Study: 7.3 million in U.S. prison system in '07

Beating should never be involved, that is not intention of boot camp.

Looks like you misunderstand the definitation of boot camp.

I have watch movie about boot camp, champ! They forever changed one person and they usually increase respect and they won't re-commit crime. It has been proven effective, but too bad closed minded don't see it, and still complaining that prison system is not working... go figure.. this is no brainer.

"Forever" is a dangerous word to use. Unless that one individual has been followed from the time they attended boot camp until the time they died, "forever" can't be assumed.

Respect for the law is not the only variable involved in crime.

Verbal disciplinary action is no different from physical disciplinary action. Both are still diciplinary. Both are still not rehabilitation.
 
some of you need to go meet someone who has been to a boot camp, I gurantee they will tell you that they learned a lesson. I saw a documentary about a teenager with drug issue ended up at boot camp, because the rehab didn't help her. Guess what? Boot camp changed her big time and she learned the lesson big time. Why do you think other countries have something similar to boot camp don't commit crimes and crimes are far lower than here. They're afraid of ending up being scolded and do all the labor and displine.
 
It has already been proven, time and time and time again, that punitive justice does nothing to lower crime rates and prevent recidivism. If you want people not to commit crimes, you have to provide them with the skills necessary to survive without crime. That requires not just rehabilitation on the part of the individual, but changes in the way society functions.

Put a person in prison, do not provide them with rehabilitation that provides them the skills they need to survive when they get out, and all you have is someone who is going to go back to committing crime to survive.

I've seen many of you complain that prisoners are put in jail, given 3 meals a day, and allowed to sit around and do nothing. That is because our system is currently functioning from a punitive perspective. Remove them from society, lock them up, and let them do their time. It is the very reason that recidivism rates are so high. We have to rehabilitate them so they are better able to function in society when they are released, and we have to change societal reactions to ex-offenders that restricts their opportunities to live a law abiding life.

Fear of being scolded does nothing to prevent someone from comitting a crime when what they need is a way to put food on the table and a roof over their head. Hunger is far more powerful than a fear of being scolded.
 
It has already been proven, time and time and time again, that punitive justice does nothing to lower crime rates and prevent recidivism. If you want people not to commit crimes, you have to provide them with the skills necessary to survive without crime. That requires not just rehabilitation on the part of the individual, but changes in the way society functions.

Put a person in prison, do not provide them with rehabilitation that provides them the skills they need to survive when they get out, and all you have is someone who is going to go back to committing crime to survive.

I've seen many of you complain that prisoners are put in jail, given 3 meals a day, and allowed to sit around and do nothing. That is because our system is currently functioning from a punitive perspective. Remove them from society, lock them up, and let them do their time. It is the very reason that recidivism rates are so high. We have to rehabilitate them so they are better able to function in society when they are released, and we have to change societal reactions to ex-offenders that restricts their opportunities to live a law abiding life.

Fear of being scolded does nothing to prevent someone from comitting a crime when what they need is a way to put food on the table and a roof over their head. Hunger is far more powerful than a fear of being scolded.

:werd:
 
Well, Granted - the Prisonal/Correctional Systems are much flawed when it comes to treating the prisoners and with due of the society as to how it is collaborated with both worlds.

They think by slamming a prisoner in a prison will immediately solve the problem just like that just because they were removed from the society. It does not always work like that way. Well, it may work for one but again, it doesn't work for others too.

Rehabilitation may be one stance to take up on this. Although, with the rehabilitation that are provided out there - It still may not help because a person has to change him/herself for themselves, not for anyone else. If they can't do that then it is deem to be moot, unfortunately.
 
It has already been proven, time and time and time again, that punitive justice does nothing to lower crime rates and prevent recidivism. If you want people not to commit crimes, you have to provide them with the skills necessary to survive without crime. That requires not just rehabilitation on the part of the individual, but changes in the way society functions.

Put a person in prison, do not provide them with rehabilitation that provides them the skills they need to survive when they get out, and all you have is someone who is going to go back to committing crime to survive.

I've seen many of you complain that prisoners are put in jail, given 3 meals a day, and allowed to sit around and do nothing. That is because our system is currently functioning from a punitive perspective. Remove them from society, lock them up, and let them do their time. It is the very reason that recidivism rates are so high. We have to rehabilitate them so they are better able to function in society when they are released, and we have to change societal reactions to ex-offenders that restricts their opportunities to live a law abiding life.

