Sickening news :(

Reba said:
Also, something that I have not seen brought up. Has anyone read anything that states Hammid ever repented of his terrorism? Has Hammid show any regret for killing Stethem? Has Hammid begged the Stethem family to forgive him?
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And what if he did? Would you still have made this thread?
The most dangerous form of terrorism in this world is religious fervor.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mld4ds
Reba,

Don't you ever forgive the murder for the sake of Heaven Father and Jesus?


First of all, it is not mine to forgive. Hammid didn't sin against me. He sinned against God, the victims on the TWA flight, their friends and families, the government, and TWA. Only they can forgive him.



Quote:
Or do you accept the murder to be killed for the eye for eye?


Do you think it is justice to let a murderer go free and possibly kill more people? Don't forget, Hammid was NOT under a death sentence in Germany. He was under a life in prison sentence. That is NOT an "eye for an eye". Hammid is a free man and still in his 30's. Petty Officer Stethem is still DEAD. I saw his brother on TV last night. Stethem's family still grieves for him. Hammid is a free man. Where is the justice in that?


Quote:
Isn't that a bit confusion for you to believe in OT or NT?


No confusion at all. God commanded against murder. He also established systems of government for man to have an orderly life. Those governments establish laws against murder, and they enforce (ususally) those laws against murder.

Also, something that I have not seen brought up. Has anyone read anything that states Hammid ever repented of his terrorism? Has Hammid show any regret for killing Stethem? Has Hammid begged the Stethem family to forgive him?

:gpost: except I am not smiling nor should the smiley be smiling holding the " good post " sign. This is a good and silent post. Let's take a moment of silence to remember the Stethem family. God Bless Them and it must be a very hard blow taken in the stomach to learn a killer has been set free so close to Christmas time plus what is more frustrating is the father is a retired Navy Seal from what I understand right , Reba? I hope that the US Navy is already up to something and we don't need to know. I hate to say someone will turn up dead somewhere but I am sure and positive that Hammid will turn up dead somewhere and we will be hearing it soon enough on the t.v. nightly news. God Bless the Stethem Family. Be Strong. :angel:
 
Beowulf said:
And what if he did? Would you still have made this thread?
The most dangerous form of terrorism in this world is religious fervor.
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Yes, I would still make this thread. I would include all that. If someone can find Hammid's statements, I will include them. If he has totally renounced terrorism, and will speak out against it, I will publish that.

People still need to know about these terrorists attacks of the past. I'm afraid too many people think that terrorism began on 9/11. No, there has been a long history of this. Many of these terrorist attacks occurred before the first WTC attack, before the Gulf War...
 
Reba,

How about the quotiation of "We will Never Forgive or Forget the Murder of ...."?

Thanks and Merry Christmas

Heath, quit your yapping unless you better have good opinions. Thanks and May God Bless you....
 
USMC Motto...

" To Err Is Human, To Forgive Is Divine Neither of Which Is Marine Corps Policy "

Semper Fi
 
For a person to be forgiven, or even for them to convert, doesn't necessarily let them out of the earthly consequences of their actions, which is a point I made in the other thread about the Crips leader.

And thanks, Reba, for posting that news article about Spain's appeasement policies. I've been out all day and didn't have the chance.
 
While I was surfing the internet and looking at some funny pictures. This one angered me !!!!! Notice the name of the web address then open it then look at the dollar bill then compare with the Pentagon. People lost their lives that day. I found nothing extremely funny. :pissed:

http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/images/wtc3.jpg
 
Heath said:
While I was surfing the internet and looking at some funny pictures. This one angered me !!!!! Notice the name of the web address then open it then look at the dollar bill then compare with the Pentagon. People lost their lives that day. I found nothing extremely funny. :pissed:

http://www.extremefunnypictures.com/images/wtc3.jpg
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Well, some people are jerks. There's not much you can do about that. Just ignore them. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.
 
I just saw Stethem's two brothers on TV this morning. They are still trying to get the US to pressure Lebanon to turn over Hammid to the US for prosecution. The brothers said that for years the US President's tried to get Germany to turn over Hammid, but Germany refused because of our death penalty laws.

Our country gives millions of dollars of aid to Lebanon. The Stethem brothers want the US to pressure Lebanon thru that aid. We can say, "If you don't give us Hammid, we won't give you the aid$$$."

