Start with spoken language or ASL?

[web730]

I would start with SEE.

I believe SEE can be good since it's a sign language with straight English.

However, we haven't seen enough resources/facts to back that kind of method as of yet since it's used by very few deaf people considered.

Quite an irony, is it?

 

[shel90]

Great! That's all I ask for. I wanted to see people's responses and why (including their own personal experiences). I personally believe that ASL first would have limited me in indirect ways (family, work, so on). Of course, we don't know for sure. I just find it interesting to think about those kinda things.

ASL never limited my brother or many of my Deaf friends..My brother is pursuing his Master's at a private college so if ASL is limiting then I have never met a Deaf person who has been limited by ASL.

 

[jillio]

I assumed that since the tv captions it should help deaf kids to learn English bit more yet we were told by the school superintendent that he found out the school kids are way behind with the reading... worse than the ones before the cc times. wtf? I pondered.

Interesting enough, it didn't help that much apparently. So we then believe that it has to do with the reading (books, not tv cc) like he mentioned that he plans to stress much more on reading especially in the school system underway.

I don't think that we will see literacy rates increase for the majority until we adopt a bi-bi philosophy in teaching. The captions indeed provide for more practice in reading, but if the child is language deprived and suffering from delays, they are still going to have difficulty even with the captions. Comprehension is the key, and that is all tied into language acquisition and development. But then, I think I'm telling you what you already know.

 

[jillio]

I believe SEE can be good since it's a sign language with straight English.

However, we haven't seen enough resources/facts to back that kind of method as of yet since it's used by very few deaf people considered.

Quite an irony, is it?

We've seen the opposite. SEE is the mode most often used by TC programs. TC programs have not been shown to increase literacy over the last 30 years.

I agree that SEE can be a useful tool for teaching in specific situations. But as a primary method of visual communication it has experienced many, many problems that we can see evidence of on a daily basis.

 

[Daredevel7]

I've already answered that question, less than 30 minutes ago, but I'll do it again. I have a profoundly deaf son, have been connected to the Deaf community for over 22 years, am a Master's level professional working in the field, and am completing my PhD. I am also fluent in ASL, SEE1, SEE2, and PSE.

I didn't see that answer in this thread. Anyhoo, that's cool. I wasn't sure if you were striving to be an audiologist or speech therapist, because it seemed that you were doing a lot of studies and testing. I think we disagree a lot here because I'm inquiring information about a select few deaf people and maybe you're thinking more about the general deaf population.

 

[shezzbeav]

I'm a hard-core bookworm, so I'd definitely expose my children to books from birth and onwards. As for watching TV with sounds, captions would DEFINITELY be on so I can enjoy watching TV with my children and they can also learn to read at the same time as listening to people talking on TV.

 

[web730]

We've seen the opposite. SEE is the mode most often used by TC programs. TC programs have not been shown to increase literacy over the last 30 years.

I agree that SEE can be a useful tool for teaching in specific situations. But as a primary method of visual communication it has experienced many, many problems that we can see evidence of on a daily basis.

Ok, I see... thanks for the clearer explanation as why it didn't work out well. hmm

 

[jillio]

I didn't see that answer in this thread. Anyhoo, that's cool. I wasn't sure if you were striving to be an audiologist or speech therapist, because it seemed that you were doing a lot of studies and testing. I think we disagree a lot here because I'm inquiring information about a select few deaf people and maybe you're thinking more about the general deaf population.

My research and studies are of a psychological and educational nature.

And I will agree that I focus from a population wide perspective. We have to do that to set policy. We set policy based on the majority, not on a few outliers.

 

[web730]

I'm a hard-core bookworm, so I'd definitely expose my children to books from birth and onwards. As for watching TV with sounds, captions would DEFINITELY be on so I can enjoy watching TV with my children and they can also learn to read at the same time as listening to people talking on TV.

OIC That's good being a bookworm which I wish I am. I did read lot for few years just before year 2001, but now I read considerably less due to lack of time and effort. But hope to read bit more.

No harm using tv cc on whenever you and your kids watch. To think how luck they are since I had no tv cc in my childhood time... man, it sucks. lol

 

[Daredevel7]

ASL never limited my brother or many of my Deaf friends..My brother is pursuing his Master's at a private college so if ASL is limiting then I have never met a Deaf person who has been limited by ASL.

Maybe limited is the incorrect word. I can't really express myself as well. Let me try an example. Short story of me: mainstreamed since pre-k, went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) and then got my masters in Mechanical Engineering at Georgia Tech. Now let's say I learned ASL first. What if I felt more comfortable around deaf people than hearing people because my oral skills still kinda sucked? So what if this influences me to go to a deaf college because I can take advantage of having ASL around me at all times? I wouldn't miss out anything, I feel happier with my deaf peers than hearing peers. Even though I would still get a solid education at a deaf college, I am PRETTY sure that I got the job I have because I went to RPI and Georgia Tech, both well known and tough colleges. Thats why I say for ME, I feel that it could possibly be limiting. It may not. I may be wrong. This is alllll speculation, but that's why I feel that oral's best for me.

