Start with spoken language or ASL?

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Daredevel7 said:
Where was he coming from? Another program? Mainstream school? What?
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Mainstreamed oral only just like you and me. He is not the only one...there are numerous others. Makes me wonder where they would be at if they had ASL in the first place but too late for them. Oh well.
 
Daredevel7 said:
What makes you so sure that it has nothing to do with your program being more supportive? It seems to me that even though we may disagree on some issues, you (or your program) go the extra mile for your clients, and I do believe that reinforcement and great support for the child is a HUGE key to their development. My mom and my speech therapist went the extra mile for me, not just doing their job, and I feel that it made such a huge difference.
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Because our program is a Deaf ed program with staff who are trained in the field of deaf education and know how to employ classroom strategies that fit deaf children's visual needs. We strive to meet all deaf children's deaf needs first and provide a language that all have access to equally just like hearing kids have full access to spoken language in the classroom.

I just teach my class just like a hearing teacher teaches a class full of hearing kids but I use ASL while the hearing teacher uses Spoken English. I use more visuals but now, the public school curriculm are starting to adopt visuals into the curriculm cuz some hearing kids do benefit greatly from visuals too.


Other than that, there is no other differences. I teach using the public school curriculm on the 4th grade level.
ASL is not a teaching strategy.
 
shel90 said:
Just like this oral boy who got referred to our program last year who has good speech skills but was reading at kindergarten level when he should have been reading at 4th grade level? And he was fitted with hearing aids since birth..HOH with a dB level of 40 to 50 range...

A year later, he is almost all caught up..apparently he had no congitive processing issues so it must be the lack of a linguistically rich environment that contributed to his delays? No? Whew! lucky he is almost caught up..
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I don't know. that is unfortunate that he was so behind. maybe it has to do with lack of GOOD speech therapy and/or parents reinforcing those skills? his personality? my hearing is WAY worse than that boy's, however my reading skills were WAY ahead for someone my age.
seems like a # of outside factors contributed to his delays, not the fact that he was started orally.

let me ask this... if starting orally is not the best way to go, then how do u explain how the lot of us who are totally oral and successful. How did that work?
 
Daredevel7 said:
What makes you so sure that it has nothing to do with your program being more supportive? It seems to me that even though we may disagree on some issues, you (or your program) go the extra mile for your clients, and I do believe that reinforcement and great support for the child is a HUGE key to their development. My mom and my speech therapist went the extra mile for me, not just doing their job, and I feel that it made such a huge difference.
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yeah my parents and my speech therapist went the extra mile for me too. I KNOW that it made a huge difference for me. I wouldn't be where I am today if not for them. my therapist + my parents + binaural amplification = fabulous! :D
like 'Imdeafsowhat' said in an earlier posts. Its got a lot to do with confidence and parents :)
 
Here is a question. Is it possible that a child who learned ASL first will refuse or at least learn spoken English half assed? I know I seem to put a lot of importance in spoken English. I do think its important skill to have if you want to interact with hearing people in the adult life. One cannot depend on interpreters and other things for life. I know people have said "research shows ASL helps with spoken English" but Im asking if its POSSIBLE that they will depend on ASL so much that they will not focus on spoken English at all?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Here is a question. Is it possible that a child who learned ASL first will refuse or at least learn spoken English half assed? I know I seem to put a lot of importance in spoken English. I do think its important skill to have if you want to interact with hearing people in the adult life. One cannot depend on interpreters and other things for life. I know people have said "research shows ASL helps with spoken English" but Im asking if its POSSIBLE that they will depend on ASL so much that they will not focus on spoken English at all?
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I have many deaf friends who grew up with ASL who have decent oral skills and excellent literacy skills. :dunno:
 
sirena rossa said:
yeah my parents and my speech therapist went the extra mile for me too. I KNOW that it made a huge difference for me. I wouldn't be where I am today if not for them. my therapist + my parents + binaural amplification = fabulous! :D
like 'Imdeafsowhat' said in an earlier posts. Its got a lot to do with confidence and parents :)
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Interesting..those who fell so far behind also have parents who are fully involved in their education.

My mom was one of them and the oral-only approach didnt work for my deaf brother while it worked for me.

Using your logic, it would mean that my mom was more supportive with my speech therapy than she was with my brother's? Interesting.
 
sirena rossa said:
I don't know. that is unfortunate that he was so behind. maybe it has to do with lack of GOOD speech therapy and/or parents reinforcing those skills? his personality? my hearing is WAY worse than that boy's, however my reading skills were WAY ahead for someone my age.
seems like a # of outside factors contributed to his delays, not the fact that he was started orally.

let me ask this... if starting orally is not the best way to go, then how do u explain how the lot of us who are totally oral and successful. How did that work?
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You re-enforce what I have said before. There are many things that could influence language delays including all of the things that you mentioned. And you also bring up compelling arguments towards learning English as a first language. What about all of the success stories. My point is that nobody can say conclusivly learning ASL or English first is going to be best. Nobody is qualified to make that statement nor are there metrics to support such a claim.
 
shel90 said:
I have many deaf friends who grew up with ASL who have decent oral skills and excellent literacy skills. :dunno:
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Everyone has friends who grew up with ___ and they have excellent ____. Everyone is varied. I'm asking if it's possible that a deaf child will not put as much focus on spoken English because he already knows ASL.
 
