The Art of Cueing

[jillio]

Don"t do it naisho. You will be sorry!

 

[Jiro]

naisho - Thank you, I see how the choice of the word communicated created grey areas. Perhaps a better choice would be "access to language is provided".
My apologies Jiro.

so... what's wrong with ASL for that purpose?

This is not about ASL over cueing. Why do you view it as such?

why do you view it otherwise?

"If you had to debate vs an ASL lecturer, as a Cueing representative, what would you offer against your opponent if you were discussing this to a room of 100 students ready to take either courses?"

I cannot provide comment on your hypothetical example naisho, as from my perceptive there is not enough information. Care to provide more specifics?

that doesn't sound very.... confident.

 

[naisho]

I cannot provide comment on your hypothetical example naisho, as from my perceptive there is not enough information. Care to provide more specifics?

Well, you're talking to 100 students who have zero knowledge over both worlds. I'm guessing as most people who just start the world of "sign language", have no idea what about ASL, Cue, Sim-com, whatnots and what they have to offer out there.

What would be some reasons that they should choose cueing as their initial ground over ASL?
I don't think ASL and cueing go hand in hand, right? It's separate worlds, so its one or the other, correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Jiro]

I'm sorry but when I think of cued speech... this is what first popped in my head all the time (sorry I couldn't help it. I've held out for as long as I can) -

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpw9r9x1SVs]YouTube - Jim Carrey Saturday Night (Love is gone version)[/ame]

**SKIP TO 0:30 and 1:40

 

[jillio]

:rofl2::rofl2:

 

[loml]

Jiro - "so... what's wrong with ASL for that purpose?"

There is nothing wrong with ASL as a visual language, for the purpose of a visual language.

This is not about ASL over cueing. Why do you view it as such?

why do you view it otherwise?

I need some varification please.

Are you asking me why I do not view this as ASL over/against the cueing of spoekn language?


Thanks

 

[loml]

What would be some reasons that they should choose cueing as their initial ground over ASL?

I don't think ASL and cueing go hand in hand, right? It's separate worlds, so its one or the other, correct me if I'm wrong?

naisho- Who are these students? Are they deaf/heairng, ESL students??

I do not believe that ASL and cued English need to be used exclusively. If a person has profeciency in both, one can choose to "drop" a cued English word in with an ASL coversation or an ASL sign in with a cued English conversation.

 

[loml]

That was funny Jiro. Thanks.

 

[naisho]

naisho- Who are these students? Are they deaf/heairng, ESL students??

Well, for the sake of generalness, let's assume they can be a blending mixture of students. Hearing, deaf, HH, foreign students, a mix of everything. Ranging from senior in high school to probably a 40 year old man.

I do not believe that ASL and cued English need to be used exclusively. If a person has profeciency in both, one can choose to "drop" a cued English word in with an ASL coversation or an ASL sign in with a cued English conversation.

I see. As a prospective student in the world of "sign language", I am quite sadly inclined to say that I lean towards the favor of ASL due to how I've been informed by society, or much rather, shaped by society.
Cued speech has not shed a ray of light entry into my life of two decades, until recently. ASL has long appeared since the beginning.

I would have to say, that hastily drawing a personal conclusion from this evaluation - ASL feel to me as the epitome of non-verbal communication as a general accepted scale, if I were to choose a from a choice of "category of speech" for those with a hard of hearing background.

 

[jillio]

naisho- Who are these students? Are they deaf/heairng, ESL students??

I do not believe that ASL and cued English need to be used exclusively. If a person has profeciency in both, one can choose to "drop" a cued English word in with an ASL coversation or an ASL sign in with a cued English conversation.

Now, there's a way to provide a confusing linguitic environment! Let's just set progress back about 50 years.:roll:

 

[lsfoster]

Jiro -The sounds of the French language can be spoken, cued or printed. The sounds of the English language can be spoken, cued or printed. Through cueing, the sounds of these two spoken language are made available to the people/children who are deaf/hoh. The sounds of a language hold a beauty just as the signs of ASL do.

I cannot comment on whether or not Braille is considered a language, perhaps this is something Dreama or Hear again can clear up for me ( if they happen to read this post).

Jiro - I agree that languages can be communicated by any means sound, visual and tactile. This is exactly what cueing does.

But it seems to me like CS tries to communicate the sounds of one language, but visually, not as the sounds they actually are. So it isn't really communicating language in the same way as other languages, since it's trying to convey one of those methods (sound) by forcing it into another one (visual).