Fear of being scolded does nothing to prevent someone from comitting a crime when what they need is a way to put food on the table and a roof over their head. Hunger is far more powerful than a fear of being scolded.

as expected from Ministry of Health. MAKE ME PROUD :mad2:
 
Well, Granted - the Prisonal/Correctional Systems are much flawed when it comes to treating the prisoners and with due of the society as to how it is collaborated with both worlds.

They think by slamming a prisoner in a prison will immediately solve the problem just like that just because they were removed from the society. It does not always work like that way. Well, it may work for one but again, it doesn't work for others too.

Rehabilitation may be one stance to take up on this. Although, with the rehabilitation that are provided out there - It still may not help because a person has to change him/herself for themselves, not for anyone else. If they can't do that then it is deem to be moot, unfortunately.

You raise some good points. I personally believe that all humans have the capacity to change. There are two things necessary for that change to occur. One is a desire to change. Second, is the opportunity to change. One can have the desire, but if one is prevented from having the opportunity, then change cannot occur. People do what they do because it is all they know to do, not necessarily because they have no desire to do anything else.

Let's look at it in the form of an analogy. A toddler will often throw a temper tantrum. It is the only way they know how to deal with their frustration, or their desire to get their needs met. When a toddler engages in this behavior, we put them in time out to calm them and get their attention. We then tell them, "If you want the toy truck, and you can't reach it, ask me to help you. Having a temper tantrum is not the way to get your wishes." We discipline them to show them that a tantrum is not acceptable behavior, while at the same time, teach them that there is another, acceptable solution to their problem. That is, in effect, rehabilitation.

A drug addict uses drugs because that is their solution to dealing with day to day problems. They don't have the skills to find an alternative solution to dealing with their problems. They must be taught coping skills that make the use of drugs unnecessary. Those skills allow them to do what they are attempting to do with the drug use...manage and control their life.

The same holds true for the majority of crimes. Murder may perhaps be the one exception, but often violence is the murderer's only way to cope with extreme emotion. Keep in mind that the vast majority of murders committed in this country are "crimes of passion". They are committed during an episode of extreme emotional reaction. The same with many crimes involving violence. The individual does not have the skills necessary to control and deal with strong emotion, and does the only thing they know to do to release it. Goes right back to the toddler having a temper tantrum. He sees something he can't control, it prevents him from getting what he wants or needs, that evokes a strong feeling of frustration and lack of control, and he releases his frustration the only way he knows how...through a tantrum. When we teach him different skills, the tantrums stop.

Punishment alone does not effect lasting change. It only temporarily controls.
 
lol @ this ridiculous "boot camp" discussion.

And people go to prison because they deserve it, not because they werent bottlefed properly growing up. People make choices and understand the consequences of certain actions/behavior. And its sad. Pathetic really.
 
lol @ this ridiculous "boot camp" discussion.

And people go to prison because they deserve it, not because they werent bottlefed properly growing up. People make choices and understand the consequences of certain actions/behavior. And its sad. Pathetic really.

If only it were that simple. How is it that you explain the inequities in justice for the same crime if it is not a social creation? Its not a matter of whether or not people make those choices, but why they are forced into those choices to begin with, and the inequities of the justice once those choices have been made.
 
If only it were that simple. How is it that you explain the inequities in justice for the same crime if it is not a social creation?

perfect example - a regular Joe the Plumber is sentenced to 3 years of jail for a small amount of drug in car whereas a troubled son with well-connected father gets a 3-years of probation for same crime. :mad2:

look at the punishment for different drug. Crack has harsher penalty than Cocaine.
 
perfect example - a regular Joe the Plumber is sentenced to 3 years of jail for a small amount of drug in car whereas a troubled son with well-connected father gets a 3-years of probation for same crime. :mad2:

look at the punishment for different drug. Crack has harsher penalty than Cocaine.

Exactly. Crack has a harsher penalty than powdered cocaine. That harsher penalty is not based on the drug itself, but of the population more inclined to use it. Cocaine is a drug of the more well to do population, crack the underclass.
 
This is a real proof that the justice system in America is NOT working!

Trust me, once we have boot camp and labor camp, we will be seeing a huge drop in crime activity. What I learn while serving jury duty, that many crooks don't mind spend their time in prison because there is nothing to do there but sit and do nothing. No work, no nothing, no rent, no payment for food, all for free just do nothing.

On other hand, if one had to go though boot camp, they will more likely increase respect to the society, and less likely re-comit the crime, same with labor camp, no one wants hellish work, so if one knew they do crime they will do hellish labor, forget it. Resulting reducing in crime activity.
Yeah, I've read stories of homeless people getting themselves put in jail so that they can have a place to eat and sleep.
 
I respect your opinions so everyone is entitled to their opinions so I cannot change what I believe in. :)
 
Yeah, I've read stories of homeless people getting themselves put in jail so that they can have a place to eat and sleep.

