Tim become Kim at the age of 14!!

[Liebling:-)))]

I hope this child doesn't change her (his?) mind in 10 or 20 years.

No, I has no doubt that she will change her mind in 10 or 20 years later.


During toddler/small children time, play with dolls, cars, etc. are normal but soon before they hit puberty is not okay.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I know what a hermaphrodite is but I don't think that is what this child is. From what I read, this child was born anatomically a male (which would include male chromosomes), but felt psychologically like a female. (Unless there is more to this story that I haven't yet seen.) That's why I'm asking the question about the chromosomes. The posted story didn't mention it, so I'm trying to get more facts about the situation.

I know it didn't write in article about heraphrodite but I beleive yes. Many people unaware either they have male or female hormones in their body until soon before they hit puberty.

Check links in my previous posts.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If my child wanted a tattoo at the age of 12, it would be a big NO NO!! I really don't care if people call me a closed minder, I rather them to wait until they're older....wellll I hope it's a good tattoo not bloody or scary ones... but for :ahem: sexually change, heck NO!

Accord this thread here, this is not doctors's job to fulfill patients's wish with tattoos, piercings etc but yourself as parents. It's up to parents, not doctors.

With medical issues is total different, Doctors are responsible to take care of health issues where it relate to every bodies etc. Tattoo/piercing doesn't relate on medical issues...

 

[Reba]

Oh yes... they are the same because ear belongs part of body.

If I deny to fulfil his wish to have ear surgery until he is 18 years old then he will suffer physcial emotional in puberty/teenage time. No way, I prefer to let him to have ear surgery soon before he hit puberty...

Otoplasty

You're kidding, right? You can't really believe an ear tuck has the same impact on a person's life as a sex change.

A sex change impacts a person's entire identity. An ear tuck doesn't change a name, an ID card, marriage status, life-long hormone treatments, and legal status.

 

[Reba]

...Yes I know the article didn't write much either ambiguous genitalia, intersex, hermaphrodite, etc. he suffer but it written in article that Kim's parents check with Psychiatrists. I beleive they made tests including cytogenetic test until 100% absolutely before he become she.

Where did you read that? Please include the link. If they did do the tests, what were the results? Nothing in the posted story says anything about any physical reason for changing the child's sex. It just mentions the mental, emotional and behavioral reasons.

If the child was actually born with female hormones, then why does Kim need female hormone treatments now? That's contradictory.

If the parents suspect something not okay with toddlers and children then have doctors to make cytogenetic test on toddlers and children.

If Kim's parents did that, then why isn't it mentioned in the article? There is nothing in the article that says Kim was born with female hormones or chromosomes. It just says that Kim felt and behaved female.

Example David Reimer:
CBC News Indepth: David Reimer

What the doctor did to David is not right.

You are correct. The doctor was wrong. But this situation is not the same thing as the Kim situation.

... Without tests, is an illegal... I thought you aware that every makes tests.

From what I have read, many people have their sex "reassigned" because they are mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with their hormones or chromosomes. (Notice, I said "many", not "all".) Sure, they take the tests, and the tests come back proving that they are the sex that they were born with, and that they don't need a "change" for any medical or physical reasons. But they go ahead and get the surgery anyway. So, taking a test doesn't make the change legal or illegal.

Your link about David explains:

"Two studies – released by the Johns Hopkins Children's Center – concluded that it's prenatal exposure to male hormones that turns normal male babies into boys. The studies 'seriously question the current practice of sex-reassigning some of these infants as females'…"

In Kim's case, the child apparently was born with male hormones (unless you find more information that states otherwise). That's why Kim needs to take a hormone therapy to become feminized. Kim's body doesn't naturally produce female hormones. That's why I suspect Kim was born male, and is still male, physically. That's why I'm curious about the chromosome and hormone tests. Why aren't those results published in the article? That would clarify the situation.

 

[Reba]

No, I has no doubt that she will change her mind in 10 or 20 years later.

But then how will she change back? The surgery doesn't work as well changing back to male.

During toddler/small children time, play with dolls, cars, etc. are normal but soon before they hit puberty is not okay.

Huh? Playing with dolls and cars is not OK during puberty? Why not?

 

[Reba]

I know it didn't write in article about heraphrodite but I beleive yes. Many people unaware either they have male or female hormones in their body until soon before they hit puberty.

