The world's second-ever octuplets were born

jillio said:
Yeah, that becomes as issue as well. Doctors take an oath to first of all, do no harm. This type of multiple birth that we are discussing could be easily seen as a violation of that, particularly if these poor babies end up brain damaged or otherwise have serious health issues that affect them for life.

However, should a woman become pregnant naturally with 8 fetuses, then they would be obligated also to do beneficence, which means what is the most benefit to the patient. However, there has never been a documented case of octuplets conceived naturally, and only one other conceived with fertility treatments.

But to answer the original question, in my opinion, a woman can have as many children as she wants provided she is capable of supporting them and providing a home for them. In this case, the woman cannot support the 6 she had prior without receiving public assistance. Adding 8 more to the dole, especially considering the fact that taxpayers will now be picking up the neonatal medical costs at $250,000 a day per baby, it is time for someone to step in.
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I agree.

$250,000 a day per baby - 8 babies = 2 million dollars a day for eight babies! Imagine how much it will cost over the entire lives of these babies if they survive! :shock:
 
LuciaDisturbed said:
I agree.

$250,000 a day per baby - 8 babies = 2 million dollars a day for eight babies! Imagine how much it will cost over the entire lives of these babies if they survive! :shock:
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Just trying to calculate it for the 3 months they will no doubt be hospitalized for (and chances are great it is even longer) is mind boggling. Each baby is assigned 2 around the clock neonatal specialist nurses, not to mention the equipment and the meds.
 
jillio said:
Just trying to calculate it for the 3 months they will no doubt be hospitalized for (and chances are great it is even longer) is mind boggling. Each baby is assigned 2 around the clock neonatal specialist nurses, not to mention the equipment and the meds.
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If I calculated it right, it would cost $60 million a month to care for all eight babies! :shock:
 
I think all or most of the 8 babies will end up in separate foster homes for sure anyway because:

1) The house that the woman was living at, is only a 3 bedroom house, and she already has SIX kids in there. How the hell do you fit 14 children, 8 of them being babies, into a THREE BEDROOM house? Pray tell, please tell me, HOW? Are we going to put them all in cages like the cats and the dogs at the humane society? What? And don't forget the woman and her mother, too. That's 16 people total!

2) The woman's mother wants nothing to do with this situation, and has said so. So it's possible the woman and her babies will not have a home to go to, if the woman's mother doesn't let her and her babies come live with her. The 3 bedroom house is the woman's mother's house, anyway.

3) The woman is on welfare and has no other means to feed and care for all of her children on her own without getting a free ride from the state of California.

And there are countless other reasons.

I feel sorry for all those babies.

Shame on that woman, and shame on the fertility clinic that allowed this to happen. :nono:
 
LuciaDisturbed said:
I think all or most of the 8 babies will end up in separate foster homes for sure anyway because:

1) The house that the woman was living at, is only a 3 bedroom house, and she already has SIX kids in there. How the hell do you fit 14 children, 8 of them being babies, into a THREE BEDROOM house? Pray tell, please tell me, HOW? Are we going to put them all in cages like the cats and the dogs at the humane society? What?

2) The woman's mother wants nothing to do with this situation, and has said so. So it's possible the woman and her babies will not have a home to go to, if the woman's mother doesn't let her and her babies come live with her. The 3 bedroom house is the woman's mother's house, anyway.

3) The woman is on welfare and has no other means to feed and care for all of her children on her own without getting a free ride from the state of California.

And there are countless other reasons.

I feel sorry for all those babies.

Shame on that woman, and shame on the fertility clinic that allowed this to happen. :nono:
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I agree, Lucia. My sympathy is extended to the babies and all that they are enduring now, and now doubt will have to endure for a long time to come.
 
jillio said:
I agree, Lucia. My sympathy is extended to the babies and all that they are enduring now, and now doubt will have to endure for a long time to come.
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Yes.

I grew up in foster care, and it was HELL for me. I will never forget the things that happened to me in foster care. So, I feel sorry for them and will continue to hope that several adoptive families will come forward and adopt the babies if the babies end up in foster care. :(
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Newsflash: She ain't.
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Yep. Something is seriously wrong with this woman, mentally. 6 kids and then a litter of 8 babies?! Jeez. I'm surprised she hasn't attempted to eat the placenta like dogs do after they give birth to their puppies.

Disclaimer: I'm just being sarcastic.

But seriously, this woman IS mentally ill.
 
This raises the issue of reproductive choice. If anyone is to blame here, it's the fertility doctor. This isn't a situation where a woman addicted to pregnancy, or obsessed with having a large number of children, runs around like a dog in heat looking for someone, anyone to father a child, for 14 years until she was satisfied with the number of children she has.

I think the doctor was ethically irresponsible-of course, the mother may have gone around to doctor after doctor until she found one willing to implant her, but I'd think that a responsible doctor would look at her history and current number of children and decline to add to that number. Obviously she found one who didn't think there was anything wrong with her obsession.

