Should I fight for an interpreter?

posts from hell said:
Still not quite effective. Even if it was 100 years from now.
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Imagine people saying the same thing about computers 100 years ago. Oh, wait, it wasn't invented back then (with the exception of the Babbage Machine if you want to call it as that). I'd say we'll see something like that within our lifetime sans wars, famine, or disease that would interrupt the technological progress.
 
kokonut said:
I was talking about computer rendered virtual ASL interpreter....not a real one....
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:hmm: About as feasible for the kids as a virtual teacher in an elementary or secondary school. A few useful applications but not enough to make it practical for the majority of school situations.
 
kokonut said:
Imagine people saying the same thing about computers 100 years ago. Oh, wait, it wasn't invented back then (with the exception of the Babbage Machine if you want to call it as that). I'd say we'll see something like that within our lifetime sans wars, famine, or disease that would interrupt the technological progress.
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and yet... only small percentage actually benefit from Internet
 
Reba said:
:hmm: About as feasible for the kids as a virtual teacher in an elementary or secondary school. A few useful applications but not enough to make it practical for the majority of school situations.
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I can see an almost unlimited potential for signers. But the voice recognition nonsense won't fly simply because these are deaf students we are talking about.
 
Reba said:
:hmm: About as feasible for the kids as a virtual teacher in an elementary or secondary school. A few useful applications but not enough to make it practical for the majority of school situations.
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You know what they say about technology, it moves pretty quick. Consider how much of it has evolved over the last 20 years. Computer hardware (i.e. chips - memory and computational efficiency with the new core chips nowadays) and software algorithms continue to advance at a rapid pace.

Signs of change: UT Arlington Magazine
 
kokonut said:
You know what they say about technology, it moves pretty quick. Consider how much of it has evolved over the last 20 years. Computer hardware (i.e. chips - memory and computational efficiency with the new core chips nowadays) and software algorithms continue to advance at a rapid pace.

Signs of change: UT Arlington Magazine
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and yet..... our traffic light system is still a lot dumber than human traffic light :)
 
Let's remember one thing, voice recognition is not just that great. Yes, software can be calibrated to recognize some voices with great accuracy. It's just that, just a few voices. It would not be useful with everyday strangers and more. At least it won't be for a good number of years.

Now, sign language... that's even more challenging due to the signing styles and regional signs. This is something that may be nearly impossible to be reliable enough on a daily basis for a good while. Especially when a lot of people sign differently or are not fluent in it. For instance, mixing it up with SEE, PSE, ASL, etc. It's going to be a challenge all right.
 
I'm so glad CSign's son had what he needs. We'll probably have to fight for the same here -not for extracurricular activities, but for school itself- and I tell you it's even more complicated because the law is not so clear about this in our country. We'll fight for it if needed. Our therapist already got thru it and is ready with letters for authorities, newspapers and such :giggle:

Anyway, about technologies you're discussing here, I must admit it scares me. I use technology and enjoy it, and I know it can be so very useful, but aI'd never ever prefer a "fake" terp to a real person, especially for a child!! Talking about socialization :roll:
Children need relations with real people and a terp is not only a "translator", he can explain things, have a laugh with the kid, show him some different way to solve little problems and so on. Is one more person to stay with your kid and that is an enrichment by itself.

Plans B are welcome when needed, that was not the case... Luckily!

I also hate how schools have no money, but our politicians spend so much in political campaign and such... Not to mention the money they get for themselves :roll:
 
For the record PFH, I'm not that excited about the fact that he's mainstreamed. There are no other placement options for him.
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Yes, PFH she is very interested in setting up a regional dhh program. Unfortunatly services and programs vary tremendously from state to state and even within the same state, right? Sometimes, the only choice is deaf school or solotaire placement. Which sucks.......Because while I do have issues with some regional programs, if they are done well they can be really good especially for kids who are more hard of hearing.
Csign, this does bring up an interesting point thou. I do think it's VERY important for hearing parents, of dhh kids, especially of solotaired kids to find a balance between Deaf World/ deaf extracurrculaiors and typical hearing extracurruculars. Not picking on you or anything......Just mentioning it for any parents who are lurking. I have a mild secondary disabilty (mild LD as well as some other mild nereological issues) and I was always pushed towards " normal" stuff, including "normal" extracurrcuilars. However, I do think that in MANY cases exposure to dhh specific or disabilty specific opperunties (like Easter Seals camp, or deaf camps or whatever) can really benifit kids with mild or conditions where they have adapted well disabilties.
 
