Texas lawmaker to introduce anti-immigration bill

[Steinhauer]

Sorry, Reba. Unlike some, I don't pretend to have a crystal ball.

Then you should NOT be saying how this law will effect illegals and non illegals since it does not take effect until July.

Or were you using your crystal ball to make those predictions?

 

[Jiro]

I would like to think the far reaching objective is to deport all illegals.

Why do you support illegals?

why do you support alienating and harassing legal immigrants?

 

[saywhatkid]

...Why do you support illegals?

You know, you raised a big stink about me making assumptions. Then I stumble upon this. I have not seen ANYONE here in support of illegals. I see people AGAINST the new law. Big difference. Perhaps you skipped reading comprehension?

 

[Foxrac]

Referred from other thread.

deported illegals ..... new job openings?

Coincidence?

It is partially true that deport of illegal immigrants would help to increase of job opening, however it is depends on companies and some companies are seeking other illegal immigrants after other illegal caught and deport by ICE agents. Some companies like to hire illegal immigrants because of underpay and don't report to IRS, that's practice of dirty businesses. Sometime, companies don't want open the position after illegal immigrants deported.

That why I said mixed issue about between illegal immigrants and job.

 

[Jiro]

I didn't ask for a prediction. I asked for a possible scenario.

So you can't think of any possibly situation where a campus cop wouldn't be accused of racism?

Then I was right. They can't win. No matter what happens, if the person stopped by a campus cop makes the accusation "racism", there is no possible defense for the cop. If the accuser is the same race or different race, it doesn't matter. The cop will be accused, regardless.

If I'm misunderstanding you, please correct me. Is it possible for a campus cop to enforce laws against traffic infractions by minority students without being racist?

I'm wondering how did this turn into racism? the officer went to her because she was impeding the traffic. That is illegal. He asked for license and she did not have any. He cut her a slack and told her to come back tomorrow with license because she's a college student and he knew she's not gonna run away.

Next day - she was unable to produce license and told the officer everything. So the officer handed her over to ICE.

problem solved. this new immigration law is not needed.

 

[Defmusicman]

I've read all the posts on this thread and, as always, I'm fascinated with lively debate. The only questions I have here are :

1. How did this lady have a Mexican driver's license if she was 7 years old when she and her parents moved to this country?

2. How did she apply for and receive financial support to pay her college tuition without a state-issued driver's license or Social Security number?

How is it that some people can get free college tuition when I'm told that I make too much money to qualify for financial aid so my kids can go to college? I can barely keep up with the cost of daily living as it is.

On a lighter note, helping Mexico improve their economic status probably wouldn't work because there's nobody living there anymore. They've all moved here. :P

 

[jillio]

Then you should NOT be saying how this law will effect illegals and non illegals since it does not take effect until July.

Or were you using your crystal ball to make those predictions?

Get a grip, Steinhauer. And while you are at it, point out to me exactly where I made a predicition regarding future effects on anything other than a sociological perspective that can be supported by years and years of accummulated research on the topic.

 

[jillio]

I've read all the posts on this thread and, as always, I'm fascinated with lively debate. The only questions I have here are :

1. How did this lady have a Mexican driver's license if she was 7 years old when she and her parents moved to this country?

2. How did she apply for and receive financial support to pay her college tuition without a state-issued driver's license or Social Security number?

How is it that some people can get free college tuition when I'm told that I make too much money to qualify for financial aid so my kids can go to college? I can barely keep up with the cost of daily living as it is.

On a lighter note, helping Mexico improve their economic status probably wouldn't work because there's nobody living there anymore. They've all moved here. :P

Because., chances are better than good that the information regarding this was grossly distorted.

 

[jillio]

I didn't ask for a prediction. I asked for a possible scenario.

So you can't think of any possibly situation where a campus cop wouldn't be accused of racism?

Then I was right. They can't win. No matter what happens, if the person stopped by a campus cop makes the accusation "racism", there is no possible defense for the cop. If the accuser is the same race or different race, it doesn't matter. The cop will be accused, regardless.

If I'm misunderstanding you, please correct me. Is it possible for a campus cop to enforce laws against traffic infractions by minority students without being racist?

Nope, here is what you asked for:

Then please tell me under what circumstances the police won't be accused of racism if they confront a driver such as in the college student example.