Check links in my previous posts.

None of your links were about Kim's situation.

According to the parents, Kim had girlish behavior and desires long before puberty.

Chromosomes can be checked any time, not just before puberty.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You're kidding, right? You can't really believe an ear tuck has the same impact on a person's life as a sex change.

A sex change impacts a person's entire identity. An ear tuck doesn't change a name, an ID card, marriage status, life-long hormone treatments, and legal status.

What do with entire identiy, name, etc?

Please re-read my post carefully. It has nothing do with a person´s identity etc.

I try to say that ear surgery belongs part of body. I´m happy to fulfill my son´s wish to CORRECT his ears. He would end unhappy and depression (suffer psychological, emotional, physiological, etc) if I deny his wish and tell him to wait until 18 years old then have ear surgery.

I´m try to say that Kim´s parents know her well to fulfill her wish.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Where did you read that? Please include the link. If they did do the tests, what were the results? Nothing in the posted story says anything about any physical reason for changing the child's sex. It just mentions the mental, emotional and behavioral reasons.

If the child was actually born with female hormones, then why does Kim need female hormone treatments now? That's contradictory.

Again, I already stated in previous posts that I know that it didn´t write everything in article and provide you few interesting links about tests etc.

If Kim's parents did that, then why isn't it mentioned in the article? There is nothing in the article that says Kim was born with female hormones or chromosomes. It just says that Kim felt and behaved female.

Yes that´s right. Tim is not only one who consider himself as girl because many people like that.

Many people who consider themselves as man or woman then later have sex change surgery. Before transexual surgery, they didn´t know who really they are... Perhaps they refuse to accept who really they are until they are old enough to realize who really they are and then make tests. I have read their stories about transexual etc before.

You are correct. The doctor was wrong. But this situation is not the same thing as the Kim situation.

I already mentioned in my previous post that this situation is not the same thing. I only want to show you the example of David´s case what the doctor did is not right which Kim´s case is different as David.

From what I have read, many people have their sex "reassigned" because they are mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with their hormones or chromosomes. (Notice, I said "many", not "all".) Sure, they take the tests, and the tests come back proving that they are the sex that they were born with, and that they don't need a "change" for any medical or physical reasons. But they go ahead and get the surgery anyway. So, taking a test doesn't make the change legal or illegal.

Yes I know. I have read, too but this is for adult who decide themselves to become woman or man but accord Kim is a different because she is minor. I beleive that the doctor are obligate to have test on her on the behalf of Kim´s parents and health insurance. Health Insurance don´t cover the costs for Kim without tests, etc. I know that because public healthy insurance demand the proof and tests, etc. before they cover the costs for her treatment. Public Health Insurance cover the costs for a person who born wrong hormones or chromosomes, intersex, etc, not people who desire themselves to be woman or man.

Your link about David explains:

"Two studies – released by the Johns Hopkins Children's Center – concluded that it's prenatal exposure to male hormones that turns normal male babies into boys. The studies 'seriously question the current practice of sex-reassigning some of these infants as females'…"

In Kim's case, the child apparently was born with male hormones (unless you find more information that states otherwise). That's why Kim needs to take a hormone therapy to become feminized. Kim's body doesn't naturally produce female hormones. That's why I suspect Kim was born male, and is still male, physically. That's why I'm curious about the chromosome and hormone tests. Why aren't those results published in the article? That would clarify the situation.

This link is relate David´s case, not Kim.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

But then how will she change back? The surgery doesn't work as well changing back to male.

Can you provide me some examples to compare Kim´s case? I never heard that that she want to back to he again.

Huh? Playing with dolls and cars is not OK during puberty? Why not?

I think I didn´t make my prevoius post clear.

Example:

A toddler/small child boy play with dolls and wear woman´s clothes is normal for toddler/small child´s age but soon he hit puberty (11 to 12 years old) still wear woman clothes and use woman´s things is not okay.

It´s same with girl, who play with cars is normal for toddler/small child´s age but soon before she hit puberty still desire to be boy and use boy´s things is not okay.

Got it?

