to those BORN with severe-profound hearing loss

[deafdyke]

It sounds like you need to take your daughter and the FM system to the audiologist. It obviously shouldn't be doing that.

well you know, technology breaks and can be unreliable...and it's like...why the heck should a dhh kid be tethered to a mic?

 

[CSign]

Excellent, excellent point! Technology is good and all, but at home usage of an FM just seems to imply that a kid should be trained to rely exclusively on technology, and that they cannot function without it. it's awesome to be unplugged and not have to deal with mics, or other hardware.

I don't agree that it implies that they need to rely exclusively on technology. It's just another tool in the box. I don't think the FM system is the most amazing thing in the world, but it certainly has many benefits. And yes, it has drawbacks too- but the key is learning to use it so that it's advantageous rather than disadvantageous. For example, it is written explicitly in my son's IEP that the teacher only uses it for direct instruction.. In other words, if she's doing anything other than communicating directly with my son, or teaching the entire class something, the FM is on mute.

Another example of potential benefits of an FM is that some students improve on their speech and articulation skills after having consistent use of it for a period of time.

It is an assistive technology device- just like everything else. It has it's benefits and it's drawbacks.

 

[CSign]

well you know, technology breaks and can be unreliable...and it's like...why the heck should a dhh kid be tethered to a mic?

Right. All technology can break and is not 100% reliable. I must have missed the post that said deaf children should be tethered to a mic (or boots in the case of an FM).

 

[Jane B.]

A bit off topic but the people in this thread seem to be familiar with today's tech.

How does it do for receiving in different facilities when they have systems from different companies? For example with my old hearing aid that has a T-coil setting I can simply turn to that, put on the neckloop that I own personally (by the way, that neckloop does NOT use yet another battery!), plug the neckloop into the receiver from whatever brand system the facility has and listen. How do you handle these situations with boots, etc. I am under the impression they are to take the place of the plain neckloop.

 

[deafdyke]

I don't agree that it implies that they need to rely exclusively on technology. It's just another tool in the box. I don't think the FM system is the most amazing thing in the world, but it certainly has many benefits. And yes, it has drawbacks too- but the key is learning to use it so that it's advantageous rather than disadvantageous. For example, it is written explicitly in my son's IEP that the teacher only uses it for direct instruction.. In other words, if she's doing anything other than communicating directly with my son, or teaching the entire class something, the FM is on mute.

Another example of potential benefits of an FM is that some students improve on their speech and articulation skills after having consistent use of it for a period of time.

It is an assistive technology device- just like everything else. It has it's benefits and it's drawbacks.

you're talking about in classroom use. I think it CAN be useful in the classroom. but again, it most likely depends on the kid. WhatI do not like is the assumption that FM should be an accommodation for ALL hoh kids in the classroom. i also dont agree that the teacher is the MOST important person to listen to. An education teaches you to think critically. In order to do that, you need to listen to the instructor, but ALSO the other students. Ever hear of incentental learning? That is actually even more important then leciture style learning.However I was speaking of out of classroom use.
I think out of classroom use basically tethers a kid to a mic, and also doesn't acknowledge there are many many other ways to function, besides being tethered to a cord.

 

[CSign]

you're talking about in classroom use.
No, I'm not referring only to use in the classroom.
I think it CAN be useful in the classroom. but again, it most likely depends on the kid. WhatI do not like is the assumption that FM should be an accommodation for ALL hoh kids in the classroom. i also dont agree that the teacher is the MOST important person to listen to.
Really? So, why do we have teachers if they aren't of value to the students?
An education teaches you to think critically. In order to do that, you need to listen to the instructor, but ALSO the other students. Ever hear of incentental learning? That is actually even more important then leciture style learning.
No, I haven't heard of incentental learning- unless you meant incidental learning. If that's the case, I agree incidental learning is important. But I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say it's more important than the teachers lectures... An FM system should have no impact one way or another on a student benefitting from incidental learning so long as it's used appropriately.
However I was speaking of out of classroom use.
I think out of classroom use basically tethers a kid to a mic, and also doesn't acknowledge there are many many other ways to function, besides being tethered to a cord.

What is this obsession with being tethered to a cord? FM systems these days don't have any cords to tether the child to. Like I said, it's just another tool in the box.

 

[Bottesini]

What is this obsession with being tethered to a cord? FM systems these days don't have any cords to tether the child to. Like I said, it's just another tool in the box.

I think it is like "cut the apron strings". Not literal , but calling for autonomy for the child and freedom to play and be a child.

 

[CSign]

Good points indeed! All too often School Districts will deny the request banking on the assumption that the parents will neither push back nor be versed enough on the relevant laws and regulations.
Rick

Exactly.

 

[CSign]

I think it is like "cut the apron strings". Not literal , but calling for autonomy for the child and freedom to play and be a child.

I am in full support of allowing the child to learn to be autonomous and independent. I just don't agree that an FM system hinders that independence. It's also important to consider that not all families sign at home. If the child is receiving auditory input only, an FM makes that communication easier to get receptive language if it is being used.

I know a family (who did sign at home), that began to use the FM at home and in the car. The daughter had significant improvements in her speech and articulation in the few months the parents had been using it.

