Some Parents Choose Not to Allow Their Kids to Hear Obama's National Address

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Reba said:
That's my point. How can ADers accuse others of having covert racism if it's subconscious?
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It's subconscious for the people who are being racist. Targets and observers of covert racism can be and often are perfectly aware of it.
 
CJB said:
No, it's not. As a liberal, I admit myself there are racist liberals. There are also non-racist conservatives.
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I agree. That's why I was being facetious. The whole dispute about whatever Obama is doing shouldn't always be made into a dispute about race. The issues should stand or fall on their own merits.
 
CJB said:
It's subconscious for the people who are being racist. Targets and observers of covert racism can be and often are perfectly aware of it.
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The "targets" and observers can also be wrong, being influenced by their own prejudices and issues.
 
Babyblue said:
This is his Speech.. It has been released. NO big deal! I can not believe all this fuss over it!! Good grief!!


Obama urges responsibility in speech he'll make to students
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I think is a horrible speech to read to kids that are only 5 years old! Obama is laying a heavy guilt trip on kids that they have to out save the world at such a young age! And he whine about having to get up at 4:30 AM to study! It is not Obama place or job to TELL our kids and grandkid what to DO! I do not want my grandchild hearing this speech on her first day of school! Yes it is Obama's speech BUT it to OUR KIDS he it reading it too! Next Obama will be telling us what we can and can't NOT DO! BabyBlue , you better open your eyes before it too late! I voted for a president to run
our country not our life!
 
Reba said:
I agree. That's why I was being facetious. The whole dispute about whatever Obama is doing shouldn't always be made into a dispute about race. The issues should stand or fall on their own merits.
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As do I. However there are some people, not necessarily conservatives, that didn't vote for Obama because of his race. I doubt in this day and age it would be the sole factor, but there are people for whom covert racism plays a factor in the decisions they make about people, and not voting for Obama would be one of those where race probably played a factor on a subconscious level.
 
CJB said:
As do I. However there are some people, not necessarily conservatives, that didn't vote for Obama because of his race. I doubt in this day and age it would be the sole factor, but there are people for whom covert racism plays a factor in the decisions they make about people, and not voting for Obama would be one of those where race probably played a factor on a subconscious level.
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For me and the conservatives I know, we weren't going to vote for a Democrat no matter who their candidate was from the primary group. Race, sex, age, etc., didn't matter. Political philosophy and record was the focus.

On the other hand, if a black conservative had been in the running, I would have definitely considered voting for him or her. Again, it would depend on the candidate's political philosophy and record.
 
CJB said:
As do I. However there are some people, not necessarily conservatives, that didn't vote for Obama because of his race. I doubt in this day and age it would be the sole factor, but there are people for whom covert racism plays a factor in the decisions they make about people, and not voting for Obama would be one of those where race probably played a factor on a subconscious level.
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Speaking for me, I haven't voted for anyone since the first Clinton term.
 
I wouldn't accuse most liberals of racism, but an awful lot (thankfully, not all) have no problem trivializing such a serious accusation as racism. Racism should not be taken lightly and smearing someone as racist just to avoid confronting their ideas is pathetic. If you're going to hurl the racism charge, you better be able to back it up. If all you have is some psycho-babble about their "subconscious" racism that they don't even know about which manifests itself in very "subtle" ways, then you have nothing.
 
Reba said:
Maybe in your mind.

Which posters in this thread have said that they don't want their children to watch the President's speech because he's black?


No relevance at all.


Even if your supposition is true, where is the proof that the "other things" are about race?

The people with whom I discuss politics, or watch on TV, or listen to on the radio, or read in the paper or online who disagree with Obama's political ways have never mentioned having a problem with his race.

Why can't you admit that people can have political disagreements that don't involve race?

BTW, I had plenty of complaints about Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton when they were in office, and they were Southern white good ol' boys.
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That's the issue of covert racial prejudice, Reba. They don't mention it. In fact, they go out of their way to deny it. That is why it is known as covert racism. However, there are certain variables to look to from a sociological perspective that will indicate the presence of covert racism. And those are evident not just in some of the posters of this board, but nationwide.

Of course people can disagree politically without it having to be about race. People can also disagree politicially without it having to be about party. But the fact that you mentioned only disagreement with examples from the Democratic party shows that you make those same assumptions based on lables.
 
netrox said:
Race is always AN issue no matter how much conservatives and liberals want to admit.

I didn't want a black president but Obama transcended that race and as a result, I voted for him. Also, I believe he's a lesser evil of two. It's that simple. I have prejudices but I am very polite and would not impose my prejudices on people.

Conservatives on the other hand WANT to impose their prejudices on us. Don't like gays? So what. Leave them alone. When gays want to marry, they want to deny their right. That's an issue I have with them.

