Study: 7.3 million in U.S. prison system in '07

You can't accuse anything of being a failure until you know what it is supposed to do in the first place. As no one has yet figured out what the American prison system is supposed to accomplish -- It can't possibly fail at doing it.
 
Bottesini said:
How about the inequity of income and standard of living causes more crime to be committed by the groups who are most incarcerated.

Raise their standards of living and they will commit less crime.
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Absolutely, Bott.

But not only does standard of living and inequity in income cause more crime, it also creates a situation where those who have comitted those crimes are less able to obtain legal counsel, and therefore, are more often incarcerated.
 
DURAY said:
break the law, you go to jail. black-on-black crimes is very high in mnay communities. a cultural thing, go to jail and get 3 meals a day. plus some prisons have work programs inside for free.
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Very simplistic perspective, but also a very mistaken one.
 
Jiro said:
understandable but Jillio's post explained it quite succinctly. Thing is - the election ballot is "standardized" across the states. All 50 states have names of Presidential/VP candidates and all you have to do is pick your choice. simple. just count'em and report it. that's it.

As for compiling statistic among 50 states.... it's a headache because each 50 state has its own parameter/specification. For example (just making it up) - one state considered "hitting a person in any way" a felony while other state considered it as a misdemeanor. There is a federal guideline but it's still a headache. Go to DOJ/FBI/NYC site and download its statistic files. You'll see why.

One can argue that the reason for those confusing & different specifications for crime statistic is for political reason. For example - when running for Mayor/Governor/Senator/etc - typically for re-election... they would like to brag about their "low" crime statistic to make their ass shine brighter. :)
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jillio said:
Because reporting is not as simple as just counting people and reporting those numbers. The reports required detailed information.
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That makes sense now. I get the picture now. So, it's a more complicated process, kinda like doing a census on the national population.
 
If that is so true why we must work to earn living? What difference does this make?

Boot camp is about earning respect and learn to respect others. Todays, most criminals lack most important part of living and that is called RESPECT. So, that means boot camp is rehabitative because it teaches them respect. Usually at the end of boot camp, they will respect the law, and will most likely not re-commit the crime.

Stealing is like getting away without working for it, so labor camp forced them to work for what they have stolen, so in the end, they will become more willing to work to get something. With experience at labor camp no one want to try to mess up with this one.

jillio said:
Boot camp and labor camp are not considered rehabilitative. They are punitive.
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diehardbiker said:
If that is so true why we must work to earn living? What difference does this make?

Boot camp is about earning respect and learn to respect others. Todays, most criminals lack most important part of living and that is called RESPECT. So, that means boot camp is rehabitative because it teaches them respect. Usually at the end of boot camp, they will respect the law, and will most likely not re-commit the crime.

Stealing is like getting away without working for it, so labor camp forced them to work for what they have stolen, so in the end, they will become more willing to work to get something. With experience at labor camp no one want to try to mess up with this one.
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No, Boot camp doesn't solve anything to teach them to learn how respect and self-respect but violence...

There're counsellor, social workers, therapies, sports, etc in Junivlle jail.
 
diehardbiker said:
Where is rehabilation? Yeah, there is two kinds of places called Boot camp and labor camp.

Because of political and ACLUA whose thinks boot camp and labor camp is abusive and excessive and considered cruel and unusual punishment.... Yeah right! Sitting in jail do nothing for too long is worse than hard labor or boot camp where they won't cause obesity, a serious health hazard from sitting and do nothing for too long!

Isn't it time for serious penal code reform?
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If supreme court say both of them are unconstitutional due 8th Amendment then you are out of choice.

Boot camp is currently legal for teenagers and none of staff have rights to beat or mistreat them.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
No, Boot camp doesn't solve anything to teach them to learn how respect and self-respect but violence...

There're counsellor, social workers, therapies, sports, etc in Junivlle jail.
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It does work for selective people, not all of them.
 
diehardbiker said:
If that is so true why we must work to earn living? What difference does this make?

Boot camp is about earning respect and learn to respect others. Todays, most criminals lack most important part of living and that is called RESPECT. So, that means boot camp is rehabitative because it teaches them respect. Usually at the end of boot camp, they will respect the law, and will most likely not re-commit the crime.
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You lost me. :scratch: How will boot camp disuasde a hardcore junkie from chasing that next high? If a person has no way to earn any kind of living after release from "boot camp" what's to keep them on the straight and narrow? Gotta make a living somehow. Standing on the corner making a drug deal doesn't require any kind of discernable skills and the pay is great. Illegal and wrong, true..but when you don't have any life skills/job skills you do what you must to survive on the streets. Respect for the law is inconsequential when you can't do for yourself.

