So-called Terps- Sending Deaf PPL to Hell

Reba said:
Not off track yet, but I sense a major derailment coming along.

Really, I'm just lazy and don't want to post duplicates in two different threads, ha, ha.
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Well, I see this thread as being useful for discussion of the issue, and that thread as being useful for discussion of the discussion. :twisted:

You're right though, we will almost certainly be getting off the topic of religious interpreting.
 
You're right. I jumped ahead of myself. Stokoe went into Gallaudet and learned sign on the job using American Signs in English order. When linguistic rules were established, it did not include signing in the "think tank". So, Stokoe misunderstood what was being signed. He knew some ASL in English order but didn't know the contractions.

Courts require Verbatim, which is word for word signing, and it is unethical to interpret because you are being paternalistic by explaining rather than quoting the judge. It is the judge's job to explain himself. "Terps" are not certified in law.

English was never forced down the deaf's throats. It began as English.
ASLTA is affiliated with NAD, which is a national organization for certifying national sign teachers.

Now what is sign language? I'm not talking about ASL, just sign language.

Another question, is Anthony's SEE I a seperate language from SEE II? Now there are 2 different English languages?

Also, I am not saying that terps are evil, just mistaught.
 
truesign said:
Courts require Verbatim, which is word for word signing, and it is unethical to interpret because you are being paternalistic by explaining rather than quoting the judge. It is the judge's job to explain himself. "Terps" are not certified in law.
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I take it you haven't heard of the SC:L, the legal specialist certificate for interpreters. I know a colleague who was preparing to get her SC:L, and she most certainly did go to law school as part of her training. It's not enough to become a lawyer, but the idea that "interpreters are not certified in law" is patently false. As for "requiring verbatim" that's not true either. Courts require that the interpreters communicate in the manner most effective for the deaf person. If that is Signed English, then they must hire an interpreter who is qualified in Signed English. If that is ASL, then they must hire an interpreter who is qualified in ASL. If the deaf person has minimal skills in any language, and uses mostly gestures and home signs to communicate, they typically bring in a CDI who works with a hearing interpreter to get the message across to the deaf person as clearly as they can possibly understand. The very idea that someone with a conflict of interest would be allowed to interpret in a courtroom is spine-chilling.
truesign said:
English was never forced down the deaf's throats. It began as English.
ASLTA is affiliated with NAD, which is a national organization for certifying national sign teachers.
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What began as English, exactly? ASL? No, ASL began as a combination of home signs, MVSL, and LSF. It was organically formed (not developed) by the students at teachers at the American School for the Deaf, which was founded in 1817.
truesign said:
Now what is sign language? I'm not talking about ASL, just sign language.
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"Sign language" is a collective term for any form of MCE and native signed languages (ASL, LSQ, LSF, DGS, etc.) ASL is one type of sign language, that happens to have no relationship with English at all.
truesign said:
Another question, is Anthony's SEE I a seperate language from SEE II? Now there are 2 different English languages?
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They are different forms. I find it interesting that you would spout so much information about SEE when you don't know the difference between SEE1 and SEE2. Both of them are forms of Manually Coded English - that is, English presented through the hands. ASL is not Manually Coded English, it is another language. This is what you seem to be unaware of. You are talking about Signed English (I trust you've heard of that, surely?) but you think you know about ASL. You're talking about apples and oranges here.
truesign said:
Also, I am not saying that terps are evil, just mistaught.
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Oh please, yes you are. You say interpreters are twisting the words of the speaker, you say they are using deaf people for their own interests, you say they are using gestures, you say that they don't give deaf people "the full advantage"...you are not saying they are mistaught, you are saying they are deliberately manipulating deaf people, and that's complete folly.

What amazes me the most is that you have learned so much about this in three short years. Are you sure you know what you're talking about when you say that generations upon generations of deaf people, and decades of research, are all wrong? Or maybe you're just trolling.
 
People with scl are still supposed to sign word for word, not explain it.