And what exactly is it in our society that we would allow that to happen to people?
 
Beating should never be involved, that is not intention of boot camp.

Looks like you misunderstand the definitation of boot camp.

I have watch movie about boot camp, champ! They forever changed one person and they usually increase respect and they won't re-commit crime. It has been proven effective, but too bad closed minded don't see it, and still complaining that prison system is not working... go figure.. this is no brainer.

You are assume about label me as misunderstood over situation with bootcamp. :roll:

Look, I SUPPORT bootcamp for teenagers but adult is in question and I do understand about bootcamp.

There's 2 different way for botcamp, both of teenagers and military training.

Some bootcamps for teenagers have problem with mistreat, however it shouldn't be for people who is sensitive to bootcamp.

Almost all developed countries don't have labor camp, any confirmation?
 
some of you need to go meet someone who has been to a boot camp, I gurantee they will tell you that they learned a lesson. I saw a documentary about a teenager with drug issue ended up at boot camp, because the rehab didn't help her. Guess what? Boot camp changed her big time and she learned the lesson big time. Why do you think other countries have something similar to boot camp don't commit crimes and crimes are far lower than here. They're afraid of ending up being scolded and do all the labor and displine.

I had met couple of students at high school and he went to bootcamp during early teenager and his behavior isn't change after got out of bootcamp then he went again for 2nd time before start 12th grade and his behavior is still no improve, however I don't know about recent because he was graduated from HS in 2005 and other student went to bootcamp for fake bomb threat and it does work for him, he already learn his lesson.

It does work on some people.
 
See there....you are using the word "discipline" in reference to Boot Camp. That one reference in and of itself, shows that Boot Camp is not rehabilitative, but punitve. Punitive=disciplinary.


One thing I have to disagree with about the word Discipline that is being used.



The word discipline means "To teach" "to train"

I am also a firm believer of rehabilitation. So don't get me wrong. The word discipline is often abused itself.
 
You raise some good points. I personally believe that all humans have the capacity to change. There are two things necessary for that change to occur. One is a desire to change. Second, is the opportunity to change. One can have the desire, but if one is prevented from having the opportunity, then change cannot occur. People do what they do because it is all they know to do, not necessarily because they have no desire to do anything else.

Let's look at it in the form of an analogy. A toddler will often throw a temper tantrum. It is the only way they know how to deal with their frustration, or their desire to get their needs met. When a toddler engages in this behavior, we put them in time out to calm them and get their attention. We then tell them, "If you want the toy truck, and you can't reach it, ask me to help you. Having a temper tantrum is not the way to get your wishes." We discipline them to show them that a tantrum is not acceptable behavior, while at the same time, teach them that there is another, acceptable solution to their problem. That is, in effect, rehabilitation.

A drug addict uses drugs because that is their solution to dealing with day to day problems. They don't have the skills to find an alternative solution to dealing with their problems. They must be taught coping skills that make the use of drugs unnecessary. Those skills allow them to do what they are attempting to do with the drug use...manage and control their life.

The same holds true for the majority of crimes. Murder may perhaps be the one exception, but often violence is the murderer's only way to cope with extreme emotion. Keep in mind that the vast majority of murders committed in this country are "crimes of passion". They are committed during an episode of extreme emotional reaction. The same with many crimes involving violence. The individual does not have the skills necessary to control and deal with strong emotion, and does the only thing they know to do to release it. Goes right back to the toddler having a temper tantrum. He sees something he can't control, it prevents him from getting what he wants or needs, that evokes a strong feeling of frustration and lack of control, and he releases his frustration the only way he knows how...through a tantrum. When we teach him different skills, the tantrums stop.

Punishment alone does not effect lasting change. It only temporarily controls.

Yeah - Rehabilitation needs to be taught; For some, they will learn through it to change for the better by learning how to cope with tasks, so and on.

That's just like saying if you were to spank a toddler without an explanation - the more the toddler does not understand why he was received the punishment, the more the toddler will lash out. So, in order for those who were incarcerated; it takes a lot more than an explanation to rehabilitate.
 
I had met couple of students at high school and he went to bootcamp during early teenager and his behavior isn't change after got out of bootcamp then he went again for 2nd time before start 12th grade and his behavior is still no improve, however I don't know about recent because he was graduated from HS in 2005 and other student went to bootcamp for fake bomb threat and it does work for him, he already learn his lesson.

It does work on some people.

Yeah, not everything is garantee to work either being in a prision or go to a boot camp or labor camp or whatever. Some people are hard heads and some aren't.
 
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