shel90 said:
Using your logic, it would mean that my mom was more supportive with my speech therapy than she was with my brother's? Interesting.
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You just gave evidence that one size does not fit all.
 
rockdrummer said:
You re-enforce what I have said before. There are many things that could influence language delays including all of the things that you mentioned. And you also bring up compelling arguments towards learning English as a first language. What about all of the success stories. My point is that nobody can say conclusivly learning ASL or English first is going to be best. Nobody is qualified to make that statement nor are there metrics to support such a claim.
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And we will never know until the child starts expressing him or herself and it is usually by around 5 when language deficients are recognized if there is an expert capable of it around. Then, it is like..oh this child is not doing well in a spoken environment, this child needs ASL but the problem is that the child has to learn ASL at the age of 5 to establish a strong foundation when he/she should be passing the readiness milestones so have to hold the readiness milestones for a couple of more years until the child's language is fully establish and by then the child is 7 or 8 , then can teach them reading and writing.

That puts a lot of children at risks and I prefer to establish safeguards. That is all I want.
 
shel90 said:
Interesting..those who fell so far behind also have parents who are fully involved in their education.

My mom was one of them and the oral-only approach didnt work for my deaf brother while it worked for me.

Using your logic, it would mean that my mom was more supportive with my speech therapy than she was with my brother's? Interesting.
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Shel, of course i would never imply that ur mom was more supportive with u but not ur brother. (i hope u didn't take offense to my statement, that was never my intention :) I just brought that up as a POSSIBLE factor? in ur case, it wasn't one. but maybe in some others it is? I don't know.
It could actually be a case of improper HAs for some ppl. For me, i need pretty strong amplification. Maybe in some cases the kid's hearing aids were actually just satisfactory rather than fantastic? And the audiologist wasnt very experienced? I have seen quite a few who were horrendous and shouldnt be working as one! lol.
 
sirena rossa said:
Shel, of course i would never imply that ur mom was more supportive with u but not ur brother. (i hope u didn't take offense to my statement, that was never my intention :) I just brought that up as a POSSIBLE factor? in ur case, it wasn't one. but maybe in some others it is? I don't know.
It could actually be a case of improper HAs for some ppl. For me, i need pretty strong amplification. Maybe in some cases the kid's hearing aids were actually just satisfactory rather than fantastic? And the audiologist wasnt very experienced? I have seen quite a few who were horrendous and shouldnt be working as one! lol.[/QUOTE)

No, u didnt say that..I was applying your logic because if I was going to use it, then that was what it would have meant.

My brother and I were both born with the same bilateral dB loss...he was fitted with HAs at a much younger age than I was.

We both went to the same oral preschool program. Had the same teachers..same approaches used on us.

We had the same audi but she wasnt responsible for our language development process...just making sure we were fitted with the right HAs.

Despite being in a comprehensive and intensive oral-only program, my brother couldnt develop any oral skills at all but the specialists told my mom to wait and see (the wait and see approach) and he was enrolled at the same public school I was fully oral. Fortunately for my brother, someone at my school saw his struggles and spoke up..called an IEP meeting and suggested to my mom that he should go to the deaf school. My mom was apprehensive cuz of the stigma attached to ASL and Deaf schools but she went for it. Within a few years, my brother blossomed but was late in learning how to read and write since he needed the time for his language foundation to be established first since it wasnt during his first 5 years of his life.
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shel90 said:
And we will never know until the child starts expressing him or herself and it is usually by around 5 when language deficients are recognized if there is an expert capable of it around. Then, it is like..oh this child is not doing well in a spoken environment, this child needs ASL but the problem is that the child has to learn ASL at the age of 5 to establish a strong foundation when he/she should be passing the readiness milestones so have to hold the readiness milestones for a couple of more years until the child's language is fully establish and by then the child is 7 or 8 , then can teach them reading and writing.

That puts a lot of children at risks and I prefer to establish safeguards. That is all I want.
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But the SAME type of logic applies if this deaf child is fitted with a CI or HA. then a foundation in spoken language needs to be established as well, otherwise what was the point in getting a CI/HA.
It just seems like that a lot (and i dont mean just ppl in this forum - i mean people IN GENERAL, both hearing and deaf and HoH) of people think its better to begin with JUST ASL first.
So, if u ask me, regarding the situation of a deaf child with hearing aids or a cochlear implant the best bet is to either 1) begin with Spoken Language first. or 2) use a Bi/Bi or TC approach first.
 
Daredevel7 said:
You just gave evidence that one size does not fit all.
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And by using your logic...too bad for those who werent able to develop oral skills? Where are their rights? Why should their rights to full access to language be denied just for the "wait and see " approach?
 
shel90 said:
And by using your logic...too bad for those who werent able to develop oral skills? Where are their rights? Why should their rights to full access to language be denied just for the "wait and see " approach?
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And by using your logic, too bad for those with good oral skills who could have developed earlier? Where are THEIR rights?

And Im still waiting to see what the "wait and see" approach is....
 
Yes but according to Shel90 and Jillio, the wait and see approach takes years? Or at least thats the impression I got.
 
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