I read this whole thread in one sitting. I have a few comments. I believe that there are pro and cons with fighting using only the law and fighting with a back-up plan. Fighting with the law behind you strengthens the law and other future kids with disabilites but can make the system weaker (financially), not sure if it can be 100% successful (don't know enough about this). Fighting with a back up plan assumes that plan A is not successful or it can cause the parent to give up easily and fall back on plan B. This can be very beneficial to the child but weakens the options for future kids if they are financially strapped. Anyway, I think both are valid options (IF the using the law is not 100% successful). One may be much better advice but both still valid.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that I don't think it's quite fair that CSign thanked certain people for their advice when it's pretty obvious that some of them did not give any real advice, only support. Advice does not come in the form of support. Especially from those who do not have experience with this whatsoever. I saw several posts that gave real advice. Unfortunately, it came with a side of snappy attitude, but advice nonetheless. The fact that there is a child involved makes me want to point out that this really is no time for making "clique-y" friends who think like you and getting your advice from them, even though they have never dealt with something like this. Yes some people here have a bad attitude but they CAN offer valuable advice somewhere in their snappy responses. Advice that would help your child tremendously.

On a light note, I'm happy that it worked out for your son!! But I'm even happier that he is going to a science camp!! Whoo hoo!!!
 
Beowulf said:
I can see an almost unlimited potential for signers. But the voice recognition nonsense won't fly simply because these are deaf students we are talking about.
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You're right. There's more to interpreting than just technically accurate sign production. There's expansion, cultural aspects, feedback, tone, and environment to consider, among other things. What about using classifiers, directionality, and role shifting? Knowing local sign names and spellings?

In SC, would the voice recognition pick up on the Gullah dialects? Would it know that "Cupper" means "Cooper" and "U-gee" is "Huger?"

It would also have to be able to move quickly about the classroom to position itself whenever the speaker moves, or when there is a class activity.

It might be OK in a pinch for a limited use but for all day long, every day in class . . . ?
 
Daredevel7 said:
... Anyway, what I really wanted to say is that I don't think it's quite fair that CSign thanked certain people for their advice when it's pretty obvious that some of them did not give any real advice, only support. Advice does not come in the form of support. ...
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Isn't that a little bit judgmental and mean-spirited: assessing the value of the advice given and whether it was worthy of someone's thank you?

I took csign's very kind thanks to me as being more for my PM to her suggesting which parents were likely to have had direct experience in this matter (PFH and Jillio among a few others) than for any good solid legal or procedural advice given on this thread.

Could be too that some of that advice wrapped in a bit of snappy came -- late, and well after just plain snappiness -- only after some others provided support for Csign's stated actions to date and plan to fight -- and maybe even as a result of some of that support and cajoling to knock off the nastiness and share experience.
 
kokonut said:
You know what they say about technology, it moves pretty quick. Consider how much of it has evolved over the last 20 years. Computer hardware (i.e. chips - memory and computational efficiency with the new core chips nowadays) and software algorithms continue to advance at a rapid pace.

Signs of change: UT Arlington Magazine
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I'm not opposed to technology; I love gadgets and the digital world. However, I'm realistic enough to know it can't solve everything.

Don't forget, interpreting is a two-way street. The interpreter must also be able to put to voice the signing of the deaf student. So voice recognition technology isn't enough. Sign recognition technology would also be necessary. And we're talking about recognizing the signing vocabulary and styles of kids of all ages from all kinds of language backgrounds.
 
deafdyke said:
... I do think it's VERY important for hearing parents, of dhh kids, especially of solotaired kids to find a balance between Deaf World/ deaf extracurrculaiors and typical hearing extracurruculars. Not picking on you or anything......Just mentioning it for any parents who are lurking. I have a mild secondary disabilty (mild LD as well as some other mild nereological issues) and I was always pushed towards " normal" stuff, including "normal" extracurrcuilars. However, I do think that in MANY cases exposure to dhh specific or disabilty specific opperunties (like Easter Seals camp, or deaf camps or whatever) can really benifit kids with mild or conditions where they have adapted well disabilties.
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Like BRR :) Not just camping opportunities but socialization with lots of other deaf kids. A setting where signing is the norm.
 
