Sickening news :(

[Miss-Delectable]

Justice isn't served! *sigh*
It wouldn't surprise me if he decided to fight alongside Al-Quaeda.
Let's hope he won't be walking the streets again if something had happened to him.

 

[mlkshkgrl]

Excuse me, but since when does 19 years equal a "life" sentence

In Germany, the minimum time to be served for a sentence of life imprisonment is 15 years, after which the prisoner can apply for parole. If the verdict in the original trial includes an explicit finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt" (in German: "Besondere Schwere der Schuld") then the possibility of parole after 15 years is excluded and the prisoner can apply for the first time after 18 years. After about 10 years of imprisonment, a specialised chamber (technical term in German: "Strafvollstreckungskammer") of the criminal court which is responsible for the case sets a recommended minimum term to be served depending on the individual characteristics of the crime, in other words, a minimum time which is deemed just and appropriate for the gravity of the crime. Release of a prisoner on parole requires (1) that this minimum time is served and (2) that a psychological expert opinion predicts no further danger from this prisoner and a positive social prognosis. In reality, a finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt" drastically increases the time before parole is granted. The average time served for a life sentence in Germany is around 20 years. Around 20% of all people serving life imprisonment stay in prison until their natural death. If the sentence includes a provision for "preventive detention" (in German: "Sicherungsverwahrung"), he or she will never be granted the chance of release. This is only invoked in cases where the convict poses a clear and present danger to society.

 

[Heath]

I was gonna post something about that but you posted it

 

[Rose Immortal]

Wow, I'm surprised that being a terrorist who blew things up doesn't constitute a "clear and present danger" to society.

 

[Reba]

... Release of a prisoner on parole requires (1) that this minimum time is served and (2) that a psychological expert opinion predicts no further danger from this prisoner and a positive social prognosis.

Thanks for the explanation.
I understand the legal process as you have described. I just don't accept the "justice" of it.

I wonder from what medical school the psychological "expert" graduated if he/she thinks this terrorist character is no further danger and has a "positive social prognosis." It would almost be laughable if it weren't such a tragedy.

In reality, a finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt" drastically increases the time before parole is granted. The average time served for a life sentence in Germany is around 20 years. Around 20% of all people serving life imprisonment stay in prison until their natural death. If the sentence includes a provision for "preventive detention" (in German: "Sicherungsverwahrung"), he or she will never be granted the chance of release. This is only invoked in cases where the convict poses a clear and present danger to society.

Hmmm...according to those criteria, Hammadi should still be in prison. Something's rotten in Denmark (and Germany). Hammadi spent less than the average life sentence, and NO preventive detention. I smell a rat.

 

[Reba]

Wow, I'm surprised that being a terrorist who blew things up doesn't constitute a "clear and present danger" to society.

Amen!

 

[Heath]

I still say that terrorist deserves to see the business end of the ....

 

[Rose Immortal]

Reba, it may be that the Germans, like the Spaniards who changed their government to suit al-Qaeda, are afraid. Perhaps they think that by doing things that please the terrorists, they'll somehow avoid becoming a target. Yeah right.

 

[Reba]

Reba, it may be that the Germans, like the Spaniards who changed their government to suit al-Qaeda, are afraid. Perhaps they think that by doing things that please the terrorists, they'll somehow avoid becoming a target. Yeah right.

 

[Tousi]

Reba and Rose, good morning!
Rose, I'd like to hear more about the "......like the Spaniards changed their government to suit....".

 

[Heath]

I don't think the German government is afraid of Al Qaeda. It is just that I learned that they have had this law in effect for many years way and way , way before any of this happened. ( 9/11 and terrorism etc. ) and now the terrorists are abusing this law to their advantage and silently mocking authority.

The Al Qaeda will mock any government's authority. Not just ours or the German government or anybody's government for that matter. We need to answer them with the busniess end of a rifle. That is all the terrorists understand. I am curious as to what Rose has to say on this. I have also not heard from Liebling yet as she, herself lives in Germany.

 

[Reba]

I don't think the German government is afraid of Al Qaeda. It is just that I learned that they have had this law in effect for many years way before any of this happened. ( 9/11 and terrorism etc. )

Their law doesn't require them to release killers. Their law even allows them to keep potentially dangerous people incarcerated. The Germans, by their own law, did not have to release Hammid. They made the judgment call (decision) to release him totally, without any restrictions, and let him leave the country. Their timing is very suspicious.

 

[Heath]

Well.....yeah the timing is alittle off. There has to be something more to the story right there.

