So, will the deaf culture be there?

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Can you cue voice pitches (as part of expression) without any hearing devices?
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I believe that you use facial expressions (eyebrows up or down frown ) to convey pitch, though in tone languages you bend your wrist to indicate up or down. I do not recall ever having to answer that specific question. I’ll ask the experts for you. :)
 
faire_jour said:
My daughter's bi-bi school FORBID auditory training. They also forbid using spoken language in the school (in any situation besides pull out speech therapy). So, yes, they were similar to this analogy...
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I find this impossible to believe.
 
jillio said:
I find this impossible to believe.
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Then go visit the school. The rule is voice-off ASL at all times in the school. Also, it is NOT allowed, even in pull out, individual speech therapy, to use listening alone. Speech therapy was done with SIM-COM. I specifically requested listening therapy for her newly implanted CI and was told that the school's philosophy would not allow, even in therapy, for the child to not have visual access.
 
faire_jour said:
Then go visit the school. The rule is voice-off ASL at all times in the school. Also, it is NOT allowed, even in pull out, individual speech therapy, to use listening alone. Speech therapy was done with SIM-COM. I specifically requested listening therapy for her newly implanted CI and was told that the school's philosophy would not allow, even in therapy, for the child to not have visual access.
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"Philosophy does not allow" is quite different from "forbid". And that is the point. It is a bi-bi school. Don't agree with the philosophy of bi-bi, then don't enroll your child in a bi-bi program. It is unrealistic to expect that the program will change it's philosophy just for you and your demands.
 
jillio said:
"Philosophy does not allow" is quite different from "forbid". And that is the point. It is a bi-bi school. Don't agree with the philosophy of bi-bi, then don't enroll your child in a bi-bi program. It is unrealistic to expect that the program will change it's philosophy just for you and your demands.
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I was asking for an appropriate pull out service. I was not asking for a change in the school's philosophy.

Forbid, not allow, whatever you dress it up as, it is clearly NOT happening.
 
faire_jour said:
I was asking for an appropriate pull out service. I was not asking for a change in the school's philosophy.

Forbid, not allow, whatever you dress it up as, it is clearly NOT happening.
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The pull out service you were requesting is in direct opposition to the bi-bi school's philosophy. Since the pull out service would be provided by the school, then they are perfectly within their rights not to provide a service that undermines their very educational philosophy, and you are out of bounds for thinking that it is appropriate to do so.

Again, don't agree with their philosophy, then don't enroll in that program. There are other programs available to you. It is unreasonable to expect that a bi-bi program will alter and water down their philosophy just for you. Use your other options. Leave the bi-bi program and their students to operate under the philosophy as stated.
 
jillio said:
The pull out service you were requesting is in direct opposition to the bi-bi school's philosophy. Since the pull out service would be provided by the school, then they are perfectly within their rights not to provide a service that undermines their very educational philosophy, and you are out of bounds for thinking that it is appropriate to do so.

Again, don't agree with their philosophy, then don't enroll in that program. There are other programs available to you. It is unreasonable to expect that a bi-bi program will alter and water down their philosophy just for you. Use your other options. Leave the bi-bi program and their students to operate under the philosophy as stated.
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Actually, the service would be provided by an employee of the State school for the Deaf NOT the bi-bi program. The IEP is written by the State school for the Deaf IEP team, not the bi-bi program. Her placement was in the bi-bi program, but the pull out service had nothing to do with her placement. It was a related service, under a completely different section of the IEP and through different providers. The school has nothing to do with her realted service providers. Could they decide they didn't like the kind of OT she was getting and bar that as well?
 
McDonald's

Man: I want a Whopper!
Employee: We don't serve Whoppers here. We serve Big Mac, Quarter, etc.
Man: I want a Whopper!
Employee: Um, we don't serve them here.
Man: Can't you just make an exception?
Employee: No, but I can give you the directions to the nearest Burger King if you want to purchase a Whopper.
Man: No, I want a Whopper from here!