I do not believe that ASL and cued English need to be used exclusively. If a person has profeciency in both, one can choose to "drop" a cued English word in with an ASL coversation or an ASL sign in with a cued English conversation.

But that depends entirely on the people involved. I mean, I'm proficient in french and english, and so are the members of my family. Could I "drop" a french word into an english conversation we were having? Sure. Could I do that with my friends? It would just be confusing if they didn't speak french.

Also, if you wanted to "drop" an english word into an ASL conversation, why wouldn't you just fingerspell it instead of completely shifting the method of communication to somehow involve the "sounds" of the word, instead of simply the word itself?

 

[loml]

lsfoster - Thank you for respondng.

Would you please clarify for me some of the contents of your post.

Would you please expland on the portion of your statements that I have bolded. is statement. I have highlighted ain what you mean by :

But it seems to me like CS tries to communicate the sounds of one language, but visually, not as the sounds they actually are. So it isn't really communicating language in the same way as other languages, since it's trying to convey one of those methods (sound) by forcing it into another one (visual).

But that depends entirely on the people involved. I mean, I'm proficient in french and english, and so are the members of my family. Could I "drop" a french word into an english conversation we were having? Sure. Could I do that with my friends? It would just be confusing if they didn't speak french.

Aboslutely, interactions/conversations depend on the people involved. It is also about the choices they make. I agree that dropping a French word into a conversation of English with friends who were not profecient in French would be confusing. Just as dropping an ASL sign into a cued conversation would be confusing, and vica versa, IF the people are not profecient in both.

Also, if you wanted to "drop" an english word into an ASL conversation, why wouldn't you just fingerspell it instead of completely shifting the method of communication to somehow involve the "sounds" of the word, instead of simply the word itself?

I think the word "drop", is being taken very literally. I could be wrong and please to help me out here if I am misunderstanding you. Your are meaning a conversation with individuals fluent in both, obviously in context??

Why not just fingerspell the word? Great question! I will contact individuals that are deaf, fluent in ASL and cued English, for who this is an approach that they take, and provide you with their response, "right from the horses mouth" so to speak.

Does that work for you?

 

[loml]

Well, for the sake of generalness, let's assume they can be a blending mixture of students. Hearing, deaf, HH, foreign students, a mix of everything. Ranging from senior in high school to probably a 40 year old man.

Wow.... talk about a mixed bag!

Sorry - if you really want to continue in this discussion, I do need to ask you more question about your "group" of people. Is this something that you want to do?

naisho - If you have no desire to communicate viusally with English, then ASL is definately an excellent choice.

 

[jillio]

Wow.... talk about a mixed bag!

Sorry - if you really want to continue in this discussion, I do need to ask you more question about your "group" of people. Is this something that you want to do?

naisho - If you have no desire to communicate viusally with English, then ASL is definately an excellent choice.

There are several ways to communicate visually with English...CS being the least used.

 

[Babyblue]

Wow.... talk about a mixed bag!

Sorry - if you really want to continue in this discussion, I do need to ask you more question aboutyour "group" of people. Is this something that you want to do?

naisho - If you have no desire to communicate viusally with English, then ASL is definately an excellent choice.

Group of people??

Geez..

How do you define "group of people" To me it is a little broad. Since AllDeaf is as diverse as any.

So elaborate on "Your Group"

Just trying to see how you visualize the "Group"

 

[AlleyCat]

Honestly, I'd never heard of CS until this forum. Using ASL while growing up along with speech therapy was all I needed. I did perfectly fine.

 

[jillio]

Honestly, I'd never heard of CS until this forum. Using ASL while growing up along with speech therapy was all I needed. I did perfectly fine.

I took a look at it in the '80's. Read about the system, saw what the experts had to say about it, attended a workshop, and said "pfffft." Given the few number of cuers around, and the lack of use for even educational purposes, most people have said "pffft."

 

[deafdyke]

I don't know about you but I don't see many adult deafies using this. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about kids dropping CS for ASL as they grow up.

ditto! It's a good bridge....but using it exclusively would be like using phonetics in every class.

 

[loml]

Group of people??

Geez..

How do you define "group of people" To me it is a little broad. Since AllDeaf is as diverse as any.

So elaborate on "Your Group"

Just trying to see how you visualize the "Group"

Babyblue - naisho is presenting to me a hypothetical sitituation, he is creating the players, not me. This is his group of people. I am only looking for more detail, in an attempt to answer the questions the best that I can.

 

[loml]

ditto! It's a good bridge....but using it exclusively would be like using phonetics in every class.

deafdyke - A bridge to what? Are you saying that using English is simply phonics?