It says in German websites (I will search for English link to provide here) that parents noticed that Tim wear girl clothes and play dolls, etc. and thought it´s normal for toddler age... until they begin notice his behavior development... something not okay... until Tim admit their parents that he do not feel that he is a boy. That´s how the parents focus Tim´s feeling and check with doctors, etc. until there´re 100% correct.... and decide to fulfill Tim´s wish into Kim.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

None of your links were about Kim's situation.

Did I say that the links, I provide is about Kim´s situation? No, I only provide the interesting links.

According to the parents, Kim had girlish behavior and desires long before puberty.

Yes

Chromosomes can be checked any time, not just before puberty.

Yes

 

[Reba]

What do with entire identiy, name, etc?

Sex change includes ALL those things.

Ear tuck does NOT include those things.

My point is, you can't compare an ear tuck with a sex change.

 

[Angel]

Sex change includes ALL those things.

Ear tuck does NOT include those things.

My point is, you can't compare an ear tuck with a sex change.

Right I agree ...

 

[Reba]

...A toddler/small child boy play with dolls and wear woman´s clothes is normal for toddler/small child´s age but soon he hit puberty (11 to 12 years old) still wear woman clothes and use woman´s things is not okay.

OK, now I understand.

It´s same with girl, who play with cars is normal for toddler/small child´s age but soon before she hit puberty still desire to be boy and use boy´s things is not okay.

But girls can play with the same toys that boys do, and that doesn't mean that they want to become boys. I think we call some toys "boys'" toys but really they are toys for boys and girls. (We shouldn't be so sexist, eh?)

I used to play with cars, toy guns and swords, skateboard, and GI Joe. I climbed trees and built forts. I definitely didn't want to become a boy! I just thought those toys and activities were interesting. I also played with my Barbies (who dated the GI Joes; Ken was too boring ). My brother and I used to play cowboys and Indians, and pirates with each other. But I didn't want to become a boy. My parents always bought me boy-style bikes so that I could hand-me-down to my younger brother. I preferred to read mystery and science fiction books (no "romance" books) because they had interesting plots. So?

When I was a kid, boys didn't wear girl's clothing, and girls didn't wear boy's clothing. It wasn't allowed, especially at school.

It says in German websites (I will search for English link to provide here) that parents noticed that Tim wear girl clothes and play dolls, etc. and thought it´s normal for toddler age...

I'm curious. Where did Tim get dolls and girl clothes when he was little? Did he have older sisters? If so, was he just borrowing from his sisters, and copying his sisters?

... until they begin notice his behavior development... something not okay...

I'm wondering how long it took his parents to notice? A week? A year?

...until Tim admit their parents that he do not feel that he is a boy.

How old was he then?

That´s how the parents focus Tim´s feeling and check with doctors, etc. until there´re 100% correct.... and decide to fulfill Tim´s wish into Kim.

Did the doctors discover female chromosomes or hormones in Tim?

 

[ismi]

If the child hasn't yet had the surgery, why did they issue new ID and insurance cards with the new sex? "Kim's" body hasn't been fully "changed" yet so the sex on the body and the sex on the cards don't yet match. Is that legal?

Sexual Reassignment Surgery (SRS) is not the defining trait of a transperson. More important are self-identity and the assumed characteristics (behavior, physical movement, etc) of their 'changed' gender. Some transpeople switch identities with no medical intervention; some take hormone injections regularly; some use hormones and surgery. This can be because of financial reasons, or because surgery would be medically inappropriate (say, in a patient who is immunocompromised, or hemophiliac), or because it's very difficult to obtain this kind of medical care. All of these are common long-term options in the trans community.

I don't know German law on this issue, but in the US, medical intervention is not required in order to legally change your gender (names, obviously can be changed by anyone). I'm not sure about whether you have to be approved by a psychiatrist - as a practical matter, the courts won't do it without that, but I'm not sure about the legislation involved.

 

[Opal]

Sex change includes ALL those things.

Ear tuck does NOT include those things.

My point is, you can't compare an ear tuck with a sex change.

Agreed.

 

[Opal]

But girls can play with the same toys that boys do, and that doesn't mean that they want to become boys. I think we call some toys "boys'" toys but really they are toys for boys and girls. (We shouldn't be so sexist, eh?)

