Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[shel90]

I know Shel and Jillio are all for BiBi, but I am not too sure about the other people. Are you guys trying to say that one size does not fit all or did you have something in mind?

I know a lot of people believe in that but if so, how can we improve Deaf ed for all? Do we continue with the old beliefs and continue to see a majority of deaf children to be underserviced in the educational settings or try to address the problems?

 

[Daredevel7]

I know a lot of people believe in that but if so, how can we improve Deaf ed for all? Do we continue with the old beliefs and continue to see a majority of deaf children to be underserviced in the educational settings or try to address the problems?

How about instead of trying to find out which is the BEST for majority, what if we try to define the MINIMUM requirements? Or at least what you think should be the minimum requirements? (Or should this be a new thread?)

 

[shel90]

How about instead of trying to find out which is the BEST for majority, what if we try to define the MINIMUM requirements? Or at least what you think should be the minimum requirements? (Or should this be a new thread?)

Just sent u a PM a detailed summary of the BiBi program. Hope that helps u understand.

Define the minimum requirements..what do u mean by that?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I know Shel and Jillio are all for BiBi, but I am not too sure about the other people. Are you guys trying to say that one size does not fit all or did you have something in mind?

I know a lot of people believe in that but if so, how can we improve Deaf ed for all? Do we continue with the old beliefs and continue to see a majority of deaf children to be underserviced in the educational settings or try to address the problems?

I'm for whatever will benefit the deaf child the most. For a small majority, that may be oral only, but for the majority, I support BiBi. BiBi seems to accomodate the needs of deaf children both educationally and socially. The deaf need to have full access to their environment in order to succeed. You're not going to get that in an oral only environment. TC programs also have proved ineffective because of the "smorgasborg" of approaches it offers. In my mind, the best way to teach a deaf child is with ONE WELL DEFINED approach like BiBi.

 

[shel90]

I'm for whatever will benefit the deaf child the most. For a small majority, that may be oral only, but for the majority, I support BiBi. BiBi seems to accomodate the needs of deaf children both educationally and socially. The deaf need to have full access to their environment in order to succeed. You're not going to get that in an oral only environment. TC programs also have proved ineffective because of the "smorgasborg" of approaches it offers. In my mind, the best way to teach a deaf child is with ONE WELL DEFINED approach like BiBi.

and as stated in my post #309, the BiBi approach doesnt eliminate any opportunities for oral/spoken English skills for any of the kids.

 

[Daredevel7]

Just sent u a PM a detailed summary of the BiBi program. Hope that helps u understand.

Define the minimum requirements..what do u mean by that?

Thanks for the summary! Ill read it soon. Minimum requirements such as:
(these are just random examples)
- A form of visual language MUST be primary
- Oral skills MUST be started by 3rd grade
- Reading skills MUST be on par with age
- A test of lipreading skills MUST be assessed by 3 years old.
- Parents MUST sign.
- Cued Speech MUST be taught first.
- Deaf children MUST go to school with other deaf children until high school.
etc. etc. (whatever you think of)

(Yes I like the word MUST)

 

[Oceanbreeze]

and as stated in my post #309, the BiBi approach doesnt eliminate any opportunities for oral/spoken English skills for any of the kids.

I wish we had a BiBi school down here, but we don't. The little girl I spoke of is in a mainstream environment, but her parents have created a BiBi environment for her in their home. I'm sure if we had a BiBi school down here, she'd be there. Fortunately for her, she seems to be doing well in the oral only school environment, but she also is just in first grade. Time will tell how well she does as she gets older. I'm confident that her parents will make adjustments whereever is needed for her to continue her success.

 

[shel90]

I wish we had a BiBi school down here, but we don't. The little girl I spoke of is in a mainstream environment, but her parents have created a BiBi environment for her in their home. I'm sure if we had a BiBi school down here, she'd be there. Fortunately for her, she seems to be doing well in the oral only school environment, but she also is just in first grade. Time will tell how well she does as she gets older. I'm confident that her parents will make adjustments whereever is needed for her to continue her success.

Not only with literacy problems but socio-emotional issues too. Usually those issues show up around 3rd to 4th grade and then they manifest from there.

 

[shel90]

Thanks for the summary! Ill read it soon. Minimum requirements such as:
(these are just random examples)
- A form of visual language MUST be primary
- Oral skills MUST be started by 3rd grade
- Reading skills MUST be on par with age
- A test of lipreading skills MUST be assessed by 3 years old.
- Parents MUST sign.
- Cued Speech MUST be taught first.
- Deaf children MUST go to school with other deaf children until high school.
etc. etc. (whatever you think of)

(Yes I like the word MUST)

LOL! Good suggestions...