 

[Reba]

Three days after terror attacks killed 200 people in Madrid:

Spain: Poll triumph for Socialists

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- In a dramatic rebuff to the ruling conservative Popular Party, Spain's socialists have scored a stunning victory in national elections.

...Turnout was high at 76 percent with voters seeming to express anger with the government, accusing it of provoking the Madrid attacks by supporting the U.S.-led war in Iraq, which most Spaniards opposed.

The election was thrown wide open by a reported al Qaeda claim that it was responsible for Thursday's Madrid train bombings to punish the government for supporting the Iraq war.

Polling booths opened amid claims that Aznar's government possibly withheld information from the public about who was behind the terror attack that killed 200 people and injured 1,500.

Ministers had initially blamed the Basque separatist group ETA, but as evidence mounted of an Islamic link, officials were forced to revise this position.

...Interior Minister Angel Acebes said Sunday police would continue to hold five men -- three Moroccans and two Indians -- arrested on Saturday under anti-terrorist laws. One of the five men has been linked to the alleged ringleader of al Qaeda in Spain.

The Socialists, who had pledged to bring home Spanish troops from Iraq if they won Sunday, would benefit if al Qaeda or another Islamic group were found to be responsible because of their opposition to the war, analysts said.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/03/14/spain.blasts.election/index.html


Spain withdraws Iraq troops in 15 days

MADRID, April 18 (UPI) -- In one of his first acts as Spain's new prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero Sunday issued orders withdrawing all 1,300 Spanish troops from Iraq.

The BBC reported Zapatero had ordered his newly appointed defense minister to "do what is necessary for the Spanish troops stationed in Iraq (to) return home in the shortest time possible."

...Zapatero, a Socialist, was voted into office within days of the terrorist railway bombings in Madrid. In ordering the troops to return, he said he could not ignore what he called the will of the Spanish people.

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20040418-013408-5515r.htm

 

[Heath]

Appeasement never works.

 

[Mookie]

Reba,

Don't you ever forgive the murder for the sake of Heaven Father and Jesus? Or do you accept the murder to be killed for the eye for eye?

Isn't that a bit confusion for you to believe in OT or NT?

 

[moonflower]

:Oh no:

umm where will terriost will do ??? i hope he not still doing that

 

[Beowulf]

Reba,

Don't you ever forgive the murder for the sake of Heaven Father and Jesus? Or do you accept the murder to be killed for the eye for eye?

Isn't that a bit confusion for you to believe in OT or NT?

I was wondering the same thing. It seems like there is no purpose to this thread except for preaching hatred towards the Muslims, and we are falling into the same old trap, maintaining the "us versus them" mentality.
Do not forget that in the Madrid bombings, an American lawyer in Oregon (who had converted to Islam) got arrested for allegedly having a role in it, since it was claimed that his fingerprints were found on some baggage containing explosives. It turned out that the fingerprints were planted and he was completely exonerated.
Don't you find THAT suspicious at all? We keep falling for the same old tricks over and over again and probably will never learn.
*smh*

 

[Reba]

Reba,

Don't you ever forgive the murder for the sake of Heaven Father and Jesus?

First of all, it is not mine to forgive. Hammid didn't sin against me. He sinned against God, the victims on the TWA flight, their friends and families, the government, and TWA. Only they can forgive him.

Or do you accept the murder to be killed for the eye for eye?

Do you think it is justice to let a murderer go free and possibly kill more people? Don't forget, Hammid was NOT under a death sentence in Germany. He was under a life in prison sentence. That is NOT an "eye for an eye". Hammid is a free man and still in his 30's. Petty Officer Stethem is still DEAD. I saw his brother on TV last night. Stethem's family still grieves for him. Hammid is a free man. Where is the justice in that?

Isn't that a bit confusion for you to believe in OT or NT?

No confusion at all. God commanded against murder. He also established systems of government for man to have an orderly life. Those governments establish laws against murder, and they enforce (ususally) those laws against murder.

Also, something that I have not seen brought up. Has anyone read anything that states Hammid ever repented of his terrorism? Has Hammid show any regret for killing Stethem? Has Hammid begged the Stethem family to forgive him?

 

[Reba]

I was wondering the same thing. It seems like there is no purpose to this thread except for preaching hatred towards the Muslims, and we are falling into the same old trap, maintaining the "us versus them" mentality....

That is baloney.

Right now, I am angry with the German government for allowing a killer to go free. I am angry at Hammid and his group for committing terrorist acts. I am angry and disappointed in our government for not pushing stronger for extradition of Hammid.

What "old trick" are you referring to? Do you deny that Hammid killed Stethem? Do you deny that Germany set him free? What part of my posting is not true?