I hope it happens.

Also, the Stethem brothers said that Hammid is becoming a hero and role model for terrorists in the Middle East. He is a cold-blooded terrorist killer but he is honored in terrorist countries. Ugh!

The brothers gave more details about their brother. They told how he was returning from an underwater construction project. He was on the hijacked flight, and the hijackers wanted him to "scream" into the microphone for the world to hear. He refused to scream, so they beat him, and then killed him.
 
I haven´t chance to read all the whole 3 pages here... until I saw Reba´s thread and know straight way because we heard about this last week...


We beleive it´s German Susanne Osthoff is the reason, why the German government let him go... It look likely "ransom"... I´m sure that you heard about German Susanne Osthoff... We think it´s something do with ransom. :dunno:


I will be back to read all the 3 pages here...
 
Liebling:-))) said:
...We beleive it´s German Susanne Osthoff is the reason, why the German government let him go... It look likely "ransom"... I´m sure that you heard about German Susanne Osthoff... We think it´s something do with ransom. :dunno:...
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Yes, many people in the US suspect that might be reason also.
 
mlkshkgrl said:
In Germany, the minimum time to be served for a sentence of life imprisonment is 15 years, after which the prisoner can apply for parole. If the verdict in the original trial includes an explicit finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt" (in German: "Besondere Schwere der Schuld") then the possibility of parole after 15 years is excluded and the prisoner can apply for the first time after 18 years. After about 10 years of imprisonment, a specialised chamber (technical term in German: "Strafvollstreckungskammer") of the criminal court which is responsible for the case sets a recommended minimum term to be served depending on the individual characteristics of the crime, in other words, a minimum time which is deemed just and appropriate for the gravity of the crime. Release of a prisoner on parole requires (1) that this minimum time is served and (2) that a psychological expert opinion predicts no further danger from this prisoner and a positive social prognosis. In reality, a finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt" drastically increases the time before parole is granted. The average time served for a life sentence in Germany is around 20 years. Around 20% of all people serving life imprisonment stay in prison until their natural death. If the sentence includes a provision for "preventive detention" (in German: "Sicherungsverwahrung"), he or she will never be granted the chance of release. This is only invoked in cases where the convict poses a clear and present danger to society.
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Yes it´s correct...

mlkshkgrl said:
(2) that a psychological expert opinion predicts no further danger from this prisoner and a positive social prognosis.
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Psychological Expert´s opinion could be mistake sometimes... We have few Rapists who repeat to rape children and women after free from prison or leave prison for the weekends.

We also have murders who freed from prison after long years to become a good persons. They learn their mistake thru harsh punishment is prison...

I remember an ex-terrorist lady who was there with 3 or 4 terrorist men in flight around 1970 or 1974 for long 30 or 40 days... (I´m not sure)... She freed from prison and found a partner and produce a child with him... She told everyone on the TV Document how much she regret what she did in past. A lot of Germans who were in flight that´s time forgave her.

Everyone could give them the chance to be good person... I know it´s risky but it´s less % risk...
 
Some countries are paying off the terrorist kidnappers:

How $45m secretly bought freedom of foreign hostages
By Daniel McGrory

Documents seen by The Times show three countries paid ransoms in spite of denying it in public

FRANCE, Italy and Germany sanctioned the payment of $45 million in deals to free nine hostages abducted in Iraq, according to documents seen by The Times.

All three governments have publicly denied paying ransom money. But according to the documents, held by security officials in Baghdad who have played a crucial role in hostage negotiations, sums from $2.5 million to $10 million per person have been paid over the past 21 months. Among those said to have received cash ransoms was the gang responsible for seizing British hostages including Kenneth Bigley, the murdered Liverpool engineer.

The list of payments has also been seen by Western diplomats, who are angered at the behaviour of the three governments, arguing that it encourages organised crime gangs to grab more foreign captives.

“In theory we stand together in not rewarding kidnappers, but in practice it seems some administrations have parted with cash and so it puts other foreign nationals at risk from gangs who are confident that some governments do pay,” one senior envoy in the Iraqi capital said...