Now, we are getting somewhere with different ideas instead of beating a dead horse over and over again.

 

[Tousi]

for the hearing yea spoken language I was talking about deaf children not hearing children.

Never mind if you guys are just going to mock at me forget it, I'm done. Laters.

I wasn't mocking you; I really, truly misunderstood, mainly because I am not following this thread that closely.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Not only with literacy problems but socio-emotional issues too. Usually those issues show up around 3rd to 4th grade and then they manifest from there.

Yeah.. That seems to be when I also had issues socially. It was all downhill from there, too.

 

[Daredevel7]

Not only with literacy problems but socio-emotional issues too. Usually those issues show up around 3rd to 4th grade and then they manifest from there.

Not to show disrespect, but... while I understand the socio-emotional issues you experienced while you were growing up, but don't you think deaf people who spent most of their social lives signing would experience those same socio-emotional issues once they finish school?

Perhaps they still do except they are older and more confident, so they are better equipped to deal with it?

 

[shel90]

Not to show disrespect, but... while I understand the socio-emotional issues you experienced while you were growing up, but don't you think deaf people who spent most of their social lives signing would experience those same socio-emotional issues once they finish school?

Perhaps they still do except they are older and more confident, so they are better equipped to deal with it?[/QUOTE]

We all experience times in our lives when we experience conflict with others but in my situation, I was told or implied that my deafness is something to hide and not to be proud of over the years and as a result, I started to believe that if I tried hard enough, I would be like my hearing peers and can fit in without the communication barriers. I was always apologizing for misunderstandings, for not paying attention in class, for not catching what everyone was saying and etc so I grew believing I was at fault for my deafness and was always working to make up for it only to continue to fail at it. That lead to my severe depression and shame about myself which lead to self-destructive behaviors. My best friend who is deaf and former oral grew up with self-esteem issues and she is still dealing with them cuz she is in a predominately non-signing environment full time and people still get frustrated, irritated, or pissed at her if she misunderstands or misses what they say so it just feeds to her depression. Also, she is still left out in a lot of situations and has to fight for her rights to get full access to communication so it is a constant frustration for her. Because I have both, I am not as constantly frustrated by an environment where access is restricted. I understand that I will be in environments like that but I know it is ok because I understand why and learned how to make the best of it. As a child, nobody showed me that nor taught me that. It was all about my shortcomings.

There are many more issues..

My brother grew up understanding his deafness and that he is not at fualt for some difficult situations and he was able to self-advocate for himself along with many others who grew up with a good understanding and respect of their deafness.

Those are the kinds of socio-emotinal issues I am talking about when replying to Oceanbreeze.

 

[Angel]

Can you tell me why the majority of people who had total communication can't write a proper sentence?

Perhaps it's because others keep putting them down continually instead of helping or encouraging these people who had total communication or was raised orally then attend total communication until much later like my sister and I.

It's not their fault if they can't write properly, some habits are hard to break. It's like saying, why can't a person see well when others can see a certain object in the distance and critizing or making fun of that person just because that person can't see the object. As in life, there are shortcomings and not every one is perfect, but at least the majority will understand what is being said despite a sentence or more not written properly, clearly, the point is being understood. Let's stick with that rather than to keep putting down those who may not be able to write a proper sentence.


Everyone's..both hearing and the deaf have been shown not being able to write properly, but that's according to a standard like yourself adheres to and instead of being encouraging, you seem to constantly keep putting those people down just by the way they write. Such a crying shame. Everyone has their own style and ways, live with it. By doing so, just remember you cannot fully understand the entire way most of these deaf people were raised and how each one went through such total communication at some point in their lives.

Be careful of what you do say, your post may have offended some deaf people here, like myself.

 

[shel90]

Perhaps it's because others keep putting them down continually instead of helping or encouraging these people who had total communication or was raised orally then attend total communication until much later like my sister and I.

It's not their fault if they can't write properly, some habits are hard to break. It's like saying, why can't a person see well when others can see a certain object in the distance and critizing or making fun of that person just because that person can't see the object. As in life, there are shortcomings and not every one is perfect, but at least the majority will understand what is being said despite a sentence or more not written properly, clearly, the point is being understood. Let's stick with that rather than to keep putting down those who may not be able to write a proper sentence.


Everyone's..both hearing and the deaf have been shown not being able to write properly, but that's according to a standard like yourself adheres to and instead of being encouraging, you seem to constantly keep putting those people down just by the way they write. Such a crying shame. Everyone has their own style and ways, live with it. By doing so, just remember you cannot fully understand the entire way most of these deaf people were raised and how each one went through such total communication at some point in their lives.