Her mysterious statement to the former babysitter (or nanny) that she gets paid for it makes me wonder...is she referring to welfare, child support, or was this some compensated medical experiment to see just how many live births a human is capable of? Or maybe she's just insane.
 
flyingace said:
This raises the issue of reproductive choice. If anyone is to blame here, it's the fertility doctor. This isn't a situation where a woman addicted to pregnancy, or obsessed with having a large number of children, runs around like a dog in heat looking for someone, anyone to father a child, for 14 years until she was satisfied with the number of children she has.

I think the doctor was ethically irresponsible-of course, the mother may have gone around to doctor after doctor until she found one willing to implant her, but I'd think that a responsible doctor would look at her history and current number of children and decline to add to that number. Obviously she found one who didn't think there was anything wrong with her obsession.

Her mysterious statement to the former babysitter (or nanny) that she gets paid for it makes me wonder...is she referring to welfare, child support, or was this some compensated medical experiment to see just how many live births a human is capable of? Or maybe she's just insane.
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While I agree basically with what you are saying, I have to take exception with one point. She may not have been running around finding different fathers for all of her children, but she definately has some issues concerning pregnancy and having children. Stop and think...she used in vitro fertilization for all of her 14 children. If she was logical and thinking clearly, she would have used the procedure to become a mother perhaps once, maybe even twice, but to become pregnant with 14 children, unmarried, without a means to support and care for those children, indicates that she is has some issues. Plus, one can be obsessed with having medical procedure done to oneself.

This was not a compensated experimental procedure. It is illegal to experiment on humans in this manner. Not to mention unethical. And to offer compensation for such means that the doctors involved would not only loose their license to practice, but would be spending significant time in jail, as well.

While the physicians are indeed, in my opinion, guilty of gross ethical violations, we will have to see what the ethics board rules in this case. But the responsibility falls on more than just the doctors. The responsibility is shared, and this woman was a party in the decision making process. She did, remember, refuse the reduction procedure she was offered, and that was recommended, when it became clear that at least 7 of the embryos had survived the implantation. At that point, all the doctors could do was to insure that risk was minimized as much as possible in an extremely high risk situation.
 
Jiro said:
I'm petitioning to get her a court-ordered Dreama Protocol! :mad2:
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Seriously?

I should hope she decides to stop having kids now. Otherwise her doctor should strongly advise her to go for the snip.

I haven't heard of her being abusive to children so she should be alowed to keep them but if she's not financially up to it, and has a compulsion to keep bearing more and more... It might be the kindest thing to do. It reminds me of those animal collectors who have rooms full of cages because they can't stop getting more pets. In this case it's a baby collector.
 
chris' mom said:
I was a premie b/c I was a twin born 29 years ago. I have my complications and my sister does too. Should we have been aborted b/c of the extended complications of carrying multiples? Should our children be aborted b/c they have something wrong with them??
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Definately no! Once you are in the womb. Your life should be sacred. I'm against people delibrately having higher multiples for whatever reason, but once there. Well they are there aren't they. So in a way I'm very glad she didn't opt for an abortion but it's a pity she got the firtility treatment in the first place.
 
chris' mom said:
I understand that. But if someone ended up pregnant with high order multiples why should they feel they have to abort? I won't get on my soap box about abortions, but all babies rather having complications or not has the right to live.

Now I agree the lady should not have went in for those treatment and the whole thing shouldn't have happened, but I don't agree with aborting the "extra" babies
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Well said!
 
dreama said:
Seriously?

I should hope she decides to stop having kids now. Otherwise her doctor should strongly advise her to go for the snip.

I haven't heard of her being abusive to children so she should be alowed to keep them but if she's not financially up to it, and has a compulsion to keep bearing more and more... It might be the kindest thing to do. It reminds me of those animal collectors who have rooms full of cages because they can't stop getting more pets. In this case it's a baby collector.
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She should have been sterilized after baby #6.

I hope they will make her get sterilized so there are no more babies after baby #14.

I highly doubt she is financially able nor physically able to care for 8 fragile babies. I know foster homes are not a very kind thing to do sometimes, but the chances are very good they will be placed in separate foster homes once they get big enough and healthy enough (if they survive) to leave the hospital, judging by the size of the woman's mother's bedroom house (3 bedroom house) and the fact that the woman is getting a free ride from the state of California. Also, take in consideration that the woman's mother wants nothing to do with this situation and has said so, so the woman and the babies may not have a home to go to once the mother leaves the hospital and then once the babies are deemed healthy and big enough to leave the hospital several months later.

I cannot imagine having the physical ability and the stamina to care for eight babies all by myself. :Ohno: I can maybe handle one or two babies once I have all my health problems taken care of and I am cleared by the doctor to have children someday.

I've watched my aunt try to care for her twin babies. We all lived in the same house (the house consisted of two flats, 3 bedrooms in each flat, so six bedroom house) and she and my uncle lived upstairs. Oftentimes my aunt had to ask my mother to come upstairs and help her with the twins. I saw how difficult it was for my aunt. This was while my uncle was at work. So, 8 babies is mind-boggling. :shock:
 
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