That is a request for definitive information. Can't be predicted, because extenuating circumstances and motive can't be predicted. Racism is not so much contained in the act as in the intent behind the act.

 

[Reba]

Nope, here is what you asked for:

Then please tell me under what circumstances the police won't be accused of racism if they confront a driver such as in the college student example.

That is a request for definitive information. Can't be predicted, because extenuating circumstances and motive can't be predicted. Racism is not so much contained in the act as in the intent behind the act.

How is the intent behind the act of a traffic infraction stop determined?

 

[jillio]

How is the intent behind the act of a traffic infraction stop determined?

Think about it Reba. Not terribly difficult to figure out. Happens all the time in these good ole United States. To believe it doesn't is just naive.

 

[Reba]

Think about it Reba. Not terribly difficult to figure out. Happens all the time in these good ole United States. To believe it doesn't is just naive.

That doesn't answer my question. How do you determine the racist intent of a traffic stop?

 

[jillio]

That doesn't answer my question. How do you determine the racist intent of a traffic stop?

Through review of the facts behind the stop.

 

[Jiro]

That doesn't answer my question. How do you determine the racist intent of a traffic stop?

2 ways -

1. officer saw him thru window and decided to pull him over
2. officer saw him once he approached him and his next action is based on driver's race

ie. driver pulled him over for whatever the violation is. if driver's white - officer will either write him a ticket or let him go. if driver's hispanic - the officer will ask for a proof of immigration status.

 

[TXgolfer]

2 ways -

1. officer saw him thru window and decided to pull him over
2. officer saw him once he approached him and his next action is based on driver's race

ie. driver pulled him over for whatever the violation is. if driver's white - officer will either write him a ticket or let him go. if driver's hispanic - the officer will ask for a proof of immigration status.

May ask......not will ask. AZ requires proof before issuing a driver's license. If the person has a valid DL when stopped the question will not be necessary.

Also Reba asked how one would determine the intent.

 

[jillio]

May ask......not will ask. AZ requires proof before issuing a driver's license. If the person has a valid DL when stopped the question will not be necessary.

Also Reba asked how one would determine the intent.

Are you saying that the officer could not claim to suspect the DL was a forgery and ask for proof of immigration status based on the fact that the driver was Hispanic? Or what about pulling the driver over to start with? That can't be racially motivated. Probable cause is adjusted based on ethnicity all the time in this country.

The question was answered. Through review.

 

[Jiro]

May ask......not will ask. AZ requires proof before issuing a driver's license. If the person has a valid DL when stopped the question will not be necessary.

really? you willing to bank on it that police officer will not ask for proof of immigration status ever even if the driver has a license?

Also Reba asked how one would determine the intent.

I just explained it.

 

[TXgolfer]

really? you willing to bank on it that police officer will not ask for proof of immigration status ever even if the driver has a license?

I believe most LEO's will honor their oath and follow the law. Unless there is a reasonable question about the athenticity of the DL the LEO is going to have a hard time explaining why he went beyond the DL to determine citizenship. Remember, the illegal immigrants will still get hearings. For the LEO bad apples, they don't need this law......they are bad apples.......they will find a way with or without this law. ie planting drugs.

I just explained it

Actually you didn't explain anything. You suggested two instances that would be racial profiling. You didn't explain how you would determine the intent of the LEO. Perhaps the intent would be determined in hearings .....say the LEO had made five arrests for illegal immigration after jaywalking stops but the same LEO had never issued a jaywalking citation prior to the immigration law. In that case it would be reasonable to assume that the LEO was racially profiling.

 

[kokonut]

Txgolfer's argument is compelling. So far, so good.

 

[Reba]

Through review of the facts behind the stop.

True local story:

One middle-aged woman, driving SUV late at night, pulled over for license plate light not working. Received polite warning, no ticket.

One middle-aged woman, driving car at night, pulled over for license plate light not working. Received polite warning, no ticket.

One woman was black, one was white. Same city, within days of each other. Neither one claimed that the light was working. One driver claims racial profiling, one driver thanks the officer for pointing out the problem so she can get it fixed.

Question: How did the police officer see the skin color of the driver at night in an SUV (tinted windows) prior to making the stop?

How do you determine the "intent" from these facts?