Be careful of what you do say, your post may have offended some people here, like myself.

Is that ok to let the majority of deaf children go thru the educational system with poor literacy rates?

That's why we need programs that give all deaf children full access to language.

 

[shel90]

What happens when deaf children dont have full access..

The inability of deaf children to hear leads to potential deficiencies and delays in their learning in a typical classroom setting. Comprehension of spoken language presents an obvious hurdle to the deaf student. In an oral-only classroom, they understand less than half of all utterances made by the teacher (Schirmer 2001). Deaf students also have a harder time learning to read and write because of their inability to connect spoken and written language (Bellugi, Tzeng, Klima, and Folk, 1989). Such delays in comprehension and literacy often lead to delays in math and science because of the inability of curriculum created for hearing students to bridge the gaps in language that the deaf often experience (Nunes and Moreno, 2002; Yore, 2000). While there are numerous potential weaknesses for deaf learners, they can develop certain advantages. Many of the deaf use sign language as their primary form of communication.* The unique traits of sign language provide the deaf with potential benefits which can be used to improve their learning.

Cawthon, S. (2001) "Teaching Strategies in Inclusive Classrooms With Deaf Students." Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, 6:3, 212-225.

 

[jillio]

In a university-setting all the articles are freely available to the staff (& students). The University subscribes to the journals.
So, if Jillio is asking money for her "searching" and obtaining the articles, I hope she donates the money to some good cause.

Because it is costing her nothing....

It costs me time, efffort, and skill. Not to mention a priviledge that is not available without paying tuition. Likewise, I have offered said articles, becuase copyright and reproduction laws prevent me from posting a 40 page article here. The stipulation is that you provide me with an email address. If you choose not to do so, there is nothing I can do about it. That is your choice. It leaves you with no option but to access the article any way you can. If you are forced to pay for it, it is the result of your decision.

Likewise, if you want me to locate articles for you. You can do a search the same as I can do a search. If you want me to do the search for you, I will charge you the same fee as I charge anyone for whom I do research.

But, since you also claim that your wife has access to academic data bases, get her to do your research for you.

 

[shel90]

From an article with opinion..*not research*

What is bilingual-bicultural education?

As best as I can understand it - never having experienced it myself - is that it means that ASL is used to teach deaf children, with English taught as a second language. For as long as anyone can remember, the average deaf high school graduate's reading level remained stubbornly low. Many deaf children did succeed but overall, it still remained low. No one knew what would work. Then the evidence of research began to come in: Deaf children of deaf parents tended to do better. More recently, study after study has been released showing that sign language is the default language of deaf children, who ARE visual learners. In Nicaragua, deaf children developed an entire new language on their own.

Independent bilingual-bicultural charter schools began to spring up. Now more schools are beginning to recognize it as well. New York City's JHS 47, a public school for the deaf, announced it would drop total communication in favor of bilingual bicultural. This was big news and even was reported on in the New York Times. This quoted sentence from the article says it all: "Deaf children could not understand their hearing teachers, which has produced failure after failure." [Even if the teachers are deaf, they may not be using ASL].

Communication methods for language development, including sign language

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Perhaps it's because others keep putting them down continually instead of helping or encouraging these people who had total communication or was raised orally then attend total communication until much later like my sister and I.

It's not their fault if they can't write properly, some habits are hard to break. It's like saying, why can't a person see well when others can see a certain object in the distance and critizing or making fun of that person just because that person can't see the object. As in life, there are shortcomings and not every one is perfect, but at least the majority will understand what is being said despite a sentence or more not written properly, clearly, the point is being understood. Let's stick with that rather than to keep putting down those who may not be able to write a proper sentence.


Everyone's..both hearing and the deaf have been shown not being able to write properly, but that's according to a standard like yourself adheres to and instead of being encouraging, you seem to constantly keep putting those people down just by the way they write. Such a crying shame. Everyone has their own style and ways, live with it. By doing so, just remember you cannot fully understand the entire way most of these deaf people were raised and how each one went through such total communication at some point in their lives.

Be careful of what you do say, your post may have offended some deaf people here, like myself.

I'm not attacking individuals or blaming them. I'm blaming the techniques in teaching those children. I would like to see the old teaching methods thrown out and replaced with methods that are proven to work. It's the child that suffers in a system that is not working for them. I think that is unacceptable.

 

[jillio]

155 deaf children out of what? 50,000 deaf children? Thanks that sure gonna help me.

Are you suggesting that research include all 50,000? Do you know what a sample population is? Are you aware of the way research on any given population is done?