I used to play with cars, toy guns and swords, skateboard, and GI Joe. I climbed trees and built forts. I definitely didn't want to become a boy! I just thought those toys and activities were interesting. I also played with my Barbies (who dated the GI Joes; Ken was too boring ). My brother and I used to play cowboys and Indians, and pirates with each other. But I didn't want to become a boy. My parents always bought me boy-style bikes so that I could hand-me-down to my younger brother. I preferred to read mystery and science fiction books (no "romance" books) because they had interesting plots. So?

When I was a kid, boys didn't wear girl's clothing, and girls didn't wear boy's clothing. It wasn't allowed, especially at school.

My sister grew up tom-boy, she hates to wear a dress or hairband, she used to wear cowboy outfit, wearing pants, playing with guns, and horses stuffs, she used to saying she hates the idea of become pregnant or become a Mother, I am glad she didn't went through sex-changed operation, because today she is feminine and I am worried about Tim/Kim because it will outgrown one day like my sister.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Sex change includes ALL those things.

Yes

Ear tuck does NOT include those things.

:conjfused: I never say that ear tuck include sex change. I only say that ear surgery belongs PART of body. Example correct nose, eyes, etc...

My point is, you can't compare an ear tuck with a sex change.

I do not compare an ear surgery with a sex change. I never say that sex change and ear surgery are the same thing... I only say that ear surgery belong part of body...

I have to repeat in my previous posts.

If Alan want to have his ears to be correct. I fullfil his wish instead of wait until he is 18 years old because I know Alan well.

It´s the same with the parents, who know their children well to fullfil their wishes instead of tell them to wait until they are 18 years old.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Never Mind...

Each person entitle their own opinions. I beleive to fulfill my childs´wish earlier than let them wait until they are 18 years old...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Unhappy as a boy, Kim became youngest ever transsexual at 12

A boy of 12 is believed to have become the world's youngest sex change patient after convincing doctors that he wanted to live the rest of his life as a female.

The boy - originally called Tim, but now known as Kim - has started to receive hormone treatment, in preparation for the operation that will eventually complete the sex change.

Tim was diagnosed as a transsexual two years ago, when doctors and psychiatrists concluded that his claims to be "in the wrong body" were so deeply felt that he required treatment. The therapy involves artificially arresting male puberty, with a series of potent hormone injections before the administration of female hormones to initiate the development of features such as breasts.

Now aged 14, and officially registered as a female, Kim looks like a typical girl of her age. She dresses in fashionable clothes, has long blonde hair and blue eyes and dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer. Her parents, who initially assumed their son was going through a temporary phase, eventually grew accustomed to seeing him as a girl.

The family's full identity has not been made public. But Kim's father, known as Lutz P. – speaking to the German publications Der Spiegel and Stern – said that as a child, the boy liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl. "We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal."

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said. "At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking."

Kim's parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany. Some condemned their support of their child's desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that Kim be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward. But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious. He wrote in his diagnosis: "Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced. There is no doubt of the determined wish, that was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man. It is rare to have such a clear-cut case."

Kim is reportedly fully accepted by her fellow school pupils and teachers. The costs of the procedure are being covered by health insurance, as the condition qualifies as an illness.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, an endocrinologist specialising in children and adolescents, who is treating the teenager at a clinic in Hamburg, said the procedure had been a success so far. Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex change patient in the world. According to German law, two independent psychiatrists must confirm that the child is indeed transsexual and approve the sex change. Once that has been done, it is best to start as early as possible.

"Transsexuals experience the onset of puberty, and the physical changes it brings, as a serious trauma. But there is a general lack of empathy with cases like Kim's, mostly because people know little about the condition. Imagine a man that suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman that starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.

"They are not freaks, nor do they suffer mental illness. They are simply trapped in the wrong bodies. That is why it is best to help them as early as possible and reduce the trauma for them and their families."

The problem that Dr Meyenburg and other psychiatrists faced was distinguishing a true transsexual personality from a temporary gender identity crisis. Dr Meyenburg quoted an example of a 15-year-old girl who wanted to change her sex, but who revealed during counselling that she had suffered brutal sexual abuse by her father – a case for psychological, rather than hormonal therapy.

Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood.

For legal reasons, the final stage – cosmetic surgery to remove the male genitalia – cannot take place until Kim is 18. Britain's youngest transsexual is Angel Paris-Jordan, who was granted an operation on the NHS at the age of 17.

Unhappy as a boy, Kim became youngest ever transsexual at 12 | International News | News | Telegraph