The teacher brought signing from france. His name was Clerc. The first teacher of the deaf in america. He was deaf. He had good English.

Sign language is speech. Just like oral and written language. They can be any grammar. The definition of language in sign language is really speech. For example, signed speech, oral speech, written speech. The other definition of language is grammar. For example, english language, spanish language, french language, etc. If "aol" (american oral language) and "awl" (american written language) are english, then it must follow in syllogism that asl (american sign language) has to be English. Like it or not.

SEE1 and SEE2 are nothing but different kinds of symbols. Alias anthony symbols and gustason symbols thats all they are. We have american symbols and we can put them in any order. Good english, broken english, deaf english. Terps obviously sign in deaf english.

Manually Coded English?. Ok so you speak Vocally Coded English? You write in Graphically Coded English? People don't use such terms so neither do I.

Aren't you learning too? Your icon says Gallaudet class of 11. So you still have alot of time to go. I deal with people that have been in the field for over 60 years. By the way, I notice you have CT by your icon, that means signing word for word don't it?. Why bother having the CT if you're arguing with me.
 
truesign said:
Aren't you learning too? Your icon says Gallaudet class of 11. So you still have alot of time to go. I deal with people that have been in the field for over 60 years. By the way, I notice you have CT by your icon, that means signing word for word don't it?. Why bother having the CT if you're arguing with me.
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I went back to school because I never finished my degree after I graduated high school. It has nothing to do with whether I'm "still learning" about the deaf community. I've been involved in this community for 23 years, but of course I am still learning. If you're not still learning, then your mind is rotting. Care to drop any names of those people you've been working with? I'd love to know who's putting those ideas into your head.

I have CI/CT because I speak both ASL and Signed English. I am qualified to work with your wife, who uses English word order, and with the majority of the signing deaf population, who use ASL. Why bother having it? So I can serve as many people as possible, not because I think Signed English is better than ASL. That's why I have both...because they are equally valuable.

You clearly know nothing about the history of the deaf community, the history and use of ASL, the profession of interpreting, or deaf culture. Why are you even here? You must be trolling, because nobody in their right mind would come onto AllDeaf with opinions like yours.
 
I know the answer already. I'm just curious about yours. And how long have you been involved in all this?
 
truesign said:
I'm curious, is ASL verbal or non-verbal communication?
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This question is absurd. If you're so brilliant and you know exactly what ASL is and isn't, why do you have to ask this question? Oh right, because you're a troll.
 
CT is not signed English or SEE I or SEE II. It is just signing word for word. Deaf people had word for word before the SEEs even existed.

Here is a name for you.
George Johnston. Charter member of RID, ASLTA certified and 1 of the founders, and residential school graduate, Gallaudet graduate and professor, colleague of Stokoe, and alot of others that I am going to ask him about.

Even if he is outnumbered, "1 million fools do not make 1 wise man".
 
The verbal or non-verbal is a simple question. How come you can't answer? I challenge you to answer.
 
truesign said:
CT is not signed English or SEE I or SEE II. It is just signing word for word. Deaf people had word for word before the SEEs even existed.
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I didn't say SEE, brainiac. I said Signed English. I don't know SEE2 at all, and I am clumsy in SEE1, but I use Signed English just fine. Oh wait, you haven't heard of it? Signed English is ASL vocabulary in English word order. You keep talking about "word for word" but you don't even know what it's called?

Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm on vacation in Puerto Rico, it's Valentine's Day, and you're full of shit. Therefore, I'm done with this discussion - it's time to let others have a turn anyway. :crazy:
 
How can ASL be a different language and still be put into English word order.

And by the way, ASL is verbal communication believe it or not. You people that try to argue the subject always get stuck on this part. And I am full of shit? Please. You listen to the Interpreter trainers a little too much. Look up the word verbal. It means "of or pertaining to words" and if you think ASL has its own word order, it has to be verbal communication because you cannot have word order without words. Non-verbal means no words. It is obvious that you don't know what the word verbal means. It doesn't mean vocal like you're thinking. A baby's babbling is vocal but not verbal.