GrendelQ said:
Isn't that a little bit judgmental and mean-spirited: assessing the value of the advice given and whether it was worthy of someone's thank you?
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Of course, I am being judgmental. I kinda have to be if I want to form an opinion about someone. My opinion wasn't that those people shouldn't be thanked, but rather that I thought it was unfair that a certain group was thanked while the others were obviously snubbed, especially when you look at the advice given by everyone. Perhaps I was harsh by judging the value of the advice given by those that she did thank. I don't know what went on in PM land or elsewhere. (By the way, I said SOME people who she thanked, not all.) I still stand that I think it was unfair that others were purposefully snubbed. I understand that the snubbed were snappy about it, but if they were ignored, that means that CSign is a lot less likely to take their advice seriously. And there is a child at stake. I'm kind of annoyed by the whole thing in general, to be frank. Everyone is so snappy at each other. Yes, if you look at this thread ONLY, CSign did not start it, but if you look at the big picture, can't you see why some people are snippy in their responses? Not that I condone it. Only understand why, that is all. I also understand why CSign snubbed certain people, but I think everyone else knows why, too. So that's why I'm just pointing out the not so obvious.

GrendelQ said:
I took csign's very kind thanks to me as being more for my PM to her suggesting which parents were likely to have had direct experience in this matter (PFH and Jillio among a few others) than for any good solid legal or procedural advice given on this thread.
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:) No need to defend yourself. I have a lot of respect for your responses. Including the ones in this thread.

GrendelQ said:
Could be too that some of that advice wrapped in a bit of snappy came -- late, and well after just plain snappiness -- only after some others provided support for Csign's stated actions to date and plan to fight -- and maybe even as a result of some of that support and cajoling to knock off the nastiness and share experience.
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Totally agree with the bolded. I mentioned that they had a bad attitude. Doesn't mean the advice was bad. I don't really count "late" as part of my judgment. I don't think it's fair to say "Oh, you were too late" for an internet forum when people randomly check the threads.
 
Daredevil- I said, "I appreciated responses from some people like..." I listed a few off the top of my head who had bits of insight and support to share. I am not thankful to those who were "mean spirited." Some individuals don't like me, and as a result are snippy and nasty. I did nothing that warranted being insulted, one of the insults which implied that perhaps I don't love my son enough.

People who were rude did that on purpose. They could have just said, "yes, it's his right and no, there is nothing wrong with wanting him to access extra curricular activities." There was no reason for people to be rude- except for they don't like that in some (well, really one) areas they disagree with my line of thinking.
 
There's just so much focus on who is nice and who is rude. All I am saying is.... In the grand scheme of things (your child)... Please don't ignore valuable advice just because the people who gave it don't know how to give it in a nice way or they are just worn out by incredibly defensive parents who automatically get upset at any response that doesn't sound like support.
 
Reba said:
I'm not opposed to technology; I love gadgets and the digital world. However, I'm realistic enough to know it can't solve everything.

Don't forget, interpreting is a two-way street. The interpreter must also be able to put to voice the signing of the deaf student. So voice recognition technology isn't enough. Sign recognition technology would also be necessary. And we're talking about recognizing the signing vocabulary and styles of kids of all ages from all kinds of language backgrounds.
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I know which is why there is a lot of research in that area because it involves spatial recognition by computers.

Modeling animations of American Sign Language verbs through motion-capture of native ASL signers
 
Daredevel7 said:
There's just so much focus on who is nice and who is rude. All I am saying is.... In the grand scheme of things (your child)... Please don't ignore valuable advice just because the people who gave it don't know how to give it in a nice way or they are just worn out by incredibly defensive parents who automatically get upset at any response that doesn't sound like support.
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Good point. A couple of the people who were nastiest also have the most relevant advice and the most targeted expertise in this area. I may object to their approach in getting that info out there, but always value it even if I have to choke down a bit, sometimes a whole lot of meanness.

The bulk of my objection is that all that nastiness is just not necessary, and a whole lot more people would be getting this message if it wasn't always delivered with and nearly obscured by so much crap. There's already enough crap parents of deaf kids have to wade through within the unenlightened world we operate in, seems less than effective to have to wade through it among people who really understand.
 
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