:doh: I'm just not a very good debater. Jillio, where are you??
 
society's_child said:
You lost me. :scratch: How will boot camp disuasde a hardcore junkie from chasing that next high? If a person has no way to earn any kind of living after release from "boot camp" what's to keep them on the straight and narrow? Gotta make a living somehow. Standing on the corner making a drug deal doesn't require any kind of discernable skills and the pay is great. Illegal and wrong, true..but when you don't have any life skills/job skills you do what you must to survive on the streets. Respect for the law is inconsequential when you can't do for yourself.

:doh: I'm just not a very good debater. Jillio, where are you??
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I'm right here...and you made the point very well. Respect doesn't put food inyour mouth or a roof over your head. Job skills do. Life skills allow you to put job skills to use. Crime of the type that we most often incarecerate for, especially the poor and the minority, occurs because our society tells it's members that we must attain certain things, and then successfully prevents that segment from having useful means for attaining that which we say they must have. So they use the means available to them.
 
jillio said:
I'm right here...and you made the point very well. Respect doesn't put food inyour mouth or a roof over your head. Job skills do. Life skills allow you to put job skills to use. Crime of the type that we most often incarecerate for, especially the poor and the minority, occurs because our society tells it's members that we must attain certain things, and then successfully prevents that segment from having useful means for attaining that which we say they must have. So they use the means available to them.
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Thank you! Couldn't agree more.
 
I support rehabilitation for drug users who convicted from illegal drugs but sadly, I know some drug users are in jail for over years like 10 years for sell or possession of illegal drugs.
 
Do you know what boot camp is? It is almost same as military training camp, where there is tons tons tons of disciplines going on. There is no hitting involved there. All is done though verbal.

No one likes to be disciplines, real disciplines = real rehabilation.

If you meet many of convicts, u will find couple patterns there... lack of respect AND they usually dont care. How do you rehab somebody who don't give damn?


society's_child said:
You lost me. :scratch: How will boot camp disuasde a hardcore junkie from chasing that next high? If a person has no way to earn any kind of living after release from "boot camp" what's to keep them on the straight and narrow? Gotta make a living somehow. Standing on the corner making a drug deal doesn't require any kind of discernable skills and the pay is great. Illegal and wrong, true..but when you don't have any life skills/job skills you do what you must to survive on the streets. Respect for the law is inconsequential when you can't do for yourself.

:doh: I'm just not a very good debater. Jillio, where are you??
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Beating should never be involved, that is not intention of boot camp.

Looks like you misunderstand the definitation of boot camp.

I have watch movie about boot camp, champ! They forever changed one person and they usually increase respect and they won't re-commit crime. It has been proven effective, but too bad closed minded don't see it, and still complaining that prison system is not working... go figure.. this is no brainer.

Foxrac said:
If supreme court say both of them are unconstitutional due 8th Amendment then you are out of choice.

Boot camp is currently legal for teenagers and none of staff have rights to beat or mistreat them.
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diehardbiker said:
Do you know what boot camp is? It is almost same as military training camp, where there is tons tons tons of disciplines going on. There is no hitting involved there. All is done though verbal.

No one likes to be disciplines, real disciplines = real rehabilation.

If you meet many of convicts, u will find couple patterns there... lack of respect AND they usually dont care. How do you rehab somebody who don't give damn?
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Yes I do know what boot camp is. Still doesn't change the fact that you're oversimplifying the problem. I've also noticed you're throwing around alot of "usually's" ("usually by the end of boot camp, they will respect the law".."they usually don't care.." Care to provide back up sources for those statements?
 
diehardbiker said:
Do you know what boot camp is? It is almost same as military training camp, where there is tons tons tons of disciplines going on. There is no hitting involved there. All is done though verbal.

No one likes to be disciplines, real disciplines = real rehabilation.

If you meet many of convicts, u will find couple patterns there... lack of respect AND they usually dont care. How do you rehab somebody who don't give damn?
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No, boot camp and military training camp are not same.

No, rehabilation and discipline are not same.
 
diehardbiker said:
Do you know what boot camp is? It is almost same as military training camp, where there is tons tons tons of disciplines going on. There is no hitting involved there. All is done though verbal.

No one likes to be disciplines, real disciplines = real rehabilation.

If you meet many of convicts, u will find couple patterns there... lack of respect AND they usually dont care. How do you rehab somebody who don't give damn?
Click to expand...

See there....you are using the word "discipline" in reference to Boot Camp. That one reference in and of itself, shows that Boot Camp is not rehabilitative, but punitve. Punitive=disciplinary.
 
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