And is being in Puerto Rico supposed to be something special. I go down there for months with my wife. Nothing special that you have to put it out there. This is the excuse of a typical assinine person who wants to believe the bullshit thats coming out of their mouths. I guess I ain't so full of shit.
 
My wife is still getting ready for dinner, so I'll comment:
truesign said:
How can ASL be a different language and still be put into English word order.
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I didn't say it was ASL in English word order. I said it was ASL vocabulary.

truesign said:
And by the way, ASL is verbal communication believe it or not. You people that try to argue the subject always get stuck on this part. And I am full of shit? Please. You listen to the Interpreter trainers a little too much. Look up the word verbal. It means "of or pertaining to words" and if you think ASL has its own word order, it has to be verbal communication because you cannot have word order without words. Non-verbal means no words. It is obvious that you don't know what the word verbal means. It doesn't mean vocal like you're thinking. A baby's babbling is vocal but not verbal.
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I didn't say anything about whether ASL was or wasn't verbal communication, so how do you know what I am thinking?

truesign said:
And is being in Puerto Rico supposed to be something special. I go down there for months with my wife. Nothing special that you have to put it out there. This is the excuse of a typical assinine person who wants to believe the bullshit thats coming out of their mouths. I guess I ain't so full of shit.
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So I happened to say I was in PR. So what? Why get so angry about an irrelevant detail? How does saying that I'm in PR become an "excuse" or indicate that you're not full of shit? It's completely irrelevant, and you make a big thing out of it. :sure:

Sir, you are deeply misguided. I am happy to let you remain that way. Have a wonderful evening, stop talking to a person on the internet, and go be with your wife on this February 14th. That's what I'm going to do. :bye:
 
:bowlol: Truesign, you crack me up; it's too bad you can't live up to your name (nick) sake and I'm being kind here. Go spew your nonsense somewhere else.
 
I am not getting mad about puerto rico. I could care less. And my wife is right here with laughing at this. She knows the bullshit interpreters try to pull. And it was obvious that you were thinking ASL is non-verbal. That is the common belief with uneducated interpreters. I am not saying I am the smartest person in this field. But facts are facts. There is no denying them. You just fail to look at them. You are going by what you are taught. Ask any person over 50 how ASL was and they will tell you ASL is English word for word originally.
 
Ok Tousi, if I'm spewing nonsense so much then why is it so difficult to get a straight forward answer. Because none of you have legitimate 1s. Ask any professional deaf person in the field of deaf ed and they will tell you. And remember to ask a deaf person, not a hearing, because hearing people don't fully comprehend this situation.
 
If you had read the full definition of "verbal", you would see that not only does it pertain to words, but it pertains specifically to words that are orally spoken. No sign language is spoken orally. ASL is defined as a "non-verbal language" by neuroscientists who study language acquisition (such as the difference in learning times and areas of the brain used for sign languages versus oral/spoken languages).
 
truesign said:
You're right. I jumped ahead of myself. Stokoe went into Gallaudet and learned sign on the job using American Signs in English order. When linguistic rules were established, it did not include signing in the "think tank". So, Stokoe misunderstood what was being signed. He knew some ASL in English order but didn't know the contractions.

Courts require Verbatim, which is word for word signing, and it is unethical to interpret because you are being paternalistic by explaining rather than quoting the judge. It is the judge's job to explain himself. "Terps" are not certified in law.

English was never forced down the deaf's throats. It began as English.
ASLTA is affiliated with NAD, which is a national organization for certifying national sign teachers.

Now what is sign language? I'm not talking about ASL, just sign language.

Another question, is Anthony's SEE I a seperate language from SEE II? Now there are 2 different English languages?

Also, I am not saying that terps are evil, just mistaught.
Click to expand...

If anyone is mistaught here, it is you. To date, you have gotten absolutely nothing correct.
 
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