Some people just can't be reasoned with.
 
faire_jour said:
Actually, the service would be provided by an employee of the State school for the Deaf NOT the bi-bi program. The IEP is written by the State school for the Deaf IEP team, not the bi-bi program. Her placement was in the bi-bi program, but the pull out service had nothing to do with her placement. It was a related service, under a completely different section of the IEP and through different providers. The school has nothing to do with her realted service providers. Could they decide they didn't like the kind of OT she was getting and bar that as well?
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Still provided through the bi-bi program. They didn't forbid you to contract for outside services on your own, now, did they? They simply stated that they would not provide services that were in opposition to their educational philosophy. Still don't get it, do you?
 
Banjo said:
McDonald's

Man: I want a Whopper!
Employee: We don't serve Whoppers here. We serve Big Mac, Quarter, etc.
Man: I want a Whopper!
Employee: Um, we don't serve them here.
Man: Can't you just make an exception?
Employee: No, but I can give you the directions to the nearest Burger King if you want to purchase a Whopper.
Man: No, I want a Whopper from here!

Some people just can't be reasoned with.
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Excellent analogy.:lol:
 
Banjo said:
McDonald's

Man: I want a Whopper!
Employee: We don't serve Whoppers here. We serve Big Mac, Quarter, etc.
Man: I want a Whopper!
Employee: Um, we don't serve them here.
Man: Can't you just make an exception?
Employee: No, but I can give you the directions to the nearest Burger King if you want to purchase a Whopper.
Man: No, I want a Whopper from here!

Some people just can't be reasoned with.
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You have no idea what you are talking about. :roll: I asked for a reasonable service that could be provided by an SLP. The principal just didn't like the service and so she forbid it in her school.
 
faire_jour said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. :roll: I asked for a reasonable service that could be provided by an SLP. The principal just didn't like the service and so she forbid it in her school.
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Um... exactly my point.

Some people just can't be reasoned with. :lol:
 
jillio said:
Still provided through the bi-bi program. They didn't forbid you to contract for outside services on your own, now, did they? They simply stated that they would not provide services that were in opposition to their educational philosophy. Still don't get it, do you?
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No, it was provided THROUGH the State school for the Deaf. It was provided AT the bi-bi school.
 
faire_jour said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. :roll: I asked for a reasonable service that could be provided by an SLP. The principal just didn't like the service and so she forbid it in her school.
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You asked for a service that was in opposition to the bi-bi educational philosophy. The fact that you consider that to be reasonable speaks volumes regarding the very unreasonableness of your demand.

Your accusations against the principal are absurd. Just didn't like the service? Get real.
 
It is as simple as this. If you will not provide auditory training and spoken language therapy to kids with cochlear implants at your ASL-Deaf school, you will eventually run out of students. So, choose to defend your narrow-minded philosophy and watch your school close, or embrace the future.
 
jillio said:
You asked for a service that was in opposition to the bi-bi educational philosophy. The fact that you consider that to be reasonable speaks volumes regarding the very unreasonableness of your demand.

Your accusations against the principal are absurd. Just didn't like the service? Get real.
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She told me, in our IE meeting "I just can't do it Melissa. I went to an AV training, because I knew this was important to you. But I can't. It is just so cruel. I can't let them do this to my kids. It is horrible"
 
faire_jour said:
It is as simple as this. If you will not provide auditory training and spoken language therapy to kids with cochlear implants at your ASL-Deaf school, you will eventually run out of students. So, choose to defend your narrow-minded philosophy and watch your school close, or embrace the future.
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:laugh2: Thank you, Nostradamus.
 
faire_jour said:
It is as simple as this. If you will not provide auditory training and spoken language therapy to kids with cochlear implants at your ASL-Deaf school, you will eventually run out of students. So, choose to defend your narrow-minded philosophy and watch your school close, or embrace the future.
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If it's not available there... maybe it's not the best place for your child to go to. Hmm-mm.
 
faire_jour said:
She told me, in our IE meeting "I just can't do it Melissa. I went to an AV training, because I knew this was important to you. But I can't. It is just so cruel. I can't let them do this to my kids. It is horrible"
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Bi-bi philosophy. I happen to agree with her. It is cruel. Education is about promoting understanding and comprehension, not about making it as difficult as it could possibly be. Personally, you should be singing her praises, as she went out of her way to attend a session to be certain that she was making the best decision for the students in her school.
 
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