It does have its benefits... I'm not encouraging its use 100% of the time. Only for parents and caregivers to be aware and be open to using it in certain situations in which they deem would be beneficial for the child.

 

[AlleyCat]

I think it is like "cut the apron strings". Not literal , but calling for autonomy for the child and freedom to play and be a child.

Exactly. I think that was the whole point DD was making.

 

[deafdyke]

What is this obsession with being tethered to a cord? FM systems these days don't have any cords to tether the child to. Like I said, it's just another tool in the box.

FOA, I never said that teachers aren't of value to the students. I said that teachers aren't the only ones that kids learn from. Something like 90% of learning is incidental(ie not a result of direct instruction from the teacher) The FM basically tethers a kid to a mic (figure of speech)... You know, a kid could benifit just as much from say sitting in front of the classroom, or even a different seating set up.

 

[deafdyke]

Or even better, how about Soundfields in all classrooms?

 

[deafdyke]

I am in full support of allowing the child to learn to be autonomous and independent. I just don't agree that an FM system hinders that independence. It's also important to consider that not all families sign at home. If the child is receiving auditory input only, an FM makes that communication easier to get receptive language if it is being used.

I know a family (who did sign at home), that began to use the FM at home and in the car. The daughter had significant improvements in her speech and articulation in the few months the parents had been using it.

It does have its benefits... I'm not encouraging its use 100% of the time. Only for parents and caregivers to be aware and be open to using it in certain situations in which they deem would be beneficial for the child.

That is bc you're not seeing that the simple use of an fm device in non academic situations, is basically saying " you need to listen, listen listen, and you can't function without using this ALD. the most important thing is to listen, listen listen. We're too lazy/uncreative to think of alternative ways of you function ing without hearing, hearing, hearing all the time. Like yeah, it might be good for use in speech therapy, but mostofmth time speech therapy is an in school service.

 

[Cloggy]

That is bc you're not seeing that the simple use of an fm device in non academic situations, is basically saying " you need to listen, listen listen, and you can't function without using this ALD. the most important thing is to listen, listen listen. We're too lazy/uncreative to think of alternative ways of you function ing without hearing, hearing, hearing all the time. Like yeah, it might be good for use in speech therapy, but mostofmth time speech therapy is an in school service.

Alternative to FM is of course resources like a ASL translator and a scribe to do the work for you.. 2 persons helping you to get through school
So much for independence..

 

[deafdyke]

Alternative to FM is of course resources like a ASL translator and a scribe to do the work for you.. 2 persons helping you to get through school
So much for independence..

Cloggy, FYI I was talking about OUT OF CLASSROOM FM use. Not accommodations used in the classroom. Besides, oral kids use note takers ( pretty much universal accommodation for both oral and signing kids) as well as oral interpreters. That would be THREE people helping an oral kid through school. Besides, a note taker doesn't actually complete the work for the kid..they just write down what the teacher says, bc it is too hard to listen and write or look and write at the same time.
Besides, a terp isn't some sort of PCA attendent following a dhh person who uses sign everywhere. YES, dhh people who use sign can FUNCTION without a terp by their side! besides, I know oral only dhh (and they use their residual hearing very well) who will not go anywhere without a hearing person in tow, to serve, as their ears. Gee so much for independence, in hearing and talking if that sort of thing happens.

 

[deafdyke]

And what do you do if the FM/hearing aids/cis break? Technology is faulty, and will never be as good as nautrally occuring hearing.

 

[GrendelQ]

And what do you do if the FM/hearing aids/cis break? Technology is faulty, and will never be as good as nautrally occuring hearing.

I'd probably get those broken items fixed.

No, hearing via an HA or a CI may "never be as good as nautrally occuring hearing" as you say, but the whole point here is that naturally occurring hearing isn't really an option and doesn't exist for my profoundly deaf daughter, or for many other deaf children. Do you run after people in wheelchairs telling them that their wheels will never be as good as "naturally occurring legs", that they shouldn't use a wheelchair because it might require service someday?

 

[CSign]

That is bc you're not seeing that the simple use of an fm device in non academic situations, is basically saying " you need to listen, listen listen, and you can't function without using this ALD. the most important thing is to listen, listen listen. We're too lazy/uncreative to think of alternative ways of you function ing without hearing, hearing, hearing all the time. Like yeah, it might be good for use in speech therapy, but mostofmth time speech therapy is an in school service.

I disagree.

 

[CSign]

I'd probably get those broken items fixed.

No, hearing via an HA or a CI may "never be as good as nautrally occuring hearing" as you say, but the whole point here is that naturally occurring hearing isn't really an option and doesn't exist for my profoundly deaf daughter, or for many other deaf children. Do you run after people in wheelchairs telling them that their wheels will never be as good as "naturally occurring legs", that they shouldn't use a wheelchair because it might require service someday?

Great analogy and good points.

I concur.

 

[rick48]

Alternative to FM is of course resources like a ASL translator and a scribe to do the work for you.. 2 persons helping you to get through school
So much for independence..

Great points Cloggy for pointing out the bizarre logic espoused by one poster who rails against the use of an FM because it tethers a person to technology but she has no issue with having a person tethered to an interpreter all day to interact with the over 99% of the world that does not use any form of a signed language.

There are many tools that are available but not every tool works in every situation.

Rick