The release this month of Rene Braunlich and Thomas Nitzschke, two German engineers, for a reported $5 million payment prompted senior Iraqi security officials to seek talks with leading Western diplomats in the capital on how to handle hostage release.

When the men returned home, Alaa al-Hashimi, the Iraqi Ambassador to Germany, revealed that the German Government handed over “a large amount” to free the pair after 99 days in captivity. The kidnappers are understood to have asked for $10 million.

Liam Fox, the Shadow Defence Secretary, called last night for an immediate end to the practice. “The idea that Western governments would have paid ransoms is extremely disturbing,” he said. “It is essential that governments never give in to blackmail from terrorists or criminals if security is ever to be maintained.”

...Britain has never paid to free its citizens, despite pressure from the employees of some hostages, but is understood to have paid intermediaries “expenses” for their efforts to make contact with the kidnappers.

British officials have been criticised for giving the kidnappers of the peace activist Norman Kember time to escape to avoid the risk of a gun battle with Special Forces troops sent to rescue him and his two fellow captives from a house in central Baghdad in March.

Only when Jill Carroll, an American journalist, was freed eight days later did intelligence experts discover that she had been held by the same notorious crime family, who were working with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the wanted al-Qaeda leader in Iraq. That revelation infuriated US officials in Baghdad, who had let Britain take the lead in tracing and freeing Professor Kember, 74, and his two Canadian colleagues.

WHAT THEY SAID

FRANCE
When Florence Aubenas was freed in June 2005 a government spokesman, Jean-François Cope, said: “There was absolutely no demand for money. No ransom was paid”

ITALY
On January 30 this year Gianfranco Fini, then Italian Foreign Minister, denied that Italy paid between $6m and S10m to free Giuliana Sgrena. “Italy did not pay any ransom to obtain the freedom of Giuliana Sgrena in Iraq or any other hostage. There is never a quid pro quo”

GERMANY
Frank Walter Steinmeier, the German Foreign Minister, was asked if paying a ransom for Susanne Osthoff had compromised the security of other German hostages. He replied: “The problem is not ransom payments, but the reporting of them.” That was seen in Germany as indirect confirmation that ransoms were paid

WHAT THEY PAID

FRANCE $25 million
Florence Aubenas: held for 157 days, freed June 2005. Ransom $10 million
Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot: freed December 2004. Ransom $15 million

ITALY $11 million
Giuliana Segrena: taken February 2005, freed March 2005. Ransom $6 million
Simona Pari and Simona Torretta: taken September 2004, freed 20 days later. Ransom $5 million.

GERMANY $8 million
Susanne Ostloff: taken November 25, 2005, and freed three weeks later. Ransom $3 million

Rene Braunlich and Thomas Nitzschke: taken January 24, 2006, and freed on May 2. Ransom $5 million.

BRITAIN No ransom paid
Kenneth Bigley: taken September 16, 2004; seen being beheaded on video released on November 16

Margaret Hassan: abducted October 19, 2004; murdered on November 16

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2191229,00.html
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That is a very dicey situation. You can't put a price tag on a human being's life. I think in some situations it may help or may not help the situation but really, there should be no neogitations with the terrorists.
 
Reba said:
This just makes me sick!

This terrorist served only 19 years in prison for hijacking a plane of innocent people, and cruelly killing an American sailor. It is disgusting! Why did the Germans set the terrorist free? It was supposed to be a life sentence.

This is NOT justice!
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Reba,

I think you're old enough to know some people who remember WWII and Nazi Germany . . . this still remains the same. Sure, different people, but the same actors doing the same stuff as they did back then. What can you expect from Germany and the white trash this country has?
 
pek1 said:
Reba,

I think you're old enough to know some people who remember WWII and Nazi Germany . . . this still remains the same. Sure, different people, but the same actors doing the same stuff as they did back then. What can you expect from Germany and the white trash this country has?
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I think every country has its share of trash. The U.S. has trash, Germany has some too, and so does EVERY country in existence. And each also has a decent share of good people. Better to go by the individuals than nationalities. I happen to be good friends with some very nice Germans who wouldn't hurt a fly, thank you very much. (Plus I am 1/4 German myself.)
 
Seems to me that if this guy were to ever board another international flight as long as he lives, that he could be tried, convicted, and sentenced in another country, right?
 
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