 

[shel90]

Maybe limited is the incorrect word. I can't really express myself as well. Let me try an example. Short story of me: mainstreamed since pre-k, went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) and then got my masters in Mechanical Engineering at Georgia Tech. Now let's say I learned ASL first. What if I felt more comfortable around deaf people than hearing people because my oral skills still kinda sucked? So what if this influences me to go to a deaf college because I can take advantage of having ASL around me at all times? I wouldn't miss out anything, I feel happier with my deaf peers than hearing peers. Even though I would still get a solid education at a deaf college, I am PRETTY sure that I got the job I have because I went to RPI and Georgia Tech, both well known and tough colleges. Thats why I say for ME, I feel that it could possibly be limiting. It may not. I may be wrong. This is alllll speculation, but that's why I feel that oral's best for me.

Maybe for you but I know two deaf guys who grew up ASL who are engineers at IMB in New York City. Like I said, it has never been proved that ASL has limited deaf people as many of my friends proved all the stereotypings out there wrong.

 

[jillio]

Maybe limited is the incorrect word. I can't really express myself as well. Let me try an example. Short story of me: mainstreamed since pre-k, went to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) and then got my masters in Mechanical Engineering at Georgia Tech. Now let's say I learned ASL first. What if I felt more comfortable around deaf people than hearing people because my oral skills still kinda sucked? So what if this influences me to go to a deaf college because I can take advantage of having ASL around me at all times? I wouldn't miss out anything, I feel happier with my deaf peers than hearing peers. Even though I would still get a solid education at a deaf college, I am PRETTY sure that I got the job I have because I went to RPI and Georgia Tech, both well known and tough colleges. Thats why I say for ME, I feel that it could possibly be limiting. It may not. I may be wrong. This is alllll speculation, but that's why I feel that oral's best for me.

What makes you so sure that you wouldn't get a solid education at a deaf college?

 

[web730]

I've already answered that question, less than 30 minutes ago, but I'll do it again. I have a profoundly deaf son, have been connected to the Deaf community for over 22 years, am a Master's level professional working in the field, and am completing my PhD. I am also fluent in ASL, SEE1, SEE2, and PSE.

I was wondering how come you know so much stuff, but I get it now... was to ask you long ago but slipped somehow. lol

Just knew that you're a hearing person yet didn't know you have a profound deaf son... cool!

All of my siblings and their spouses are PHDs yet I have no college degree (withdrew from college)... me a black sheep in my family. lol

So congrats on your way to earn your PHD - soon to be a Dr. Jillio!

 

[jillio]

I was wondering how come you know so much stuff, but I get it now... was to ask you long ago but slipped somehow. lol

Just knew that you're a hearing person yet didn't know you have a profound deaf son... cool!

All of my siblings and their spouses are PHDs yet I have no college degree (withdrew from college)... me a black sheep in my family. lol

So congrats on your way to earn your PHD - soon to be a Dr. Jillio!

Thanks! I can use all the luck I can get at this point.

Yep, got a deaf son, and raised him in a bi-bi home. So I'm not recommending anything I don't already know to work.

Nothing wrong with dropping out of college. I raised my son before I came back to work on my PhD. When you decide you are ready, you will probably go back.

 

[Daredevel7]

What makes you so sure that you wouldn't get a solid education at a deaf college?

Who said that? I said "even though I would get a solid education at a deaf college".

The harsh reality is that in my field, companies are more about colleges that are well known and have a great reputation in engineering. I think it's worth it because I love my job.

 

[jillio]

Who said that? I said "even though I would get a solid education at a deaf college".

The harsh reality is that in my field, companies are more about colleges that are well known and have a great reputation in engineering. I think it's worth it because I love my job.

My bad. I misread.

 

[Wokamuka]

It's who you know that determines your future. That is a given.

The topic of this thread is: "Start with spoken language or ASL?"

I'd like to believe that I speaks proper english like what we does and my native language is American Sign Language.

Research has, recently, proven that pre-spoken language humans are inclined to use a form of sign language to achieve a desired purpose.

Sign language is an innate form of language for ALL people; it is a given.

Why, then, is sign language (of any form and of any age) so greatly despised by the predominant audist society that we live within?

Fear of unlikeness?

 

[shel90]

It's who you know that determines your future. That is a given.

The topic of this thread is: "Start with spoken language or ASL?"

I'd like to believe that I speaks proper english like what we does and my native language is American Sign Language.

Research has, recently, proven that pre-spoken language humans are inclined to use a form of sign language to achieve a desired purpose.

Sign language is an innate form of language for ALL people; it is a given.

Why, then, is sign language (of any form and of any age) so greatly despised by the predominant audist society that we live within?

Fear of unlikeness?[/QUOTE]

That's what I suspect too.

 

[shel90]

Who said that? I said "even though I would get a solid education at a deaf college".

The harsh reality is that in my field, companies are more about colleges that are well known and have a great reputation in engineering. I think it's worth it because I love my job.

I am glad you love your job. Not very many people are as fortunate as we are to work at jobs we love.

 

[Cheri]

We've seen the opposite. SEE is the mode most often used by TC programs. TC programs have not been shown to increase literacy over the last 30 years.

ASL and SEE..

In some total communication program, they may use ASL, and some others may use SEE.

Raising Deaf Kids

What happens in a TC program

All TC programs are not the same:

* In some TC programs, teachers and children always speak and sign at the same time. This is called simultaneous communication, or simcom.
o These programs encourage children to use the hearing they have left.
o These programs encourage children to talk and learn language.
o These programs usually follow a signing system based on English.
* In some TC programs, teachers emphasize learning language.
o Teachers may sign without speaking at the same time.
o Teachers may spend less time on using the hearing that is left and talking.
o These programs may use American Sign Language (ASL). ASL does not match spoken English.

.