough for you? How many people does someone have to kill in cold blood to be a "mass murderer" to you?

Look at these pictures:

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html

 

[apathrev]

He didn't reform. He never said that he was sorry for cruelly killing innocent people. He continued to cause problems in prison.

Yes, he continued to cause problems until 1993.

Are you aware that many people are easily nominated for Nobel prizes. That doesn't mean they deserve them. Few actually win them.

Its more of an accomplishment than most people recieve. He's been nominated every single year since 2005. And again, I was pointing out the reason why he as nominated. Not just the fact he has nominated.

He never turned in the other guilty members.

I don't see that as relevant.

He only started pushing the "I am innocent" line when he tried to escape the death penalty. He bragged about the killings to other people.

Everyone maintains their innocence. He may of bragged about the killings, but I can't come up with any direct quotes or sources.

I don't think fictional movies are good sources for facts.

It's a movie based on Barbara Becnel's account of when she met with Stanley William's while writing a history on the Crips. Have you seen it?

 

[Heath]

"Gang signs" are not a language. They're simply hand gestures, much like that that a sports team's fans will use.

My God , use common sense. Deaf people are tired of crime. Gang signs are not meant for sports.

Gang signs are meant to murder kill steal lie, cover up , signals to sell drugs or signals that the police are coming and to disrespect rival gangs and gang signs are used during the commission of armed robbery.

The Crips is a street gang which originated in Los Angeles, California in the late 1960s. During the early 1970s, the gang grew and branched out to other parts of Los Angeles County. These new subsidiary or realigned existing gangs were known as sets, and they used the term Crips in their individual gang name.

Crips usually identify with the color blue in several different shades and usually wear a blue rag or handkerchief as an identity item. They often wear jogging suits and tennis shoes, professional sports team jackets and caps bearing the names of Los Angeles teams, and sometimes Adidas sweatshirts. They also may wear Dickey brand cotton work pants or bib-style overalls. Nike and British Knights shoes are also popular.

Crips refer to each other as "Cuzz" and use the letter C to replace the letter B in their conversations and writings. They have an intricate communication system which involves not only graffiti on walls which mark their particular territorial boundaries, but also the use of hand signals (flashing), displaying their colors, and wearing selected athletic clothing. The initials BK represent their status as "Blood Killers."

Crips seldom wear tattoos, and their graffiti represents past or future gang activity.Crips gangs are found in nearly every city in the United States and have been identified in several foreign countries.The most prominent traits of Crips are individualism and maintaining a commitment to foster violence upon other gangs. The Crips rivalry with the Bloods gang presents a likelihood of violent encounters between members.

For a short time, a small group of gang members claimed the word Crip was an acronym for "Community Revolution In Progress." This was an attempt to gain public sympathy as they mimicked the many other gangs who attempted to make similar false claims. Despite their temporary claim of being a peaceful organization, the gang is still heavily involved in urban warfare, drug sales and recently violent take-over robberies and warehouse burglaries.

The C-walk, a tiptoe dance that some people joke looks like skipping "hopscotch on crack," has caught on among teenagers nationwide.

some in Los Angeles are banning it from campus parties and proms. The C, after all, stands for Crips, a name supposedly spelled out in foot motions of some C-walkers.

"The Crip walk is a no-no."

"We tell students you might be somewhere doing that dance and it could end your life, or get you seriously hurt,"

Hard to Distinguish

The Crip walk, which is most popular among African American teenagers, is more difficult to crack down on because it is not blatantly offensive like sexual dancing, and many adults can't distinguish it from other hip-hop moves, such as the clown walk, old man walk, toe walk, Carlton walk, heel to toe, and Harlem shake. Plus, many adults aren't aware of the dance's history.

Still, some say the Crip walk must be taken seriously, especially in Los Angeles, because of the dance's gang roots. There are hundreds of Crips spinoffs and copycat gangs in Los Angeles County and throughout the world. Law enforcement officials say Crips gang members are responsible for thousands of deaths and shootings.

Crips culture has become a part of popular movies and music. Rapper Snoop Dogg, a former member of the Crips, is well known for throwing up gang signs and C-walking in his videos. The 15-year-old rapper Lil Bow Wow has also been known to do an offshoot of the Crip walk during performances

Gang lore has it that Crips do the C-walk after shooting or killing someone, said a detective with the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department and president of the National Alliance of Gang Investigators Assns.

In Internet chat rooms, teenagers beg for tips on how to perfect the moves, while others share stories about C-walking at parties and school dances or during after-school dance-offs called "battles." But on the Web site www.breakdance.com, one wrote: "Why do you all wanna do this walk? It's not a dance, it's a gang sign. If you all ain't reppin' 4 tha blue then watch where you walk." Blue is traditionally a Crip color

"Crip walking is not done for fun. It is done to make a statement," he said.

Teachers and parents should be alarmed if a student does the Crip walk because it may be an indication that he or she is at risk of joining a gang, he said.

 

[diehardbiker]

Well, it is now pointless to aruge over Tookie execution. It is DONE, and case closed, period. There is no way going back anyway.

I am in neither spot at this time. I used to believe in capital punishment, and STILL am. I think they were intended to inform the society of harsh consequences if one decided to take somebody's life. Almost immediately after the reinstatement of capital punishment, we begin to see sharp decline in murder rate.

Problem here I see, is it JUSTIFICABLE for someone to take somebody's life and get away from them? Living in jail is way too easy for most of criminals these days. Free rent, free food, free loafing time, free education, free whatever prison have to offer, while innocent have to work to earn their living. Plus these hard working, honest citizen is paying dearly for these crooks in prison! Ain't that fair, or ain't that humane to all? I am sorry, but I think Americans is being too lenient for criminals. Capital punishment seems to be a good deterrent to future murders, BUT NOT ENOUGH!

I also believe that we need a SERIOUS correctional reform! These prison is just a gateway for laidback lifestyle. Isn't it time for government quitting being too lenient and start the harsh punishment, like good o'le boot camp where there is no loafing around, just long day of hard working with minimal breaks? I can bet that once the long day of hard working becomes standard, crime rate will DROP like a rock!

 

[apathrev]

My God , use common sense. Deaf people are tired of crime. Gang signs are not meant for sports. Gang signs are meant to murder kill steal lie, cover up , signals to sell drugs or signals that the police are coming and to disrespect rival gangs and gang signs are used during the commission of armed robbery.

I never said they were meant for sports. Learn to use context.

I'm just going to let your statements resonate with everyone here.

At least Reba credits her sources.

 

[DreamDeaf]

No not really, Let's say for example....God forbid your father worked in a store manning the cash register and armed robbers burst through the doors and your father obeyed their commands then was shot in the back cold blooded execution style. The bad guy is jailed then fast forward to 30 years later. He is marched to death row lethal injection. How would you feel as the 30 years loss of your own Dad to help, advise and make sure you are okay overwhelms you all over again?

You're asking the wrong person. My family has had its share of death by violence. Yet in all that, we have never pushed for the death penalty for those people who have killed members of the family - we have asked for life in prison without parole.

Remember the 6th Commandment: Thou shalt not kill.