Conservatives did not want blacks to have equal rights. They considered them inferior. That I have an issue when it comes to treating them in terms of legal rights. I hold low opinions of the black community in general but would I apply that to black individuals? No.


I feel the same for the gay community but I wouldn't for individual gays.

I am sure many liberals are racists or homophobes but uphold the belief that they believe they should not impose their prejudices on them. Conservatives, on the other hand, want to impose them and make laws based on their prejudices.
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Of course it's always an issue. Those that deny that it is are the very ones that harbor covert racial attitudes. They don't seem to grasp the fact that their very denial of the fact is what points to their covert racism.
 
CJB said:
:roll: Not allowing your kids to see the president's address? He's the president. Even if you vehemently disagree with his politics, you should keep up with what he's doing. In fact, all the more reason to keep up so you're in the know.

I can't stand how sometimes people see what they don't like and then decide to act like it doesn't exist.
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It is up to the parents what their kids watch! I do not think Obama would want anyone getting on TV and telling his kids what to do!
 
darkdog said:
I still see no difference. I didn't think he was a worthy candidate to vote for. However, that doesn't mean I have to assume his voters felt the same way and only voted for him to stick it to the white man. Likewise, you may not think his critics' concerns are valid, but that doesn't mean you have to assume they feel the same way and only want to stick it to the black man.

I'm trying to figure this out. Bringing up race is not racist, but constantly mentioning race is racist. Maybe if I just bring it up occasionally but not constantly?

Also, what if I bring up race to expose what I perceive to be the covert racist attitudes of his supporters*? According to you, that should be particularly non-racist. But wait, isn't that exactly what you were criticizing in that thread? Or is it only acceptable when exposing the perceived covert racist attitudes of his critics? What if both perceptions are simply wrong? Is one then more acceptable than the other?


* I don't actually think his supporters hold covert racist attitudes. This is just for the sake of argument.
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It is a matter of context and intent. Let me ask you this: how many preachers did we see in the news praying for the death of let's say, Jimmy Carter? Or any other President that you would care to mention. How many labels have been applied to past Presidents in the same way they are being applied by a fringe minority in the current situation? How many parents kept their children home from school for Bush's nationally televised address to school children, or Ronald Reagan's nationally broadcast address to school children? I can go on and on and on, and when it comes down to the final analysis, there is one basic difference. Denying it is part of it.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
It is up to the parents what their kids watch! I do not think Obama would want anyone getting on TV and telling his kids what to do!
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Oh, my goodness, yes! How dare he get on T.V. and encourage children to study hard and stay in school! What kind of message is that to give to children? Who does he think he is, telling kids to study hard and stay in school, and to get involved civically. What a horrible thing to do!
 
whatdidyousay! said:
I think is a horrible speech to read to kids that are only 5 years old! Obama is laying a heavy guilt trip on kids that they have to out save the world at such a young age! And he whine about having to get up at 4:30 AM to study! It is not Obama place or job to TELL our kids and grandkid what to DO! I do not want my grandchild hearing this speech on her first day of school! Yes it is Obama's speech BUT it to OUR KIDS he it reading it too! Next Obama will be telling us what we can and can't NOT DO! BabyBlue , you better open your eyes before it too late! I voted for a president to run
our country not our life!
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Oh, yes! God forbid your child or grandchild be encouraged to become educated and responsibile. What horrible examples to set for a child!
 
jillio said:
That's the issue of covert racial prejudice, Reba. They don't mention it. In fact, they go out of their way to deny it. That is why it is known as covert racism. However, there are certain variables to look to from a sociological perspective that will indicate the presence of covert racism. And those are evident not just in some of the posters of this board, but nationwide.
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Being so "covert" it then also makes it easy to make false accusations without having to prove anything. There is no way anyone can defend against an accusation of covert anything. How convenient.

Of course people can disagree politically without it having to be about race. People can also disagree politicially without it having to be about party. But the fact that you mentioned only disagreement with examples from the Democratic party shows that you make those same assumptions based on lables.
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The best defense is a good offense, eh? Good try but it doesn't fly.

Did it ever occur to you that I disagreed politically with Carter and Clinton because of the things they did or attempted to do? It had nothing to do with assumptions based on labels (I assume that's what you meant). I disagreed with them each time they did something that I didn't agree with. I didn't think, oh, he's a Democrat so I will automatically disagree before he makes a move.

It seems you're the one making lots of assumptions about other people.
 
darkdog said:
I wouldn't accuse most liberals of racism, but an awful lot (thankfully, not all) have no problem trivializing such a serious accusation as racism. Racism should not be taken lightly and smearing someone as racist just to avoid confronting their ideas is pathetic. If you're going to hurl the racism charge, you better be able to back it up. If all you have is some psycho-babble about their "subconscious" racism that they don't even know about which manifests itself in very "subtle" ways, then you have nothing.
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Actually, it isn't psych-babble. It is well researched and supported sociological fact.
 
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