Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[rockdrummer]

Yes, I am hearing. What difference does that make ? I've had contact with the deaf. I had friends who were deaf. I shared the same crappy school experiences as my deaf counterparts. I saw how my deaf classmates struggled while trying to understand the material being tought.

Am I not allowed to comment about that?

oops.. I didn't know that. I think bott picked up on me thinking you were deaf. Sorry. My bad. And ofc you can comment on your experiences. I don't think it was suggested that you couldn't

 

[jillio]

Some of us. I was in the mainstream, yes. Some of the deaf students at my school were in self contained classes as well. It depended on what their IEPs indicated.

You have brought up a good point. I keep hearing that one size does not fit all, and that each deaf child should be educated individually, yet the mainstream programs quite often use self contained classrooms. What is the purpose of a self contained classroom? It is to put the deaf children in that particular district in a group so that they all can recieve the same instruction using one particular philosophy and methodology. Self contained classrooms blow the "one size does not fit all" argument right out of the water.

 

[Angel]

oh.. you didn't specify. One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of our educational backgrounds we all fall somewhere on the curve. That doesn't mean the system failed us. I would agree that if within a given system everyone is landing on the same low spot on the curve then there might be a problem with the system. With regards to TC I have not seen any evidence that supports that.

Yes I agree with you completely and

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I think it makes a lot of difference. You are not deaf and you are not a qualified TOD. When anyone deaf with actual experience speaks up in one of these threads they are shot down.

Because you echo the thoughts of the most passionate, they just let you gol

Deaf people are told to get a teaching certificate and go out and teach.

At least, I'm trying to learn. Give me credit for that. I seem have upset you and I've apologized. I think the only thing left for me to do now is put you on ignore. Please do the same of me if you find my posts upsetting. Thank you.

 

[jillio]

I'm glad my son is not in such a program. While he does attend a mainstream school he is in special classes for deaf kids where they do get individualized instruction of which much is determined based on goal setting during his IEP. Nobody ever pushed us to put him in a mainstream oral only class.

I hate to break it to you, RD, and no disrespect intended, but if he is in a self contained classroom, he is receiving group instruction based on one particular philosophy and using one particular methodology. That is the whole purpose of a self contained classroom. Group instruction.

 

[rick48]

You do understand that Oceanbreeze is not deaf?

I did the oral mainstream until I graduated in 1974, but I am really on the edge between severe and profound.

What??? You have to be kidding me!!

 

[Angel]

I would never put a profoundly deaf child in an oral only environment. Not to slight your parents. I just don't believe that would be fair.

I understand but my parents did not have enough information back then as they do now.

There was absolutely no interepters in any of my mainstream classes. I didn't attend TC until HS.

Edit opps forgive me I thought you were replying this to me. heh

 

[Bottesini]

At least, I'm trying to learn. Give me credit for that. I seem have upset you and I've apologized. I think the only thing left for me to do now is put you on ignore. Please do the same of me if you find my posts upsetting. Thank you.

Your posts don't upset me.

I just want fairness for all.

Since you are now ignoring me this won't bother you a bit.

 

[rick48]

I think it makes a lot of difference. You are not deaf and you are not a qualified TOD. When anyone deaf with actual experience speaks up in one of these threads they are shot down.

Because you echo the thoughts of the most passionate, they just let you gol

Deaf people are told to get a teaching certificate and go out and teach.

Very true. Now it makes sense that when I asked her to state her experience to back up a negative generalization she made about hearing parents of cochlear kids she could not do so.

Just when you thought you heard it all...

 

[rockdrummer]

Well, if literacy skills have not raised using those methods, then they are ineffective for increasing literacy skills, are they not? Had they been effective, we would have seen a steady rise over the last 25-30 years of the use of the MCEs.

You said the study

"states that the MCEs have been woefully inadequate in raising literacy skills for deaf children over the last 25-30 years."

All I meant was that I did not see that statement in the paper. I am not arguing the facts just questioning where that statement was in the article. I didn't see it.

 

[rick48]

thanks. I would never put a profoundly deaf child in an oral only environment. Not to slight your parents. I just don't believe that would be fair.

RD,

Never say never and that is exactly what my wife and I did for our daughter because it was the best setting for her and she thrived and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Remember, one size does not fit all.
Rick

 

[Bottesini]

Very true. Now it makes sense that when I asked her to state her experience to back up a negative generalization she made about hearing parents of cochlear kids she could not do so.

Just when you thought you heard it all...

Just store it in your mind for a happy memory. My posts usually get removed because I am not gentle.

 

[rockdrummer]

I hate to break it to you, RD, and no disrespect intended, but if he is in a self contained classroom, he is receiving group instruction based on one particular philosophy and using one particular methodology. That is the whole purpose of a self contained classroom. Group instruction.

That is not the case.

 

[rockdrummer]

RD,

Never say never and that is exactly what my wife and I did for our daughter because it was the best setting for her and she thrived and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Remember, one size does not fit all.
Rick

Agree...Your child had a CI though ... right?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

You have brought up a good point. I keep hearing that one size does not fit all, and that each deaf child should be educated individually, yet the mainstream programs quite often use self contained classrooms. What is the purpose of a self contained classroom? It is to put the deaf children in that particular district in a group so that they all can recieve the same instruction using one particular philosophy and methodology. Self contained classrooms blow the "one size does not fit all" argument right out of the water.

It sure would seem to. I was mainstreamed all day. Six classes/six hrs a day. Some of the deaf students at my school were ALSO mainstreamed with me. There were the ones I had the most contact with. I didn't have contact with the deaf students who were in the self contained classes. I should also note there was also another group of students who were designated as special ED. They had ONE teacher for all six classes. Six subjects and one teacher. It was a very confusing system to say the least!

 

[jillio]

Very true. Now it makes sense that when I asked her to state her experience to back up a negative generalization she made about hearing parents of cochlear kids she could not do so.

Just when you thought you heard it all...

Nor are you deaf or a certified teacher of the deaf. Does that make a difference?

 

[jillio]

That is not the case.

Then he is not in a self contained classroom as you stated prior?

 

[Bottesini]

Nor are you deaf or a certified teacher of the deaf. Does that make a difference?

Well, since he has a deaf child he has equal experience to some.

 

[rockdrummer]

How about the overall literacy rates, and the number of deaf students graduating from post secondary programs in proportion to the number of hearing students graduating from post secondary programs? Since TC has been the instruction model most often in use for the past 25-30 years, there is a correlation between the two. How exactly would you explain the overall problems with literacy in deaf students?

Any chance you would share the source of these statistics?

I thought you said earlier that oral was being forced on the majority.

..... If a child can succeed in an oral only environment, that is still an option. But it is being forced on the majority as the educational environment being reccommended for all.......

 

[Cheri]

I think it makes a lot of difference. You are not deaf and you are not a qualified TOD. When anyone deaf with actual experience speaks up in one of these threads they are shot down..

You're absolutely correct; It is like they have to be deaf to actually understand us, but not all hearing people are like that, just some, there are some who can be patient with us, listen to our personal experiences, reaching out helps and always respond in kind like rockdrummer for an example.